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Rian Johnson developing a fourth Star Wars trilogy... Oh my..

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I kind of If get it now; why Mr. Williams needed do so much time on this SHIT of a movie to get it scored...

I feel sorry for mr. Williams for this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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He wrote more music for Rian and the score sounds a shitload more energetic than TFA.

 

Based on this, Williams clearly hated Abrams with a passion, likely badmouthing him at every opportunity to Daisy. He even went out of his way to have other conductors handle most of TFA because he was sick of conducting Rey Meets BB8 after the 9th revision.

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4 hours ago, crumbs said:

He wrote more music for Rian and the score sounds a shitload more energetic than TFA.

 

Do you really think this way?  There are lots of ways the two scores differ, but I find their energy levels to be both pretty consistent with each other

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I really like that bit where those funny looking speeders are racing across the desert and the Resistence fanfare plays and then that bit where the Chinese lady looks at a picture of her dead sister, or was it that banana shaped necklace thingy? Anyway, I like that bit.

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1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

TLJ is more robust and energetic overall, IMO.

 

I wouldn't know about "robust" but its certainly more energetic, at least in that its a fuller sound. For that reason alone, I'd say it is a better score.

 

Although to pin this on Williams collaboration with the respective filmmakers is a bit of stretch. The Force Awakens was simply him winding up.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Although to pin this on Williams collaboration with the respective filmmakers is a bit of stretch. 

 

Is it, though? Although of course, the narrative of the films themselves dictate the approach. For anyone (aka @Not Mr. Big) complaining about the lack of new themes in The Last Jedi: seriously, what do y'all want from the film he was given to work with? Each major character got a theme, and we even got setpiece motifs!

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Almost everything in my last post was obviously sarcastic except for that observation about energy. TLJ's orchestrations are deeper and the score more energetically performed than the comparatively restrained, streamlined orchestrations of TFA. Parts of TFA sound like Williams was trying to re-learn how to write in that 'SW mode', which makes total sense considering the 10 year hiatus. Clearly his memory was well-jogged by 2016 because TLJ could pass for a score recorded right after ROTS. I'm sure Williams himself has spoken about this effect with other sequel scores, where it took him weeks of writing before he was back in "the zone" of writing in a musical idiom from his past.

 

None of these points are criticisms, just observations. As already pointed out, TFA is brimming with more original ideas but Williams does more interesting things with them in TLJ. The films themselves also differ greatly in that JJ sadly didn't allow Williams many musical opportunities with his editing (and when he did, they made fairly restrained musical choices), whereas Rian went out of his way to give Williams and his orchestra several grand musical opportunities.

 

2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

You can tell that Williams loved working on TLJ because there are no significant new themes and the underscore is uninspired

 

And the underscore for TFA isn't? You mean cue after cue of solemn Force Theme horn solos? There's some uninteresting underscore in the prequels too, not to mention KOTCS.

 

But when you're writing about 3 hours of music for these films, it makes perfect sense for him to devote his time and energy to the dense action cues. The Battle of Crait and Escape are worth taking up weeks of his time because the entire orchestra is firing on all cylinders and they are key setpieces. Rose Appears or Lady Officer and Poe Conspire are not. He would rightly spot those scenes quickly with Rian/JJ, determine the mood required, and probably hear the cue in his head that instant.

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On 8/31/2018 at 6:18 PM, Nick Parker said:

what do y'all want from the film he was given to work with? Each major character got a them

 

Composers find ways around such issues. I mean, there technically wasn't much to compose new thematic material for in Empire Strikes Back: just Yoda and Cloud City, really. But Williams wrote a new theme for a relationship between existing characters (Leia and Han), a new theme for Darth Vader, a new theme for the Droids, etc...

 

Instead what we got here is "lets put The Force theme under every vaugely impactful moment".

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19 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

But when you're writing about 3 hours of music for these films, it makes perfect sense for him to devote his time and energy to the dense action cues. The Battle of Crait and Escape are worth taking up weeks of his time because the entire orchestra is firing on all cylinders and they are key setpieces. Rose Appears or Lady Officer and Poe Conspire are not. He would rightly spot those scenes quickly with Rian/JJ, determine the mood required, and probably hear the cue in his head that instant.

The action cues are actually the main thing I was thinking about with the uninspired underscore.  There's some cool stuff (The Faltheirs) but most of it REALLY disjointed by Williams' standard - disconnected brass stingers pasted together with an occasional quote of The March of the Resistance.  TFA's action music may not be 100% thematic or anything but it has a nice "chugging" flow to it.  Each section follows through to the other with good synergy (where TLJ feels very "stop and start").  

 

Some of the "quiet" underscore such as "Lesson Two" are actually pretty good

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37 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But Williams wrote a new theme for a relationship between existing characters (Leia and Han), a new theme for Darth Vader, a new theme for the Droids, etc...

 

Which he did with Luke! He also wrote new thematic ideas such as the seductive Snoke motif in New Alliance. The storytelling of The Empire Strikes Back is also very different from The Last Jedi: is there really any room for say a Crait motif? What ideas would you represented with a melody that weren't necessary? And furthermore, why would it be necessary? 

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8 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

the seductive Snoke motif

 

Now you're just scraping the bottom of the barrell looking for recurring themes that just aren't there.

 

Williams has always made a big point out of basing each of these scores primarily on new material. The Last Jedi is a departure from that.

 

I'm not going to theorize about whether he's had enough of it, or whether he hated Johnson, or whether he was saboutaged by Zimmer or whatever - I'm just saying it detracts, to me, from the music.

 

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12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Now you're just scraping the bottom of the barrell looking for recurring themes that just aren't there.

 

Cute.

 

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I'm just saying it detracts, to me, from the music.

 

 

It's your freedom, of course, but I pose my question again: why is extensive melodic identification necessary here? Is it a sense of internal continuity, that feeling of "Hey, I recognize that from before!" ?

8 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

Regardless of the lack of new themes for Snoke, the music Williams wrote for his scenes is quite excellent.  It's a shame you couldn't hear much of it in the film.

 

Agreed on the music volume. How is the beginning of "New Alliance" not a motif, though? I need to listen to the low woodwinds in I think "Who Are You?" if that's another variation of the motif.

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1 minute ago, kaseykockroach said:

I'm guessing you needed help falling asleep?

 

Nope.  I had put my kids to bed, I had finally hooked up my record player in the new house, so I listened to sides C and D of the vinyl release of TFA while I enjoyed a small cocktail.  It was lovely.

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