Rian Johnson developing a fourth Star Wars trilogy... Oh my..

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I wasn't going to go into this any further because I'm not really trying to change your mind, only communicate why the story choices about Luke work for me. But as you've asked me direct questions I'll answer the best I can.

 

22 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Do you think it makes sense for the character of Luke to harbour zero doubt towards the vision he had when he reached into Ben’s mind?

 

I'll repeat that the brevity of the sequence of events is what is important here - Luke reacts before he can think rationally about what he has seen. Harbouring doubt implies processing what he has seen, which he can't do because thought processing is a higher brain function that occurs after a traumatic or stressful incident. What Luke thinks of the vision after the fact isn't explicitly stated, he only tells us how it made him feel. But to me the implication is that much of his guilt stems from the idea that the vision came to pass because of how he reacted - in essence he feels like he caused it. He eventually absolves himself of a lot of this guilt (with crucial help from Rey and Leia), accepting that Snoke is the ultimate reason Ben turned, while importantly still owning up to his wrongdoing by sacrificing himself to save the Rebellion in an act of penance. None of this is at all contradictory to Luke as a character, unless you view Luke as not having any human flaws and weaknesses to begin with.

 

 

22 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Was Luke in a similar enough circumstance to when he was on the Death Star II in conflict with the Emperor and his father as he was when he was in that room with Ben sleeping, to be able to say that his actions are comparable?

 

The physical circumstances of each scene are different, but the essence is the same. While in an already heightened state and dealing with a complex combination of emotions, Luke is told something that causes him to react emotionally and violently. On the Death Star he is mid-battle, being stalked by his father, full of adrenaline and fear, but also trying to focus on the compassion he feels for Vader when the provocation occurs. In TLJ he is already visibly unsettled and afraid of what senses from Ben, even before he reaches out and the vision occurs. His mental state before each incident is every bit as important as what happens after.

 

I know I'm getting a bit psychological here, but that's what the film is inviting us to do - to try and understand what is going through Luke's head in this moment and how he processes it after the fact. In my view this is very well communicated in the film, but that effectiveness is obviously subjective.

[Chen G. 3,944]

5 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Luke condemns the Jedi for being hypocritical and full of hubris for...getting defeated by one of the most cunning and powerful Sith to have ever lived? We know there's more to that story because of the Prequels, but in the context of the movie and Luke's understanding of what happened it's a caricature that places the blame for their defeat solely on the Jedi.

 

Well, that quote of Luke's is a kind of retcon of the prequel trilogy that frames the Jedi as flawed: I don't think Lucas was writing the prequel trilogy thinking the Jedi are particularly flawed. I think he gave Yoda and Windu and Obi Wan lines which he thought were really cool zen kind of things, but which to a western, 21st century audience came-off alienating.

 

Rian Johnson tried to recontextualize the whole thing which, to be fair, is something this series had always been doing. We can argue how succesful it is or isn't, but I don't think it sheds any more light on Luke's conduct. I think feeling responsible for the deaths of who-knows how many teenage students who are under your care is enough to send anyone into seclusion.

[Holko 9,499]

That quote is said by a Luke who already had years to fume about all this past he only had secondhand accounts about, with nobody there to put it all in context for him. He's wrong and changes by the end. Why is this so complicated

 

 

 

Also why can Beowulf kill Grendel and hi smother and rule a kingdom but die while killing the dragon. How can Arthur lose his throne and get a mortal wound getting it back after so many successes and growth. why are these monomyth writers attacking the monomyth

[Chen G. 3,944]

13 minutes ago, Holko said:

He's wrong and changes by the end.

 

I think the movie would have been more interesting if he wasn't wrong.

[Pellaeon 593]

Serious question. Is the title, The Last Jedi, an allusion to The Last Ringbearer?

[mstrox 6,647]

I always assumed it was a reference to The Last of the Famous International Playboys

[DarthDementous 1,059]

20 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

Serious question. Is the title, The Last Jedi, an allusion to The Last Ringbearer?

I think it’s a toss-up between this part of TFA’s title crawl:

”Skywalker, the last Jedi, has vanished!”

 

Or from the old expanded universe book with the same name. Rian has posted screenshots of books from the old expanded universe so it’s definitely not far fetched

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yeah, I mean The Last [insert noun here] is a pretty common genre/fantasy title. Off the top of my head:

 

The Last Airbender

The Last of the Mohicans

The Last of Us

The Last Samurai

Last of the Timelords

etc

 

It's an evocative way to title a story and says a lot without needing many words. But I suppose it's very likely Johnson came across it a few times when researching for the film and it stuck in his head as being a good summation of the themes in his film.

[mstrox 6,647]

It’s also dialogue from the movie

[Edmilson 7,398]

Funnily enough, here in Brazil (and I think in some other countries too), the title of the movie was in the plural: "Os Últimos Jedi". Apparently, the translators working for Disney didn't know if "The Last Jedi" meant just one Jedi or more than one, so they chose to put in plural. If I remember correctly, Johnson was pretty upset with that, as it was supposed to be just one last Jedi (at least at the beginning of the movie).

[Jay 37,322]

Star Wars: Rian Johnson Says His Trilogy Will Feel Like Star Wars But in a Way That's New and Fresh

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

More star wars with shitty music then. Though he seemed to love Williams. Maybe there is hope and he changes other thing instead of the music...

[Edmilson 7,398]

22 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

More star wars with shitty music then. Though he seemed to love Williams. Maybe there is hope and he changes other thing instead of the music...

The most likely is that, if this trilogy actually happens (and I personally don't think it will), then Nathan Johnson will be the composer.

[Steffromuk 386]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

Star Wars: Rian Johnson Says His Trilogy Will Feel Like Star Wars But in a Way That's New and Fresh

Does he mean like ANDOR? Cause, to me, that the only new and fresh thing that happened in the SW franchise since a long time ago...

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

Guys, guys, you don't have to watch it.

 

WHAT THE HELL AM I SAYING???!!! IT'S FUCKING STAR WARS!!!!!

[Andy 4,090]

If you read the whole of his comments, I think his intentions are spot on. 
 

I’m beginning to think that it may not be possible to please fans young and old, the way Star Wars used to.   I hope I’m wrong though, because I really want to have some super fun space adventure that makes me feel good. 

[Positivatee 327]

We do not necessarily need episodic Star Wars movies. We need fresh, bold, mature storytelling, in whatever format that can use. 

[Jay 37,322]

Yes

[Andy 4,090]

Has Star Wars always been mature?  Does it need to be?  Some things in the original film could be considered juvenile. 

[Faleel 5,340]

2 minutes ago, Andy said:

Does it need to be? 

Like a fine wine

[Andy 4,090]

Kids probably don’t think so. 

[Faleel 5,340]

4 minutes ago, Andy said:

Kids probably don’t think so. 

[Edmilson 7,398]

I want a Star Wars movie that is a R-Rated sex comedy filled with crude jokes comparing lightsabers to penis.

[mstrox 6,647]

YES!  I think you’re joking but I want Star Wars movies in every genre

[ocelot 508]

I would actually love Rian Johnson to do a Star Wars trilogy, loved The Last Jedi, but I think I should score his trilogy dammit!!!!! lol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I want a Star Wars movie that is a R-Rated sex comedy filled with crude jokes comparing lightsabers to penis.

SPACEBALLS 

[GerateWohl 4,343]

The Star Wars franchise might be slowly getting back into shape. But in the music department they are more and more losing track. That part is unfortunately in bad condition. And there is no glimpse of hope for improvement. It is rather getting worse.

Meanwhile I even think, If they gave the next Star Wars assignment to Hans Zimmer it might even be an improvement to the current situation. His franchise contributions for Bond and Bladerunner stayed at least true to the original sound.

And usually I don't like his music. But I am desperate in that regard.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

...I even think, If they gave the next Star Wars assignment to Hans Zimmer...

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

I can’t believe anyone actually thinks another Rian Johnson Star Wars movie is ever going to happen.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I don't want any Star Wars movies for a good while longer.  I think even the currently planned 2025 is too soon.  Wait until 2029, give 10 years for the environment to rebound after the toxic disaster of TROS

[Edmilson 7,398]

Yeah. Star Wars is not like Marvel with its 3 or 4 movies per year. It needs some time to breathe.

 

Unfortunately, I think Disney execs' thought is the exact opposite of this. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't want any Star Wars movies for a good while longer.  I think even the currently planned 2025 is too soon.  Wait until 2029, give 10 years for the environment to rebound after the toxic disaster of TROS TLJ.

 

Stu, where's your profile artwork from?

[Jay 37,322]

Just now, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Stu, where's your profile artwork from?

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12247-explain-your-avatar/&do=findComment&comment=1921770

[1977 1,743]

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Wait until 2029, give 10 years for the environment to rebound after the toxic disaster of TROS TLJ Disney Star Wars.

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I just plain disagree on that since I love Rogue One, The Mandalorian, and Andor.  I've certainly been a pretty happy camper post TROS with the D+ stuff.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

The problem is, there's nothing special about Star Wars any more. The magic is gone. It's just another scripted show. Even when it's good it's just...OK.

 

House of the Dragon showed us that a hiatus, good writing and compelling characters can make fans forget about whatever they hated from a franchise's failures. Yes, Star Wars, Star Trek & Marvel just need to go away for a while. But there has to be more than that. Go away not simply because there's too much of all of it (though there is that), but because what they're producing feels watered down and uninspired. It's time to just go away and let other imaginations dream it all up again.

 

And when they do come back, it needs to be b/c there's a compelling reason to (i.e. a great story & characters) beyond just creating "content" to fill streaming hours.

 

Of course, none of this will happen, because, yeah, there's too many hours to fill, and a creative incentive alone isn't strong enough.  As long as they continue to serve dog food and fans pretend it's filet mignon, we're stuck with what we get, and are expected to enjoy it.  Actually, enjoying it is optional, just watch.  Come to think of it, watching isn't strictly necessary, just subscribe!

 

[HunterTech 987]

Someone needs to watch Andor if even the more cynical fans are finding plenty to enjoy.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,507]

6 hours ago, Edmilson said:

 It needs some time to breathe.

Earth. Edmilson. 2022.

[Andy 4,090]

I want Cinematic popcorn munching Star Wars back.  It was made for theaters.   TV is fine, but it’s not the same level of thrills. 
 

*disclaimer: I love the Sequels. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

17 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I can’t believe anyone actually thinks another Rian Johnson Star Wars movie is ever going to happen.

Rian Johnson certainly seems to!

[A. A. Ron 1,740]

Rian Johnson’s an idiot.

[Pellaeon 593]

I assume Kennedy and Johnson are simply saving face by answering the occasional question about it when it comes up. “Oh yah, would love to do it, someday, schedule permitting.” Uh-huh. A Star Wars movie trilogy is a $1 billion prospect. I assume such things don’t happen lightly, in people’s spare time. And I don’t think that kind of money gets risked on something so contentious as another Johnson Star Wars foray is certain to be.

[mstrox 6,647]

I maintain optimism because I loved TLJ and most of Johnson’s other movies - plus, if and when it actually happens, I’ll get to be SO smug, you guys!!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

18 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Rian Johnson certainly seems to!

 

He could just be trolling at this point. He's already making the movies he wants to, every now and then he'll throw out a line about this trilogy and watch the fanbase froth into a frenzy and then go about his business.

 

Personally I think he's above SW now, as are most directors/creatives. I'm sick to death of the SW universe, though I suppose if anyone was going to breathe new life into it it's definitely Johnson (I haven't watched Andor which is supposedly quite compelling).

[crumbs 14,305]

3 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

He could just be trolling at this point. He's already making the movies he wants to, every now and then he'll throw out a line about this trilogy and watch the fanbase froth into a frenzy and then go about his business.

 

Personally I think he's above SW now, as are most directors/creatives. I'm sick to death of the SW universe, though I suppose if anyone was going to breathe new life into it it's definitely Johnson (I haven't watched Andor which is supposedly quite compelling).

 

Agreed on all counts. Johnson is way too talented for Star Wars and better served doing his own thing. In his shoes I wouldn't waste my time on big studio franchises (especially when he has that sweet Netflix money, and probably any choice of project after the Knives Out trilogy is done).

 

Actors/directors have also learned how to manipulate the news cycle, throwing out soundbites that trigger headlines, conveniently while promoting their latest films (Johnson about Star Wars, Fiennes about Harry Potter, Cavill about Superman, etc).

[MaxMovieMan 269]

Ok he did mostly good in Last Jedi beside a few story choices for major characters. The one thing that was truly awful was all of the casino planet stuff. What was that? That was so awful. How could he put that in there? Almost everything else about the movie was pretty good-great but that one planet makes the movie hard to watch.

With original characters and a new era I think that Johnson could make a great trilogy. Him unchained is amazing. Looper and Knives Out are awesome and apparently Glass Onion is also good.

 

As long as he doesn’t include space horses and casinos I think he’ll be fine (This mostly means blatant politically messages in Star Wars which shouldn’t have anything like that).

[crumbs 14,305]

53 minutes ago, MaxMovieMan said:

(This mostly means blatant politically messages in Star Wars which shouldn’t have anything like that).

 

Blatant political messaging has been part of Star Wars long before Rian Johnson entered the building...

 

ROTJ had obvious Vietnam War undertones, and the prequels effectively mirrored the rise of the Third Reich/Hitler with the Empire/Palpatine. ROTS wasn't exactly subtle with some of its dialogue, either.

 

Johnson at least tried something interesting, unlike Abrams (who just glossed over the politics and let viewers fill in the gaps). The idea that people were funding an ongoing war on both sides, purely to line their own pockets, had lots of potential for an epic final film... alas.

[JohnTheBaptist 57]

I don't get the HoTD comparison. We already know that Star Wars fans will always come back for more, regardless of quality. Maybe that's true of GoT too, but there's less upfront cost for them compared to buying a movie ticket.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

The Last Jedi is probably the least political Star Wars film (or maybe second, after TROS).

 

People that think it's "too" political obviously haven't been paying attention all these years, except to the Epic™ pew pew spaceship battle and laser sword fights.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

TLJ definitely had interesting and entertaining parts. And unlike TROS it was consistent with the previous movie. But the dumb Holdo ark about just not talking to Poe resulting in the resulution that Poe learns the lesson, that he simply should have trusted his superior and stopped making up his own mind and ask for information or the whole useless mission of Finn and Rose and their "romance" (who thought someone would ever be able to stage a romance with less chemistry than Padme and Anakin in episode II?) and that stupid spaceship Chase (which might have been ok for a mediocre Clone Wars Episode, but Not an ark for a major movie), all that was until that time the worst I had seen in Star Wars. But TROS taught us, it could always get worse.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

The Last Jedi is probably the least political Star Wars film.

 

People that think otherwise obviously haven't been paying attention all these years, except to the Epic™ pew pew spaceship battle and laser sword fights.

I don't blame TLJ, because already TFA didn't do a proper setup. But actually in TLJ the fundamenal questions came up, what is the political condition of the galaxy? The First Order seemed to be a pure military organization aiming to destroy the new republic. Seemed rather like something like ISIS, than the empire which was build on the republics structure and therefore had an administration.