Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 You'll have to pay for that, you know? That's LaLaLand property! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Now you know there was a man named Neil S. Bulk and that he saved me. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,670 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, crumbs said: Yeah that's what I was thinking, it sounds like an alternate ending to "Rose" without the piano. Quite a memorable piece of scoring. They had plenty of space on the first 3 discs to include it, pity they didn't. I understand the omissions of previously released source music or suites that weren't recorded during the film sessions, but it's unusual that LLL would just disregard such prominent music featured in the film. They even went to the trouble of including cues without synth overlays. Yeah I skimmed through the film on netflix last night, and while it was mostly an observation of Cameron's mutilation of the score, I noticed the finale cue not only had that woodwind bit, but also used the Unable to Stay bagpipe-less alternate. The frustration continues with expanded sets that don't give any clues or materials for even quite pivotal scenes where the original cue wasn't used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I think thats mostly because those film edits arent stored properly. Like the infamous missing 'No Need for Caution' track from Interstellar At least some people made a good rip of that pipeless version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're missing: - 2 1/2 Miles Down film version inserts - Rose's music box - Rose's Suicide Attempt alternate used for the scene where Cal gives Rose the diamond - Eternal Father, Strong to Save - Rose alternate used for second part of Lovemaking - Ending flute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 In the case of the Suicide Attempt it's not so much an alternate as it is just the same cue with the synths dialed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The prominently heard film version of Alexander's Ragtime Band is also missing, though fortunately included on BTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Hold on to that one for that, the suite, the concert pieces and of course the radio edit of "My Heart Will Go On." You need a minimum of 6 discs for this score. The OST, BTT and LLL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I never listen to the OST, I listened to my stereo downmix of the 5.1 OST. The mixing was superior on that, especially in 'Southampton'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Oh, I agree. I listen to that version as well. I have the boot with bonus tracks where the synth is minimized which predicted the alternates in this set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Is the unreleased flute section at the end on the boot? It's listed on Paramount's official film cue sheets as 'Unable to Stay, Unwilling to Leave - New Ending'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 19 hours ago, Philippe Roaché said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're missing: - 2 1/2 Miles Down film version inserts - Rose's music box - Rose's Suicide Attempt alternate used for the scene where Cal gives Rose the diamond - Eternal Father, Strong to Save - Rose alternate used for second part of Lovemaking - Ending flute We're also missing the bugle Molly Brown makes a fuss about. Why on earth would you want that church music, though? The singing is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Every bit of music from Titanic is better than everything. Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, Philippe Roaché said: Every bit of music from Braveheart 2.00 (aka Titanic) is better than everything, except music from Braveheart. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Knowing both scores inside and out, the only things Braveheart and Titanic have in common are that they both use Uilleann pipes (and Titanic uses them very sparingly compared to Braveheart) and the alternate version of the "Logo / Main Title" has a very Braveheart-styled sound to it. Other than that, the thematic material, the orchestrations, the overall performances don't really recall Braveheart, so saying they're similar because they both use pipes is like saying two other scores sound the same because they use trumpets. If one were to say Legends Of The Fall and Braveheart were similar I'd be on board with that. Or Independence Day. But whatever. People will hear what they want to hear. Bilbo and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Yeah, I used to think they were very alike but they more I listen the less I think that. They’re very different scores. I guess its like saying Superman is Star Wars 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 It was a freaking joke. But I would argue that the very choice to give Titanic a Celtic edge is derived from James Cameron’s love of Braveheart. It’s the same lineup: not just the Ulieann Pipes but also the tin whistle and boys. I also hear similarities in the melodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Horner had been doing that sort of thing since the 80s! The only direct Braveheart connection is "Attack on Murron" used in the trailers. It's really awesome there, utilizing the shot of the wreck from the very end of the movie. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Every trailer between 1995 and 2002 used Attack on Murron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Just now, Chen G. said: Every trailer between 1995 and 2002 used Attack on Murron... I distinctly and fondly remember its use in a trailer for Fellowship of the Ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Yep. Lord of the Rings was also temp-tracked with Braveheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: It was a freaking joke. But I would argue that the very choice to give Titanic a Celtic edge is derived from James Cameron’s love of Braveheart. It’s the same lineup: not just the Ulieann Pipes but also the tin whistle and boys. I also hear similarities in the melodies. It's been a common belief probably centered around the pipes and whistles but those whistles are a staple of many Horner scores before and after. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,943 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The melodies I’ve found similar, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'm not talking about the scores having no connection, I'm saying they are not as similar as believed when you really get down to it. Braveheart was far more epic in scale, more lushly performed, more brutal and primitive in its violent action music. Titanic was a bigger film with a smaller-scaled score. Yes there's a Celtic connection, just like there was with Patriot Games (which was used in the Braveheart trailers, like how Braveheart was in the Titanic trailers....all three of them being Paramount films) and of course The Devil's Own was more overtly Irish in its approach as well. If you find the melodies similar, I stand by what I said: People will hear what they want to hear. I hear Legends Of The Fall in Independence Day, just as I hear Elfman's Batman theme in Zimmer's The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises (not Batman Begins) and even a little bit hinted in the Batman music of Batman v Superman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 383 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 From the FSM message board: an official cue sheet detailing the name of each cue (even tracked music) and exactly when it starts and stops in the film Richard Penna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Holy shit, that's impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,670 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Woah. That may explain why LLL's opening lacks the 'rumble' when the title card disappears and we see the craft descending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yes, there appears to be a metric shite-load of cues superimposed over the top of others, which have long been assumed to be sweeteners or overlays. Instead, they were just edits. Hard to believe Cameron is that specific about exactly how the music needs to sound, but clearly he is. Still doesn't explain the missing ending though, but according to these cue sheets it's an alternate/new ending for Unable To Stay, Unwilling To Leave. I'm not sure you can editorially create the film's clean fade-out of that track using the film version (as it segues into the chase music with Hockley pulling the gun from Lovejoy's holster). Maybe Horner recorded the new ending after Cameron told him his original cue was being scrapped in favour of tracked music, so he wrote the new ending to accompany the first title card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I still think the best track I've ever heard from anyone is probably "Death of Titanic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Titanic's Noble End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Corellian2019 said: From the FSM message board: an official cue sheet detailing the name of each cue (even tracked music) and exactly when it starts and stops in the film Bloody hell that's a detailed document! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Don't worry, we still love your spreadsheets, too. bollemanneke and Bilbo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 LLL set question. A Promise Kept (Alternate) is the film version and can just replace everything from the original cue from 1:43 onwards. Can the same be done with the Miles Down Alternate cue? In other words, what part of the original track would the alt replace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I just listened to this for the first time. Outside of the movie, I've only listened to the 20-minute Suite and a few odd cues so far. I knew it was a holy grail for many years, so when it was announced, I was amazed, and happy for you guys, but really unsure whether I would like it (what with all the synths and fake choir), so I figured I'd need a number of listens before I could decide if I need the set. In the last few weeks, I tried not to get carried away by the magnitudes some people use to describe it, because I would likely just be disappointed. Today's when I finally got around to my first listen. Holy hell is it magnificent. I hereby redact most of my negative statements I ever uttered about it anywhere, and officially place this LLL set on my to-buy list (not on top, it's not my highest priority yet), although in my main listening order on my laptop and phone will probably throw in some source cues here and there (Gaelic Storm is awesome) and I'll probably restore some more iconic film versions like Winning Ticket and the final Heaven/Dream sequence. Bilbo and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Corellian2019 said: From the FSM message board: an official cue sheet detailing the name of each cue (even tracked music) and exactly when it starts and stops in the film You're all welcome. 36 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: LLL set question. A Promise Kept (Alternate) is the film version and can just replace everything from the original cue from 1:43 onwards. Can the same be done with the Miles Down Alternate cue? In other words, what part of the original track would the alt replace? I made my own custom assembly of the score and did just that for "A Promise Kept", but no, you cannot take the alternate 2 1/2 Miles Down and insert / replace it into the primary cue, because there's nowhere at all that it can fit and sound like it works. Even synching it with the ending of the primary cue, it doesn't work at all. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Hmm. Someone should take that 24 page PDF, and put yellow highlighting on every bit in there that isn't on the LLL set, and then re-post it. That would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It wouldn't be a lot, just because the score was so chopped up. Missing from the LLL set are: 21/2 Miles Down - Violin Tool Kit (slow, dreary violin backed by synth) Wild Piano (for the submerged piano) (Lo Pulse is just the thumping bass from the alternate ending to 2 1/2 Miles Down) Fox News theme (source...does anyone miss this anyway?) A Lucky Hand (this is from 'Heaven Help Us') Beacon (Michael Stearns) Unable To Stay, Unwilling To Leave - New Ending (the Tony Hinnigan solo that closes the film before credits) Drone and Chord bollemanneke and Jay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yea, I guess more interesting would be like, a line of red text added to every entry showing the timestamp of where it can be found on the LLL set. Like a guide on how to recreate the film versions using the LLL set since the filmstem/concert leak is only 192kbps mp3. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 If you're only looking for the end result, a guy in the dark place has a complete film version recreation planned, with film rips with all SFX removed. A previous, only almost perfect version is available, what I've listened to sounds pretty damn good, and better than 192. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Yea, I'm sure others are already on that project, and I personally don't have an interest in listening to a "better" recreation of all of Cameron's hacking, but I'm sure many others will enjoy it. I like Horner's full unedited cues, I just pick and choose which versions I prefer, and some I take out entirely for a shorter and more satisfying experience. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 All that effort to re-butcher a score and have that as the preferred listening experience gives new meaning to the words "to each their own". To say I have no interest in that sort of thing is a massive understatement but meh, more power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, NL197 said: Fox News theme (source...does anyone miss this anyway?) Yep. We'll never get to turn that up, dear. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'll be goddamned. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'm not interested in many of the film edits, either, except for maybe the 2 1/2 Miles Down Wild Piano / Nearer overlaid sections, and that ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I just want the few remaining alternate versions that were used in the film, not film edits. The only film edit I want is the part in "2 1/2 Miles Down" scene where you see the artifacts being illuminated. That's a great edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,337 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, NL197 said: It wouldn't be a lot, just because the score was so chopped up. Missing from the LLL set are: 21/2 Miles Down - Violin Tool Kit (slow, dreary violin backed by synth) Wild Piano (for the submerged piano) (Lo Pulse is just the thumping bass from the alternate ending to 2 1/2 Miles Down) Fox News theme (source...does anyone miss this anyway?) A Lucky Hand (this is from 'Heaven Help Us') Beacon (Michael Stearns) Unable To Stay, Unwilling To Leave - New Ending (the Tony Hinnigan solo that closes the film before credits) Drone and Chord Don't forget Music Box and Bugle. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I almost didn't bother with the LLL album because it didn't have the bugle. In fact, I have it on good authority that the bugle used in "Glory" can't be located, which is why that score was never expanded officially. Bilbo and bollemanneke 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 383 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, NL197 said: In fact, I have it on good authority that the bugle used in "Glory" can't be located, which is why that score was never expanded officially. Perhaps it shows up on the isolated score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now