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James Horner's TITANIC (2017 4CD expanded edition from La-La Land Records)


Jay

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I can answer that. 

I did my own 'extended' cut of the film....then I did it again using the open-matte version to make a Chris Nolan-styled "IMAX" shifting AR presentation....then I did a 'restored score' version I just completed. 

With the sole exception of the extended scene of Rose getting rescued / hiding from Cal after the sinking (as they were aboard the Carpathia) which used the full unedited "A Life So Changed", the score in all the deleted scenes is just as butchered as the rest of the film. 

"Trapped on 'D' Deck" was indeed meant to score the Lovejoy / stunt double Jack fight (the piano rumbling) and it's funny...The ending of that sequence (where they're trapped behind the locked gate fumbling for the keys) was scored twice. "compliments of the Chippewa Falls Dawsons" is a mouthful to make a good action line. Meh. 

The first ending of the cue (heard in the 'Back to Titanic' edited version of "A Building Panic" was the original ending to that scene. The thriller / col legno-filled ending used in the film (called "Trapped on 'D' Deck - End') was basically the revised version (where it was made up of the same ideas in 'Death of Titanic' later on in the score). 

 

The majority of deleted scenes flesh out the factual events of the Titanic history, as well as add some nice character moments with Jack and Rose spending more time bonding (so it isn't as rushed in what was already a long film) and yes, that completely dropped Fabrizio / Helga storyline (Helga is the girl Rose looks at just before the ship's stern sinks under. She and Rose look at each other before Helga drops to her death)

 

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2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Why can't Cameron just release an extended cut? I keep finding fanedits that don't include the final alternate ending. I know it's not great, but I want it in there.


Jesus no. If he ever did an extended version that thing should be left in the bin. It’s awful and absolute ruins the movie. If that had been the real ending the movie would have tanked! There’s not a single redeeming quality. The dialogue is awful and the acting is even worse. 
 

It’s actually surreal just how bad that scene is. 

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12 hours ago, NL197 said:

The majority of deleted scenes flesh out the factual events of the Titanic history, as well as add some nice character moments with Jack and Rose spending more time bonding (so it isn't as rushed in what was already a long film) and yes, that completely dropped Fabrizio / Helga storyline (Helga is the girl Rose looks at just before the ship's stern sinks under. She and Rose look at each other before Helga drops to her death)


yeah, there’s loads of nice historical bits and pieces in there. JJ Astor cutting open the lifebelt to show Madeline and things like that. 
 

I know there was supposed to be a confrontation between Rose and Cal on the Carpathia but I don’t know if that was ever filmed. 

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3 minutes ago, His Royal Noelness said:

yeah, there’s loads of nice historical bits and pieces in there. JJ Astor cutting open the lifebelt to show Madeline and things like that. 

The chief baker spending all the sinking time drinking alcohol and throwing any loose wood he could find overboard so people could hang onto them!

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2 minutes ago, Holko said:

The chief baker spending all the sinking time drinking alcohol and throwing any loose wood he could find overboard so people could hang onto them!


I forgot that was in there. Been ages since I watched it. Yeah, he stepped off the ship and didn’t get his hair wet and survived. 

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6 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Why can't Cameron just release an extended cut? I keep finding fanedits that don't include the final alternate ending. I know it's not great, but I want it in there.

 I did it in mine. I don’t think it ruins anything. It’s a bit too light but the life lesson is nice enough. It could have done without the overhead Brock laughing part.  

@bollemanneke you have a message waiting. 
 

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So have the deleted scenes been released in open matte, or only 2.35:1?  The film itself was released in both on blu, right?

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7 hours ago, Jay said:

So have the deleted scenes been released in open matte, or only 2.35:1?  The film itself was released in both on blu, right?

 

The deleted scenes were first released on the 2005 DVD (the one with that dumbass / egocentric image of Cameron reaching for an Oscar statuette) and then again on the 2012 Blu-ray. 

 

They are in 2.35:1, not open matte. 

The film itself was released in both on the 2012 Blu-ray, as the 3D version was open matte (and spread to two discs), while the 2.35:1 version was on one disc. 

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I was thinking of a nearly complete extended cut the other day.  Lo and behold, it's being talked about here.  Personally, I think the love story plot is okay but I could watch the film on repeat just for the scenes of titanic and ambiance alone.

 

I was wondering/hoping they might release an extended cut next year for the 25th anniversary of the film and would gladly buy it again.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Someone took a version of the album I did (using the 5.1 mix of the OST) and put this onto YouTube. 

This is literally just the center channel of that 5.1 mix that I added some reverb to to fill it out to make it a faux stereo. 

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23 hours ago, NL197 said:

Someone took a version of the album I did (using the 5.1 mix of the OST) and put this onto YouTube. 

This is literally just the center channel of that 5.1 mix that I added some reverb to to fill it out to make it a faux stereo. 

interesting! I have no idea though how that works. Are you sure? I'm wondering why you can hear the click track. 

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On 7/29/2021 at 1:15 AM, Henry Sítrónu said:

interesting! I have no idea though how that works. Are you sure? I'm wondering why you can hear the click track. 

 

Dead sure, because I made a "center channel album" and shared that years ago. I know my own 'work' lack of a better term. 

I'll even DM you the rest of it. 

I took the 5.1 DTS CD, and then years after that the 5.1 SACD, and broke it down to its individual channels. The way the score was mixed, there are no electronics (save for the chimes) in the center channel of the mix, and therefore no synth choir. As the center is obviously mono, I added reverb to make it faux-stereo. The reason for the click track is because it's a cue that relied so heavily on the synth choir. Not something to just go free-time the way Horner preferred to record his music with the orchestra. 

Another fun side effect of the way it was mixed, is that the choir was not mixed for surround. It was just mixed for stereo and was 'copied' to the rear channels of the mix. It's slightly out of sync in the rear channels so if you mix them down, cues like "Leaving Port" sound out of phase / hollow but if you carefully correct the sync, you can eliminate the choir almost entirely. 

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  • 1 month later...

Surprisingly the official upload of this track on youtube has the answer

 

Quote

Jack Dawson's Luck (includes "Humours of Caledon", "The Red-Haired Lass", "The Boys on the Hilltop" & "The Bucks of Oranmore") · James Horner

 

Bodhran: Tommy Hayes
Lyricist: Nick Vestuto
Lyricist: Will Jennings
Violin: Eileen Ivers
Uilleann  Pipes: Eric Rigler
Uilleann  Pipes: Tony Hinnigan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E4oXn6wMps

 

The upload of Lament has info too

 

Quote

Lament (includes "A Spailpín A Rún") · James Horner

 

Lyricist: Nick Vestuto
Violin: Eileen Ivers
Lyricist: Will Jennings
Flute, Uilleann  Pipes: Tony Hinnigan
Uilleann  Pipes: Eric Rigler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WTyloF2W9s

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Those credits were pulled from the non-specific album notes. 

Nick Vestuto as "lyricist" is a bit silly, because in the album notes he's credited as coming up with the dialogue-filled radio edit of "My Heart Will Go On". 'Conceived by Nick Vestuto'. 

Lament has no lyrics, so adding in Will Jennings (the lyricist who wrote the song lyrics) makes no sense, just as with Jack Dawson's Luck. 

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12 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I hope this can go here since the track is not included on the LLL, but can anyone tell me who performs Jack Dawson's Luck on Back to Titanic?

 

Eric Rigler, uilleann pipe

Tony Hinnigan, pipe, penny whistle, flutes

Eileen Ivers, violin

Zan McLeod, bouzouki

Tommy Hayes, bodhrân

Finally the LLL edition is coherent because it includes only the recordings made for the film and excludes all the recordings from July 1998 made for Back to Titanic.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Has anyone here ever tried to make  musical-sounding edit for both cues that rely on Heaven Help Us material? Or could someone explain to me which tracks from the bootleg I need to make one? I'm trying to create a version that obviously doesn't retain Cameron's editing, but does use all of the music he used.

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Has anyone here ever tried to make  musical-sounding edit for both cues that rely on Heaven Help Us material? Or could someone explain to me which tracks from the bootleg I need to make one? I'm trying to create a version that obviously doesn't retain Cameron's editing, but does use all of the music he used.

 

I'm sorry but I didn't understand that. What is the Heaven Help Us material?

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

No.  Horner recorded that cue for him to use, but Cameron rejected it and licensed and tracked in the "Heaven Help Us" recording from 1985 instead.

 

For the Live To Projection concerts they changed it up to not have to license that music.

although this recording here doesn't sound 100% like the one used in Titanic. For example, in this mix on youtube there a several drone notes that can't be heard in the film (Titanic). I can't tell if it's just another mix or a different recording entirely.
 

 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

No.  Horner recorded that cue for him to use, but Cameron rejected it and licensed and tracked in the "Heaven Help Us" recording from 1985 instead.

 

For the Live To Projection concerts they changed it up to not have to license that music.

 

Thank you for this information. @Jay
 

But I don't understand because it contradicts what music editors Jim Henrikson and Joe E. Rand said about it for the book.


They were present daily for two months at the Skywalker Ranch to finalize the film.


For the scene where Jack is running on the dock after the poker game, James Horner had planned the beginning of the track "Southampton Leaving Port".
James Cameron wanted something else.

"Joe and I had some Irish reel material from Heaven Help Us (1985) and we gave it to Jim for a listen," said Jim Henrikson. "He put it up against film and liked it. Problem being it would not be available to license for Titanic."

So a recording session took place on September 22, 1997 with Irish musicians.

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5 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

For the scene where Jack is running on the dock after the poker game, James Horner had planned the beginning of the track "Southampton".

Not Leaving Dock? Southampton's for the flashback's start.

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32 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Can I ask if there will be a Perfect Storm chapter?

You can ask me all the questions you want. Even though we are getting away from the subject which is the 4CD edition.
 

All the scores are covered in the book. The somewhat crazy goal is to get all the information into one item. The chapter on Titanic is about 26,000 words. The section on The Perfect Storm is 6,500 words.

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

Problem being it would not be available to license for Titanic."

So a recording session took place on September 22, 1997 with Irish musicians.

so they did a new recording in 1997, but used the existing composition from „Heaven Help Us“, slightly altered. That explains why the music from the film „Heaven Help Us“, (this cue here:)
 

 

… sounds different than the actual cue in Titanic:
 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm pretty sure that the 1985 'Heaven Help Us' master tapes were used to create a new mix for "A lucky Ticket" and the second part of the "Lovejoy Chase" (the scenes in the engine room). One can definitely hear it's the same recording but a different mix with some instruments dialed out (most noticable the synth percussion). Interesting enough, the Uilleann pipe solo (when they try to board in a Lucky Ticket) is not in any of the "Heaven Help Us" tracks or anywhere else so I guess JH recorded that specifically for that scene in 1997 . You can notice the rather dreadful edit too (stereo fade out from original recording to fade in solo pipe in right channel back to original recording).

 

For the first part of the "Lovejoy Chase" (when they start running and get into the lift until they stop in the engine room), this is all the re-recorded version from 1997, quite a different mix and a more pronounced/clean sound.

 

J-BM it would be interesting to hear what the music editors have to say about it if they remember it correctly :D

 

 

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Unless I'm mistaken, the video posted above called "Lucky Ticket" is a montage made from the track "Love Joy Chase" between 0:22 and 1:24.

 

And this is not indeed what is heard in the movie.

 

I found the email exchanged with the music editors concerning this part of the film.

 

They clearly explain that the Irish music for the two scenes was recorded in September 1997. I would not feel comfortable asking them for any further explanation on this subject.

 

I simply think that what we hear in the film when Jack is running on the dock is a take of the September 1997 session that does not appear in the 4CD edition.

 

 

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But that makes no sense, you can clearly hear that that cue in the film is from a completely different source, it's much less sharp. My guess is that the music editors told you the truth, that the cue was indeed recorded (and it is on the LLL), but that they then lost track of Cameron's 14278953th change of heart.

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J-BM, these guys can be wrong too and I don't mean that disrespectfully. I'm with Bollemanneke on this one. It's clear that the recordings from 1985 were used, remastered/remixed to purpose Cameron's needs. It's the exact same thing if you compare orchestrations, performance and sound quality. Only difference is the dialed out instruments. I don't know if you listened to the "Heaven Help Us" bootleg but if you did you can only agree that tracks 5/10 matches to what is heard in Titanic. I guess it was a last minute change, don't forget that the release was postponed a couple of months so they had more time in post so they could have easily forced that in right before the final cut.

 

 

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