Rian Johnson developing a fourth Star Wars trilogy... Oh my..

[Docteur Qui 1,158]

I wasn't going to go into this any further because I'm not really trying to change your mind, only communicate why the story choices about Luke work for me. But as you've asked me direct questions I'll answer the best I can.

 

22 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Do you think it makes sense for the character of Luke to harbour zero doubt towards the vision he had when he reached into Ben’s mind?

 

I'll repeat that the brevity of the sequence of events is what is important here - Luke reacts before he can think rationally about what he has seen. Harbouring doubt implies processing what he has seen, which he can't do because thought processing is a higher brain function that occurs after a traumatic or stressful incident. What Luke thinks of the vision after the fact isn't explicitly stated, he only tells us how it made him feel. But to me the implication is that much of his guilt stems from the idea that the vision came to pass because of how he reacted - in essence he feels like he caused it. He eventually absolves himself of a lot of this guilt (with crucial help from Rey and Leia), accepting that Snoke is the ultimate reason Ben turned, while importantly still owning up to his wrongdoing by sacrificing himself to save the Rebellion in an act of penance. None of this is at all contradictory to Luke as a character, unless you view Luke as not having any human flaws and weaknesses to begin with.

 

 

22 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Was Luke in a similar enough circumstance to when he was on the Death Star II in conflict with the Emperor and his father as he was when he was in that room with Ben sleeping, to be able to say that his actions are comparable?

 

The physical circumstances of each scene are different, but the essence is the same. While in an already heightened state and dealing with a complex combination of emotions, Luke is told something that causes him to react emotionally and violently. On the Death Star he is mid-battle, being stalked by his father, full of adrenaline and fear, but also trying to focus on the compassion he feels for Vader when the provocation occurs. In TLJ he is already visibly unsettled and afraid of what senses from Ben, even before he reaches out and the vision occurs. His mental state before each incident is every bit as important as what happens after.

 

I know I'm getting a bit psychological here, but that's what the film is inviting us to do - to try and understand what is going through Luke's head in this moment and how he processes it after the fact. In my view this is very well communicated in the film, but that effectiveness is obviously subjective.

[Chen G. 2,478]

5 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Luke condemns the Jedi for being hypocritical and full of hubris for...getting defeated by one of the most cunning and powerful Sith to have ever lived? We know there's more to that story because of the Prequels, but in the context of the movie and Luke's understanding of what happened it's a caricature that places the blame for their defeat solely on the Jedi.

 

Well, that quote of Luke's is a kind of retcon of the prequel trilogy that frames the Jedi as flawed: I don't think Lucas was writing the prequel trilogy thinking the Jedi are particularly flawed. I think he gave Yoda and Windu and Obi Wan lines which he thought were really cool zen kind of things, but which to a western, 21st century audience came-off alienating.

 

Rian Johnson tried to recontextualize the whole thing which, to be fair, is something this series had always been doing. We can argue how succesful it is or isn't, but I don't think it sheds any more light on Luke's conduct. I think feeling responsible for the deaths of who-knows how many teenage students who are under your care is enough to send anyone into seclusion.

[Holko 7,200]

That quote is said by a Luke who already had years to fume about all this past he only had secondhand accounts about, with nobody there to put it all in context for him. He's wrong and changes by the end. Why is this so complicated

 

 

 

Also why can Beowulf kill Grendel and hi smother and rule a kingdom but die while killing the dragon. How can Arthur lose his throne and get a mortal wound getting it back after so many successes and growth. why are these monomyth writers attacking the monomyth

[Chen G. 2,478]

13 minutes ago, Holko said:

He's wrong and changes by the end.

 

I think the movie would have been more interesting if he wasn't wrong.

[Pellaeon 489]

Serious question. Is the title, The Last Jedi, an allusion to The Last Ringbearer?

[mstrox 5,031]

I always assumed it was a reference to The Last of the Famous International Playboys

[DarthDementous 604]

20 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

Serious question. Is the title, The Last Jedi, an allusion to The Last Ringbearer?

I think it’s a toss-up between this part of TFA’s title crawl:

”Skywalker, the last Jedi, has vanished!”

 

Or from the old expanded universe book with the same name. Rian has posted screenshots of books from the old expanded universe so it’s definitely not far fetched

[Docteur Qui 1,158]

Yeah, I mean The Last [insert noun here] is a pretty common genre/fantasy title. Off the top of my head:

 

The Last Airbender

The Last of the Mohicans

The Last of Us

The Last Samurai

Last of the Timelords

etc

 

It's an evocative way to title a story and says a lot without needing many words. But I suppose it's very likely Johnson came across it a few times when researching for the film and it stuck in his head as being a good summation of the themes in his film.

[mstrox 5,031]

It’s also dialogue from the movie

[Edmilson 3,517]

Funnily enough, here in Brazil (and I think in some other countries too), the title of the movie was in the plural: "Os Últimos Jedi". Apparently, the translators working for Disney didn't know if "The Last Jedi" meant just one Jedi or more than one, so they chose to put in plural. If I remember correctly, Johnson was pretty upset with that, as it was supposed to be just one last Jedi (at least at the beginning of the movie).