Rian Johnson developing a fourth Star Wars trilogy... Oh my..

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Was Snyder in charge of the story at all in those movies or did he just direct whatever script they plonked in front of him?

[Edmilson 7,448]

If I'm not mistaken, Lucasfilm made the announcement that Patty Jenkins would direct their next movie when WW84 still had about 80% on Rotten Tomatoes. It was just a few days later that most people came to the conclusion that that movie... is not very good.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

Wow, only 5,4 on IMDB!

[mstrox 6,651]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

Don't worry, it's a Zack Snyder film, so all the skyscrapers will be collapsing into a 16:9 friendly format.

 

This is a good joke!

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

Apparently it's an unwritten rule in Hollywood that all comic book films have to devolve into a lazy CGI fight scene for their last act.

 

The first Wonder Woman was the same way, although I liked that one well enough.  I look forward to catching 84 at some point.

[A24 4,333]

No wonder you guys don't like Snyder, you love Wonder Woman!

 

 

 

(which Snyder produced, BTW)

 

 

 

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 minute ago, AC1 said:

No wonder you guys don't like Snyder, you love Wonder Woman!

 

 

 

(which Snyder produced, BTW)

 

 

 

 

So we can blame the mess that was the 3rd act on him?

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

25 minutes ago, AC1 said:

No wonder you guys don't like Snyder, you love Wonder Woman!

I like neither. WW84 is to me the dumbest superhero movie ever, even dumber than Suicide Squad, the last Fantastic Four or Howard the Duck! Now Snyder's movie look all ugly to me (but that's just me).

I think the best thing that could happen to DC or Star Wars is to forget about those two directors who better should do their own projects with their peculiar vision to avoid abominable cuts from the studio and hate from the fan of those univers at each release.

[Jay 37,364]

I didn't like either Wonder Woman movie

[A24 4,333]

I just regained my faith in JWFan.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I like the first one pretty well, some cool scenes and nice characters.  Haven't seen the second after the bad buzz.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Great legs

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, AC1 said:

I just regained my faith in JWFan.

 

You're clearly just sexist!

[Holko 9,526]

WW is the only DCEU movie I tried to watch. Shut it off before they even got off the island.

 

Glad that Rian's trilogy is not out the window, his contribution was by far the most interesting and worthwile in the new lineup of stuff.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He makes woke shit for twits

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The misogyny of JWFan is glaring.  You all need to publicly apologize, promise to listen to women, and clap emoji DO clap emoji THE clap emoji WORK

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, Disco Stu said:

promise to listen to women

 

How? They keep running away

[Edmilson 7,448]

I like the first WW movie. Now I'm immune to cancellation on Twitter!

 

But please, don't ask my opinion on Captain Marvel

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

The misogyny of JWFan is glaring.  You all need to publicly apologize, promise to listen to women, and clap emoji DO clap emoji THE clap emoji WORK

I don't intend  to be misogynist here. I just find that they sell a bit to much Gal Gadot's legs just see the poster (used with Zimmer's sketches too), the party scene focused on her legs (and there is one in each movie where she appears) and on... I'm thinking the same way about Hemsworth's great abs in Thor. Now some actors are just a bit too much sexualised by the directors, that's Gadot and Hemsworth case both can't make a movie without a large shot on their legs or abs.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I like her feet

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Shut it off before they even got off the island.

Yeah. The 1st and 3rd acts were shite. I saw it in the cinema or like you I’d probably have shut it off too. 
 

the middle of it was great though! Even it did feel like they were basically doing The First Avenger but in WW1.

 

The final 1/3 was a predictable CGI monstrosity. 
 

It’s not the worst thing I’ve ever seen but it is a thing I’ve seen .

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

The misogyny of JWFan is glaring.  You all need to publicly apologize, promise to listen to women, and clap emoji DO clap emoji THE clap emoji WORK

 

Indeed!

[Holko 9,526]

36 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

It’s not the worst thing I’ve ever seen but it is a thing I’ve seen .

That was my feeling and I just had zero interest in watching more meh stuff just to watch them after finally deciding to just stop trying to care about the MCU.

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

I agree with Bill that it's the WWI element that makes this movie watchable.

[Pellaeon 593]

I expect the Rian Johnson movies never materialize. I guess it’s possible they do materialize, down the road, amidst a sea of other Star Wars movies. I’m sure the TLJ fans would like that, and the rest of the fandom wouldn’t mind so much, as long as they could easily ignore them, and they were not seen to be carrying the torch of the franchise. But why make movies you are certain half your base will ignore or hate? Hence it is more likely IMO that they will remain a glint on the horizon, permanently, just as a signal to RJ fans, to try to keep them in the fold.

[mstrox 6,651]

I give it even odds.  LFL is not afraid to drop something that isn't working, as we've seen, and this is only the development phase.  

[TSMefford 1,509]

I'm a fan of the first Wonder Woman with the exception of the third act, which is still not the worst thing I've ever seen by any means, but it sticks out amid the rest of the movie. The rest of the movie I thought was great. Wonder Woman is top of my list for the current crop of DC films. Shazam is up there too. I haven't seen 1984 or Aquaman.

 

As far as the Snyder films. Batman V Superman did the impossible of elevating Man of Steel a bit for me. Man of Steel is still dumb and ridiculous and I hated it when it came out, but it's a lot simpler and easier to swallow than BvS. I found BvS to be an extremely convoluted and exhausting mess of a movie. The amount of plotlines and characters throughout is utterly ridiculous and unnecessary in a movie called Batman V Superman. It was boring, overly long, and one of the worst Snyder films I've ever seen. And, contrary to what a lot of people believe, the Ultimate Edition is even worse. I expect more of the same from his Justice League. I can see why people like his style, but that aside, there are some objectively stupid moments in those films. The theatrical cut of Justice League is also a mess, but a different kind of mess trying to be two things at once and failing at both. It's not enough Snyder to have a cohesive (but greatly flawed) Snyder film and it's not enough Whedon to be his movie either. It's abysmal.

 

As far as the actual topic of the thread: I hope Rian Johnson does get his trilogy and I say that as someone who did not care for The Last Jedi, which I think is a horrid sequel to Force Awakens, while not necessarily being a bad movie. I loved Force Awakens and wanted more of that, but Rian Johnson wanted to "subvert expectations" and essentially throw most of what Force Awakens appears to be leading to in the garbage. I think that was the wrong move for a sequel and only serves to make the sequel trilogy as a whole feel even more disjointed and lack any cohesion it could've had. There's nothing wrong with doing things differently in a sequel or even to go another direction, but it's another thing to ignore the previous film almost completely.

 

All that being said, especially after seeing Knives Out and having some distance from the sequel trilogy and thinking about Last Jedi on it's own, Rian Johnson is a talented dude and makes (and writes) great movies. The Last Jedi has some interesting ideas and I actually like the Rey and Kylo material a lot. I also like the shades of grey he introduces to the two sides. I also am totally fine with Luke feeling defeated and bitter. And I think he could make an incredible trilogy if he is the one to plan the story for all three movies. When he tells a complete story, it's great, but I don't like him coming into the middle and shaking things up to a point that it doesn't make sense.

 

I think if he can plan an overall series of films that, as a whole, subverts expectations then it could be the breath of fresh air Star Wars needs. However, I do not want to see any more with the Skywalkers, Vader, and especially the damn Emperor. That's done. Let it be done. 

[Holko 9,526]

14 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

The Last Jedi, which I think is a horrid sequel to Force Awakens, while not necessarily being a bad movie. I loved Force Awakens and wanted more of that, but Rian Johnson wanted to "subvert expectations" and essentially throw most of what Force Awakens appears to be leading to in the garbage. (...)but it's another thing to ignore the previous film almost completely.

...how? where?

 

14 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

only serves to make the sequel trilogy as a whole feel even more disjointed and lack any cohesion it could've had.

That's TROS, that's the one actively throwing away or undoing things TLJ did, like Luke. And it doesn't attempt any proper cohesion either. TLJ picks up all the characters where they left off, or if in its ADD rush the way too shallow TFA didn't bother to give them any real arc like Poe any real depth of character like Rey, it gives them one or at least very much attempts to succeed in it.

 

I highly highly recommend these two absolutely excellent videos.

 

[Edmilson 7,448]

13 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

As far as the Snyder films. Batman V Superman did the impossible of elevating Man of Steel a bit for me. Man of Steel is still dumb and ridiculous and I hated it when it came out, but it's a lot simpler and easier to swallow than BvS. I found BvS to be an extremely convoluted and exhausting mess of a movie. The amount of plotlines and characters throughout is utterly ridiculous and unnecessary in a movie called Batman V Superman. It was boring, overly long, and one of the worst Snyder films I've ever seen. And, contrary to what a lot of people believe, the Ultimate Edition is even worse. I expect more of the same from his Justice League. I can see why people like his style, but that aside, there are some objectively stupid moments in those films. The theatrical cut of Justice League is also a mess, but a different kind of mess trying to be two things at once and failing at both. It's not enough Snyder to have a cohesive (but greatly flawed) Snyder film and it's not enough Whedon to be his movie either. It's abysmal.

 

 

I agree with this part of your post, lol. I can't believe there's people to this day defending Batman v Superman, that movie is an abomination. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 hours ago, Holko said:

if in its ADD rush the way too shallow TFA didn't bother

 

The Force Awakens is fast-paced, but I wouldn't call it "ADD rush." That's very much reserved to The Rise of Skywalker.

 

Lets not pretend that The Force Awakens is now a bad movie just because its director also churned out The Rise of Skywalker. The Force Awakens is NOT that movie. It is enjoyable and it is well-told.

 

I'm kind of in between, but for the most part I find it the strongest entry in the trilogy, and the proverbial "best since Empire."

[SilverTrumpet 638]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

The Force Awakens is fast-paced, but I wouldn't call it "ADD rush." That's very much reserved to The Rise of Skywalker.

 

Lets not pretend that The Force Awakens is now a bad movie just because its director also churned out The Rise of Skywalker. The Force Awakens is NOT that movie. It is enjoyable and it is well-told.

 

I'm kind of in between, but for the most part I find it the strongest entry in the trilogy.

 

It definitely has flaws, but it's the absolute best possible movie they could have made. 

[Holko 9,526]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The Force Awakens is fast-paced, but I wouldn't call it "ADD rush."

You're right, let's settle down and tal- OH SHIT, ACTION SCENE! Whew, thag was close. Now where were we, let' have a conversatiin with dep- ACTION SCENE! BIG ESCAPE! Ok, let's settle down now. And say nithing but gigantkc cliches. Ok? Bored enough, audience? OK, now ACTION. OK, you can go home now.

 

It's too afraid to really commit to most things or have depth and falls back on just having a chase or imitating OT things.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Some of us rather like action sequences in our action-adventure movies...

[TSMefford 1,509]

10 hours ago, Holko said:

 

That's TROS, that's the one actively throwing away or undoing things TLJ did, like Luke. And it doesn't attempt any proper cohesion either. TLJ picks up all the characters where they left off, or if in its ADD rush the way too shallow TFA didn't bother to give them any real arc like Poe any real depth of character like Rey, it gives them one or at least very much attempts to succeed in it.

 

I highly highly recommend these two absolutely excellent videos.

 

 

To be clear. I don't like Rise of Skywalker either and yes, it also contributes to the lack of cohesion in the series. Yes, it does ignore what TLJ did, which was also the wrong move. I don't see how me criticizing The Last Jedi is saying that Rise of Skywalker isn't also all those things. I agree with the sentiments expressed in the last couple other posts that Force Awakens is the best of the new series (personally, I find the pacing quite good and works just fine. Faster paced doesn't mean it's bad if it works... unlike RoS) and I certainly think the Last Jedi ignores a lot of what I was picking up as being set-up or foreshadowed in The Force Awakens. Now, this is just my opinion, mind you. Some people seem to feel it works just fine, but there are some things that don't sit right with me. Like, you said, it does pick up all the characters where they left off, which makes some of the new found character traits so... jarring to me.

• Luke Skywalker: Despite this being here, I actually like how Luke ends up being in Last Jedi. I think it's far more interesting for his character to be this way, but I still can't say that it makes sense after the events of The Force Awakens. There's so much build up to finding Luke and showing off that island and how mystical and seemingly important it is in Force Awakens. Plus, why would Luke leave a map to his location in R2 if he seemingly didn't want to be found? (Never mind, the map was to the temple, not to Luke) I guess I was picking up things in Force Awakens that the reason Luke was on the island was more pivotal, but he's just kind of there in Last Jedi from what I recall. I don't remember him being there with a specific purpose besides dying alone, but I could be wrong (haven't seen the film in awhile). The subversion is interesting, but it doesn't mean it works.
• General Hux: What the hell happened to Hux? I legitimately found him capable of being kind of intimidating and devoted to the cause in Force Awakens. In Last Jedi, not only does he now look goofy as hell, but they also made him goofy. Suddenly, he is Kylo Ren's pouty punching bag and a complete coward. It's extremely jarring.
• Poe: Admittedly we didn't get a ton from him in Force Awakens, but what we did get was that he was a good pilot and a good member of the Resistence. He was greatly trusted by Leia, follow Resistance, and was shown to have no issues following orders and leading the pack. In Last Jedi, he's now instantly shown as wreckless, defies orders, has his leadership qualities go to his head, and stages a coup? Sure, he thought he was doing the right thing, but...seems like a weird switch to me.
• Finn: Utterly wasted in this movie and in Rise of Skywalker. In Force Awakens, he is shown to want to flee over and over again, he runs from the Stormtroopers and also tries to flee again when they're at Maz's, but (through motivation of Rey) finds a reason to stay and confronts Kylo and helps the resistance. Last Jedi starts and he wants to run away again. Most likely to find Rey, but still. Has he not overcome this yet? I've some argue that in The Force Awakens he connected to Rey and in Last Jedi he now has to connect to the movement itself, but...I don't know it just feels like repeating his story from Force Awakens again, slightly differently. Also he goes from not believing in the movement to being ready to die for it in one movie? Just feels weird man. Finn's Rise of Skywalker story still sucks, but with the allusion to him helping start a Stormtrooper uprising would've been a great story for the middle film with it happening in the third. They could've gone anywhere with his character after Force Awakens and he just feels so lost in both of the other films.

I'd say that Rey and Kylo still feel mostly consistent, even though I really hate that he seemed to "ship" them. Oh, with the exception though that they allude to Rey being so important in Force Awakens and being "someone" that the reveal in Last Jedi feels like it doesn't quite make sense / fulfilling? Like I like the idea of our hero not being connected to anyone, but clearly they were implying something from Force Awakens. I don't believe for a second that they actually had a plan for who she was necessarily, but to just ignore the build up seems...wrong.

 

I'm all for subverting expectations, but the switches in Last Jedi feel too sudden and don't quite come about naturally or make total sense to me. I think if Johnson could control the full narrative he could take some of these cool themes and ideas and make them feel natural and much more developed. I totally get why people like the movie. I really do, but I loved Force Awakens and Last Jedi honestly just wasn't a fulfilling follow up for me. That doesn't make it a bad movie, but I do think the reason for that is at least partially to do with subverting expectations from the start and with almost every storyline. There's nothing wrong with a little predictability, especially if it's really cool and it makes sense, but subverting my expectations rings even more sour for me when it doesn't make sense. 

 

Also, god DAMNIT why can't I be more succinct? I should just delete all of this TBH.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Don't delete it @TSMefford! Good points, all.

 

Yavar

[Holko 9,526]

6 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 I guess I was picking up things in Force Awakens that the reason Luke was on the island was more pivotal, but he's just kind of there in Last Jedi from what I recall. I don't remember him being there with a specific purpose besides dying alone,

I guess it's not the most strongly communicated part but the first Jedi Temple's there, he wants to burn it down and get rid of it all once and for all but fails to go through with it, supposedly multiple times, like just before Rey arrives, which is why he has his ceremonial robe on.

 

6 hours ago, TSMefford said:

showing off that island and how mystical and seemingly important it is in Force Awakens (...) The subversion is interesting

Are the temple in the mountain cave, the tree with the books, the dark side cave not mystical, are the first Jedi texts not important? I'm not really seeing the "subversion" here. You say you like Luke being what he is so you're probably not in the group who expected that he was there to find some Ultra-Force Weapon to just kill the entire FO with.

 

6 hours ago, TSMefford said:

Poe:

Well, it's not like we saw that much of him in TFA (they didn't even keep him alive originally) so I have no problem with this "switch" when it leads to him having an arc (learning that true leadership is more than heroics and bravado, you have to know when not to fight too) and supporting the themes.

 

6 hours ago, TSMefford said:

but (through motivation of Rey) finds a reason to stay and confronts Kylo and helps the resistance.

He also lies to the Resistance and pretty much dooms them completely just to get Rey. They only survive because of Han's improvisational abilities, which Finn goes along with because what else is he going to do, he saw that Rey is handling herself just fine. He also only confronts Kylo because Rey's in danger. It's not really like Han actively choosing to come back and help the cause, more like the place where he is right after they escape the DS and before he talks to Leia, just with a better core motivation, a friend instead of money.

 

Rey not being somebody: sure they may have planned something or not, but JJ got cold feet and cut most of it so most of those allusions are just characters asking "who is she?" which in retrospect works fine for me as them just wondering who this intriguing unknown is. Maz even tells her the belonging she seeks is not behind her.

 

I guess the best excuse I could make for Hux is that he's been through the ringer, saw his faction succeed but then fail almost instantly, their secret work crumble and power shaken, bags under his eyes from lack of sleep - I guess in TFA he has a plan and strong foundation he trusts, but after Starkiller just blows up and especially when Snoke's killed, he's out of his element?

 

Thanks for actually writing these out and mostly not just regurgitating the general shit the echochambers are repeating! Maybe said "subvert expectations" a bit too many times. Thing is, IMO, he's either not subverting as many expectations as people say (like the depressed middle-age hero who has to be called back, the forgotten and less depicted part of the Hero's Journey like the TLJ video I linked nicely explains, you're the one at fault if you thought he'd come back and cut down the whole FO instantly (not you, a hypothetical "you")), or when he does, it's not just for the sake of pulling a sneaky on the audience, he subverts characters' expectations too to put them through hard times so they can come out stronger, and to communicate the theme of failure and dealing with it. And unfortunately all he did would be a lot stronger if tros mostly didn't shit all over it but followed its lead.

[A24 4,333]

On 2/17/2021 at 12:34 PM, AC1 said:

 

Skyscrapers are too tall for 16:9.

 

Hehehe, I just read an interview with Peter Hyams:

 

Quote

 

I remember sitting with Steven Spielberg, who I think is nothing short of brilliant, and he was making Jurassic Park. And he was making it in 1:85, as opposed to 2:35 Panavision. And because it was such a big film and such a big subject, I said, “Steven, why are you doing it in 1:85?” And he looked at me like I’m the dummy that I am and said, “because dinosaurs are tall!”

And I went, “Oh shit. Yeah!” [Laughs] That’s why he’s Steven Spielberg.

 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Meh. There's this story about how "Waterworld" shot 1.85 because sailing boats are tall, but meanwhile Sir Ridley Scott shot "White Squall" in 2.40...

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

These guys should have shot in portrait mode.

[Jay 37,364]

Rian Johnson’s Star Wars Trilogy Has Been Delayed at Lucasfilm

[Disco Stu 15,495]

From Kennedy's quote in the Vanity Fair article, it's clearly been killed and no party is mad about it (since RJ's got that Netflix money).

[Jay 37,364]

Yep

[Jurassic Shark 12,076]

It would have been the most subversive of trilogies.

[Smeltington 1,440]

Instead, it was the most subverted trilogy.

[Bespin 8,481]

This new trilogy was simply announced too quickly after "The Last Jedi" was released (EDIT: or announced, anyway...)... All the weaknesses of "The Last Jedi" were revealed by all the catching up required in "Rise of Skywalker" to try to close the trilogy.

 

Now that the Saga is over, TLJ looks a bit like a poor child. This is an episode that goes in all directions, except forward.

 

At the end, I think the franchise is already scattered in all directions, without requiring Johnson’s help!

[Holko 9,526]

12 minutes ago, Bespin said:

All the weaknesses of "The Last Jedi" were revealed by all the catching up required in "Rise of Skywalker" to try to close the trilogy.

All the catching up wouldn't have been "required" if 9 didn't try to undo 8 and redo it with a bunch of bullshit.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

16 minutes ago, Bespin said:

This new trilogy was simply announced too quickly after "The Last Jedi" was released

 

It was announced before! 

[Bespin 8,481]

20 hours ago, Holko said:

All the catching up wouldn't have been "required" if 9 didn't try to undo 8 and redo it with a bunch of bullshit.

 

The Saga ended the only way it could have ended:

• Palpatine who was the evil mastermind, the puppet master from the beginning (I really mean of the 9 f***ing movies!) had to be destroyed
• The "Skywalker" entity had to be destroyed too (Anakin and all his descendants)

[Edmilson 7,448]

Rian is probably happier with his Knives Out sequels, and with the fact that he doesn't need to deal with crazy psychotic Star Wars diehards on Twitter.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

On 14/05/2021 at 9:45 AM, Chen G. said:

Meh. There's this story about how "Waterworld" shot 1.85 because sailing boats are tall, but meanwhile Sir Ridley Scott shot "White Squall" in 2.40...

MASTER AND COMMANDER works just fine, in 2.35.

[Tom 4,658]

3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It would have been the most subversive of trilogies.

He would have subverted his own subvertedness, leading to an ernest movie about good heroes and bad villians.