Rings of Power Amazon buys up Middle-earth, it searches the One Ring! (Rings of Power news thread)

[Chen G. 3,943]

Was thinking that.

 

I'm honestly astonished: they had enough time since both the Vanity Fair pieces and the teaser to try and present something that wasn't so self-consciously "high fantasy".

 

But they didn't.

[Holko 9,499]

11 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Elanor

...what

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

...what

 

 

Oh sorry, you might like her more by her pet name...

 

"Nori"

 

There, the writers made it better, right?

 

Right?!

 

Somebody say "Right" !

[Holko 9,499]

who wrote this shit? Why are they legally allowed to hold writing instruments or use text editors?

[Chen G. 3,943]

48 minutes ago, Holko said:

who wrote this shit?

 

Oh, there's more. A lot more!

 

Pharazon's son, Kemen, is in-love with Elendil's daughter, Carine.

 

Durin IV (who's the son of Durin III, don't ask me how) is pissed-off at Elrond for some reason, so they settle it with a rock smashing contest.

 

The Hobbits in question find a man (looking all too much like a certain Grey Wizard) who fell from the sky, Terminator style.

 

There's another tidbit that I'm not sure I can share quite yet.

[Holko 9,499]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

There's another tidbit that I'm not sure I can share quite yet.

Oh you can, this is hilarious!

[Chen G. 3,943]

See this village? Nevermind the characters for a moment, but just the village:

 

 

This is Tirharad: Tir-Harad, which is to say its in Harad, the southlands. Except the lush setting would suggest its not in Harad so much as on the outskirts of Harad. What place on the outskirts of Harad do we know that's important to the stories of the Second Age?

[Holko 9,499]

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

What place on the outskirts of Harad

ooh, I know, Near Harad!

[Chen G. 3,943]

Could be.

 

It could also further up t'north...

[Faleel 5,340]

22 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

 Sadoc Burrow.

Why is this one terrible?

[Chen G. 3,943]

I think the appeal of the Second Age is the appeal of an ancient history period piece or something: archaic and quite cutthroat. These very-modern English names, with their air of the domestic, don't exactly help. They're cloying.

 

Its like if in the middle of Ridley Scott's Gladiator there was shoved a guy named Bob.

 

[Faleel 5,340]

So if it was in the Third Age it wouldn't bother you? (Both Sadoc, and Burrows are names that appear separately in the books IIRC)

14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

 

 

Pharazon's son, Kemen,

Mi-Chel?

[Chen G. 3,943]

11 hours ago, Counterparts said:

So if it was in the Third Age it wouldn't bother you? (Both Sadoc, and Burrows are names that appear separately in the books IIRC)

 

I have a rule I've set for myself regarding adaptations: I will not critique an adaptation except by such critiques that I would have made even had I not known a thing about the source material. And so the fact that all these names do stem from Tolkien's appendices means very little to me. I just care that its cutesy, and I don't think these stories benefit from cutesiness except maybe  a modicum of it early on.

 

For instance, I wouldn't like to have Hobbits in The War of the Rohirrim, either.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I have a rule I've set for myself regarding adaptations: I will not critique an adaptation except by such critiques that I would have made even had I not known a thing about the source material. And so the fact that all these names do stem from Tolkien's appendices means very little to me. I just care that its cutesy, and I don't think these stories benefit from cutesiness except maybe  a modicum of it early on.

 

This doesn't make any sense.  Your expectation that these stories shouldn't be cutesy is itself because of your familiarity with the source material, so this seems circular to me.

[Chen G. 3,943]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Your expectation that these stories shouldn't be cutesy is itself

 

I expect all good stories to eschew the cute.

 

Cutesiness is the enemy of drama.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

15 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I have a rule I've set for myself regarding adaptations: I will not critique an adaptation except by such critiques that I would have made even had I not known a thing about the source material. And so the fact that all these names do stem from Tolkien's appendices means very little to me.

This isn’t adaptation. It’s fan fiction.

 

12 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I expect all good stories to eschew the cute.

 

Cutesiness is the enemy of drama.

 
Baby Yoda would like a word!

[Chen G. 3,943]

Nick, do you have any guess as to where this Tirharad village might be?

 

You'll love the answer, if you can find it!

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

On 03/06/2022 at 4:14 PM, Chen G. said:

Nick, do you have any guess as to where this Tirharad village might be?

 

Dunno. A TV writer's imagination?

 

Someplace south I'd guess, given the name. Númenór? Wherever they put it wouldn't surprise me.

[Chen G. 3,943]

16 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Wherever they put it wouldn't surprise me.

What about Mordor? before it was Mordor?

[Faleel 5,340]

Befordor?

[Chen G. 3,943]

But, if it looks like this before…someone has to turn it to Mordor…

 

That idea scares me.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

What about Mordor? before it was Mordor?

Oh for crying out loud. 

4 hours ago, Counterparts said:

Befordor?

Hodor?

[Chen G. 3,943]

On 05/06/2022 at 3:12 AM, Nick1Ø66 said:

Oh for crying out loud. 

 

See, see? I told you!

 

Some of this stuff will be great to watch with copious amounts of booze.

 

EDIT: Ahem...

 

[mstrox 6,647]

I have near zero familiarity with the source material (I read through the appendices in high school some two decades ago and found them dreadfully dull, can’t tell you a thing about them now).  I’ll be Chen’s adaptation gauge in actual practice.  Although I have no problem with cuteness as an idea

 

it surprises me that “the existence of Hobbits means it will be cute and therefore bad” is coming out of the mouth of a person who already likes at least six movies about Hobbits!

[Chen G. 3,943]

4 minutes ago, mstrox said:

coming out of the mouth of a person who already likes at least six movies about Hobbits!

 

I think exactly because its been done so much (and, I'd argue, so well) I really don't need it in this show. I'd have loved something more Machiavelian, more cutthroat.

[Servant of Morgoth 20]

https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-power-five-seasons-fully-planned-out-exclusive/

"Telling a whole new story in the Second Age of Middle-earth, Prime Video’s streaming series began with its storytellers – including showrunner JD Payne and Patrick McKay, along with executive producer and director JA Bayona – cooking up a full beginning-to-end story. It’s about the destination as well as the journey, and The Rings Of Power is ready to take us there and back again. “We even know what our final shot of the last episode is going to be,” Payne teases to Empire in our world-exclusive cover story. “The rights that Amazon bought were for a 50-hour show. They knew from the beginning that was the size of the canvas – this was a big story with a clear beginning, middle and end. There are things in the first season that don’t pay off until Season 5.”

Across those five seasons, The Rings Of Power will weave a story of Elves, Dwarves, Harfoots and more set against an epic backdrop of major events from the history of Middle-earth – from the forging of the rings, to the rise of Sauron. If the individual plot threads are new, the outline is straight from the source. “It was like Tolkien put some stars in the sky and let us make out the constellations,” Payne explains. “In his letters [particularly in one to his publisher], Tolkien talked about wanting to leave behind a mythology that ‘left scope for other minds and hands, wielding the tools of paint, music and drama.’ We’re doing what Tolkien wanted. As long as we felt like every invention of ours was true to his essence, we knew we were on the right track.”

Get ready for a show, then, that brings fresh ideas, perspectives, characters and more to our screens in a world we’ve long loved – but all in keeping with what its original creator set out. “The pressure would drive us insane if we didn’t feel like there was a story here that didn’t come from us. It comes from a bigger place,” says McKay. “It came from Tolkien and we’re just the stewards of it. We trust those ideas so deeply, because they’re not ours. We’re custodians, at best.” It’s always been clear in the world of The Lord Of The Rings – if you’re going to climb up a mountain that steep with a burden that heavy, you can still make it with the right Fellowship."

 

 

They seem to be very confident. I find some of these statements very bold, almost annoying

What do you think guys?

[Chen G. 3,943]

1 hour ago, Servant of Morgoth said:

They seem to be very confident. I find some of these statements very bold, almost annoying

What do you think guys?

 

I'm good friends with quite a few guys who met the showrunners in London recently, and who's opinions I trust. The overwhelming impression was that the showrunners know their Tolkien very well, and between them and myself, we've had great arguments about whether that's necessarily a good thing, whether what matters is their ability to helm a TV show over their ability to interperate Tolkien, etc...

 

I also thinking listening to an artist talk about the work of art is far less important than looking at the work of art for yourself and seeing what they actually made, as opposed to what they say they made. Some of this stuff: derpy Hobbits with cute English names (and, in one case, a bad Bach wig) transplated into this work, pre-Mordor, a man who literally falls into the show from the sky - that sort of stuff doesn't inspire great confidence in me, personally.

[Barnald 365]

1 hour ago, Servant of Morgoth said:

"We’re doing what Tolkien wanted."

 

Thank God for that. I was worried for a second.

[Brónach 1,301]

I think this is going to suck because of the time compression. I think the way to do this was to make a FANTASY show and let the mortal characters die. Have huge jumps in time. Let the immortal characters be the joining thread. Both kinds of characters could be pov characters, but some die.

 

Then again, I wouldn't have made this in the first place. It's just Amazon wanting mainstream appeal.

 

On 04/06/2022 at 1:10 AM, Nick1Ø66 said:

This isn’t adaptation. It’s fan fiction.

 

Normal people make this and post it Ao3. Less normal people demand huge budgets and are desperate to be taken seriously as "adaptations".

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

 

3 hours ago, Servant of Morgoth said:

They seem to be very confident.

 

So were the French at Agincourt.

[Chen G. 3,943]

I do think Nick, as much as some of these plot developments do really, really, REALLY not inspire confidence, the show deserves - ahead of its airing - all the good faith that this board extends to that slew of Star Wars shows.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I do think Nick, as much as some of these plot developments do really, really, REALLY not inspire confidence, the show deserves - ahead of its airing - all the good faith that this board extends to that slew of Star Wars shows.

 

Indeed. And rest assured, I have the same amount of faith in Rings of Power as I do the new Star Wars shows.

[Barnald 365]

 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised (well, appalled) by anything at this point, but here we are.

[blondheim 1,157]

What's so bad about this one?

 

[Brónach 1,301]

People say he looks too old.

 

I have no idea how the whole elf aging thing works so i don't know

[Chen G. 3,943]

They could make him look younger in the moving picture than they would be inclined to do in a still like this.

 

Also:

 

https://twitter.com/FellowshipFans/status/1534268739167846401/photo/1

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

I'm still hating the title:
The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power

 

Just call it The Rings Of Power

[Chen G. 3,943]

The War of the Rohirrim also didn't really earn the "The Lord of the Rings" title, and neither did half a dozen games that used it.

 

Other than The Hobbit and maybe The Silmarillion, any of the lesser Tolkien titles (or ersatz-Tolkien titles, as the case may be) aren't recognisable enough on their own. Far be it from me to hate on something because of two or three words...

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

 

8 hours ago, blondheim said:

What's so bad about this one?

 

Oh, I don't know. He looks like the stern a**hole headmaster at an all-boys boarding school?

 

8 hours ago, Barnald said:

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised (well, appalled) by anything at this point, but here we are.

 

 

 

 

 

[Faleel 5,340]

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The War of the Rohirrim also didn't really earn the "The Lord of the Rings" title, and neither did half a dozen games that used it.

 

 

Most of the games that used the title were adaptations of the films/books....

 

Third Age, and LOTRO are the only ones I can think of ATM that are "original".

[Brónach 1,301]

14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Also:

 

https://twitter.com/FellowshipFans/status/1534268739167846401/photo/1

 

pretty, appears to be that scene from the trailer

[Chen G. 3,943]

It is.

 

I'm warming up the pre-Raphaelite imagery for Lindon.

[Brónach 1,301]

so what are our guesses on the man falling from the sky like the Transformers?

On 10/05/2022 at 11:42 AM, Chen G. said:

 

I know of at least three whose responses were a bit ambivalent.

 they only saw twenty minutes. maybe they're afraid of showing more?

On 23/02/2022 at 9:43 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

What's ironic about this is, they all claim to be "Superfans", and call Tolkien's work "progressive", yet lament that lack of representation and diversity in his work. Which makes you wonder how they became "Superfans" in the first place if they found so little to relate to.

 

There are several ways of relating. I don't particularly lament anything.

On 14/02/2022 at 7:06 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

That said, I personally wish they'd gone with a completely different visual aesthetic. I love Jackson's vision, but it is, after all, only one interpretation. There are countless artists who have shown us there are any number of ways to portray Tolkien's world, and seeing something new and unique (rather than a slick copy that can never live up to the "original") would have been nice.  

 

I'm actually disappointed that any whenever any Tolkienish fanwork or adaptation is meant to tie into those movies somehow.

On 11/02/2022 at 6:32 PM, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

The thing is, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are first and foremost singular works of literature. Works of literature that Peter Jackson made very successful direct adaptations of (especially in the case of LOTR).

 

But in my judgement, as much as I love all his books, the ability to expand the rest of Tolkien's legendarium in film and television, beyond those stories, and create a kind of MCU/Star Wars "shared universe" (which make no mistake, is what they want to do) has been greatly overestimated. And I also tend to doubt the appeal of these kinds of stories to the general public is what they presume it will be.  I think people love the Jackson films, but do I think there's big hunger among the average viewer to see more Middle-Earth on screen? I'm not sure about that. And given that there's deep skepticism about this project among fans of the book, I'm not sure who the audience is. In a way it's akin to Fantastic Beasts...who's really fan of that series? And those movies at least have the involvement and blessing of the author.  

 

That said, Amazon will likely regard it as a success no matter what, since it will bring a lot of attention to Prime Video, no matter how many viewers they retain after what I'm sure will be a massive audience the first couple weeks. But I do wonder if whoever ends up buying the film rights to the books from Zaentz might not end up overpaying. Beyond remaking The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings (they are, after all, the only novels in the series), which will happen eventually, I'm not sure where else there is to go with this, especially given that little of what will end up on the screen will actually be Tolkien.

 

People in suits with a feeling of overimportance often misunderstand that people might be enjoying the vibes, the themes, the aesthetics or the style or something, (often the first two), and assume people must want only more of exactly that, instead of other things.

 

The most Tolkienish thing I've read in the last years that actually has the vibes (whitout elaborating on what those are here) without copying badly the aesthetic surface for no reason (which is what people generally try to do) is a comic series for kids called Mouse Guard. Not that it actually needs adapting. I don't think Amazon executives could ever put those two and two together so here we are.

[Chen G. 3,943]

49 minutes ago, Brónach said:

so what are our guesses on the man falling from the sky like the Transformers?

 

Reportedly, one of these two, and I'm not sure which of the two options is worst:

 

[Servant of Morgoth 20]

On 09/06/2022 at 5:56 AM, Chen G. said:

 

 

One of these two.

If Meteor Man is a Balrog I think we'll see him destroy the kingdom of Moria. 

The problem is this event happen only in the Third Age(1980) and this means another red flag for the show. Gandal arrives in Middle Earth on a ship also around 1000TA. So here there is no lesser evil to choose

[Chen G. 3,943]

Yeah, the Balrog thing checks-out as a way of providing closure to the Moria storyline. It requires bending the time-frame, but they're already doing this with the Second Age, so who's to say they won't poach a millennia or so off of the third?

 

Its stupid as hell, of course, but at the same time, having him be Gandalf is just as cloying: we have a fem-Frodo in Elanor, a fem-Sam in her buddy Poppy, the equivalent of the elderly Bilbo in Sadoc, and the younger couple are clearly going to go on an adventure with this guy.

 

Everything about the Hobbit storyline is just off. This should have been a cuthroat Machiavelian thriller, not yet another cross-country quest story.

 

Both are just theories, I hasten to add. But they're probably the most likely ones.

[Servant of Morgoth 20]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, the Balrog thing checks-out as a way of providing closure to the Moria storyline. It requires bending the time-frame, but they're already doing this with the Second Age, so who's to say they won't poach a millennia or so off of the third?

 

Its stupid as hell, of course, but at the same time, having him be Gandalf is just as cloying: we have a fem-Frodo in Elanor, a fem-Sam in her buddy Poppy, the equivalent of the ancient Bilbo in Sadoc, and the younger couple are clearly going to go on an adventure with this guy.

 

Everything about the Hobbit storyline is just off. This should have been a cuthroat Machiavelian thriller, not yet another cross-country quest story.

If they can bend the time-frame to such extent I refuse to imagine what they can do with the canonical events of the SA like the real purpose behind the forging of the rings, the war of Elves and Sauron, the Last Alliance, the Tolkienish's reason behind the moral decline of Numenor, the characterisation of characters like Elendil or Isildur or men in general. I wonder if Tolkien Estate just sold the rights washing their hands about Amazon and the people in charge of this tv adaptation breaking the Lore

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

6 minutes ago, Servant of Morgoth said:

I wonder if Tolkien Estate just sold the rights washing their hands about breaking the Lore

 

The Tolkien Estate are involved in the creative process insofar as they have veto rights. It seems they were just willing to play ball...

 

I think there will come a day when fans will note the irony of how films once decried in some circles for their relative lack of faithfulness to the books, made without the involvement or approval of the Estate and in fact done much to Christopher Tolkien's chagrin, were in fact more faithful than a series made with the approval and involvement of the Tolkien estate. This is all the more ironic since some people believe (falsly) that any changes made in adapting The Lord of the Rings would have been unnecessary if it were a TV series.

[Servant of Morgoth 20]

15 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

The Tolkien Estate are involved in the creative process insofar as they have veto rights. It seems they were just willing to play ball...

 

I think there will come a day when fans will note the irony of how films once decried in some circles for their relative lack of faithfulness to the books, made without the involvement or approval of the Estate and in fact done much to Christopher Tolkien's chagrin, were in fact more faithful than a series made with the approval and involvement of the Tolkien estate. This is all the more ironic since some people believe (falsly) that any changes made in adapting The Lord of the Rings would have been unnecessary if it were a TV series.

I think there is a big chance I will regret the adaptations of Jackson(despite all the changes he made and all the flaws of his six movies)

I really hope not to but I see already a lot of potentially red flags and we're talking only about the first among five seasons( that we have yet to see btw)

[Brónach 1,301]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Reportedly, one of these two, and I'm not sure which of the two options is worst:

 

 

Oh, I did think they were doing THIS, but I thought Meteor Man could be the guy in white

 

I'm not against Meteor Man, it's just these three options feel silly to me

57 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Everything about the Hobbit storyline is just off. This should have been a cuthroat Machiavelian thriller, not yet another cross-country quest story.

 

Given that it doesn't really work as an adaptation (because they're changing what is there to use with the time compression), it's unclear to me that this should be this or that specifically