The Last Jedi THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[Chen G. 3,943]

I like the theme much more when its just the melody, without the introduction figures.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Rose's theme and Luke's exile theme work so well together, and unexpectedly too!

[Chen G. 3,943]

Its just the tone of the piece. It evokes other themes from Williams repertoire that are similarly playful or youthful. e.g. Anakin's theme. It doesn't go much deeper than that.

 

Its actually quite a neat melody!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Rose's theme is a lovely idea and fits very well with the Star Wars thematic glossary. I especially like the similarities with Anakin's Theme and the Force Theme - so much so that in retrospect it actually would've been a very poignant and fitting theme for child Anakin.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Edit

[Chen G. 3,943]

9 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I especially like the similarities with Anakin's Theme and the Force Theme.

 

For me, the connection to The Force theme (which is quite appearant) isn't as welcome, because its a character that has no connection to The Force. Its one of those instances where Williams will connect two themes not for the sake of serving some narrative function, but more generally out of a desire for cohesion.

 

Its like how he constructs all of the motives in Attack of the Clones, relevant or not, out of Across the Stars. It doesn't work for me there, and it does work - in that very specific respect - in here. Especially given how abundant The Force theme is in this, already.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

31 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

For me, the connection to The Force theme (which is quite appearant) isn't as welcome, because its a character that has no connection to The Force. Its one of those instances where Williams will connect two themes not for the sake of serving some narrative function, but more generally out of a desire for cohesion.

 

One of the themes that Johnson explores quite explicitly in TLJ is that the Force is connected to everybody and everything, not just the "Force sensitives" that can manipulate it. Rose's optimism and empathy stem from that same connection to other beings, it just doesn't manifest itself in her as the ability to float objects or use a lightsaber. Therefore I think it's very appropriate that her theme is informed by the Force theme, and indeed that's why I love how it intertwines with Luke's Island theme in "The Rebellion is Reborn". Luke's arc explores how the truths of the Force need to be relinquished from the elite and entitled few and shared with the many, and that's reflected in the stately but mournful melody of his new theme. The concert track swings between the old and the new, battling it out, before Rose's theme (and the future) emerges triumphant.

 

I get LOTR vibes from this reading; I think of the Elves relinquishing their influence on the world and bequeathing it to men. They take their power with them, but the power that resides in all living beings remains untouched.

[Chen G. 3,943]

I don't think the movie is saying that everyone in that universe can wield The Force. So from that perspective, it doesn't hold up.

 

As for Lord of the Rings, the first few Star Wars films drew heavily on Tolkien's works (Lucas originally wrote Luke and Ben's first encounter with diaogue paraphrased from Bilbo and Gandalf's first conversation in The Hobbit), so it makes sense for some of that to endure with the series. But if it were truly like Lord of the Rings, than episode IX would end with The Force itself being undone. But sadly I don't think Star Wars is that bold with its choices as a story.

[crumbs 14,300]

9 hours ago, Jerry said:

I was hoping either Rose or Finn would die at the end of TLJ. But for anyone who hasn't seen the movie, it's not to say that one or both of them didn't die. You must look at it...from a certain point of view.

 

Either Finn or Rose needed to die at the end. I found it a real copout that both survive, given how powerful Finn's attempted suicide was, and how lackluster Rose's ultimate arc became. The ultimate result was that neither had a satisfying resolution to their respective arcs.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

44 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I don't think the movie is saying that everyone in that universe can wield The Force. So from that perspective, it doesn't hold up.

 

That's not what I said, nor is that what the film was saying. The Force exists in all living things. "Wielding" it is only one way of understanding it. One does not need to wield it for its presence to be felt or for its will to be done.

 

44 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But if it were truly like Lord of the Rings, than episode IX would end with The Force itself being undone. But sadly I don't think Star Wars is that bold with its choices as a story.

 

That would be bold and very interesting, but ultimately unsustainable for the series.

[Chen G. 3,943]

59 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

That would be bold and very interesting, but ultimately unsustainable for the series.

 

Well, that depends on how they wish to sustain it. I haven't heard so much as a single word on episodes beyong IX, and as its shaping up, it seems there's no reason for the main episodes to be any more lucrative than the spin-offs, anyway. So I guess they'll finish up with IX and than do as many spin-off films as they want, and leave the main narrative as it is in IX.

 

So, in that respect, the idea of giving IX a strong sense of finality is not (or, at least, shouldn't) be out of the question.

[crumbs 14,300]

Obviously it goes without saying but I like the idea of locking off the main series of films to John Williams and closing the book after IX. When you think about it, Williams has ultimately been the intangible storyteller of Star Wars. IX is clearly going to be his final film in the series and no other composer will be able to fill the shoes, and with the OT characters now deceased, what story is left to tell? 

 

The story was always about Vader, then Vader's children redeeming him. Now it's Vader's grandson. Kylo Ren clearly ain't being redeemed at the end of IX (Abrams will be subverting everything that happened in ROTJ) so he probably dies. And there's no other offspring of the Skywalkers so once he dies the family line is finished.

 

I can see Disney spinning off the series with Rey appearing in a spin-off or something but I really think IX will finish the Skywalker Saga for good.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

For me, the connection to The Force theme (which is quite appearant) isn't as welcome, because its a character that has no connection to The Force. Its one of those instances where Williams will connect two themes not for the sake of serving some narrative function, but more generally out of a desire for cohesion.

 

When will people realize that the so-called Force theme is not used exclusively to signify the force, even in the OT?

[Chen G. 3,943]

It started its life as a theme for Ben Kenobi, and by Empire Strikes Back it was already very much the theme for The Force. If it was used for anything other than The Force itself (a triumphant read in the Battle of Hoth, and several instances in the prequels, as well as in The Last Jedi) doesn't speak to the identity of the theme but more to Williams' knack for using themes out of their narrative context for musical reasons.

 

I used to consider this theme's presence in all episodes to be a unique strength of this series, because its got one binding thematic identity that has recurred over 100 times by now. But now its become something of a weakness, because we are super-saturated in that theme.

 

17 minutes ago, crumbs said:

The story was always about Vader, then Vader's children redeeming him. Now it's Vader's grandson. Kylo Ren clearly ain't being redeemed at the end of IX (Abrams will be subverting everything that happened in ROTJ) so he probably dies.

 

Are you speaking in the narrative order of the films? Because in the original Star Wars Vader is pretty much the head stromtrooper.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

It started its life as a theme for Ben Kenobi, and gradually became a theme for The Force. If it was used for anything other than The Force itself (a triumphant read in the Battle of Hoth, numerous instances in the prequels, and here in The Last Jedi) doesn't speak to the identity of the theme but more to Williams knack for using themes out of their narrative context for musical reasons.

 

One of the most prominent uses of the theme is to convey longing and solitude, in the binary sunset scene.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Nah.

 

Williams was just using the theme for its musical impact, not for its narrative significance.

 

It wasn't even Williams' idea, it was a request by Lucas.

 

At the time it was strictly the theme for Ben Kenobi.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

The end result is nonetheless an amplification of the feelings Lucas want to convey with the scene, whether you like it or not. Unless you're more machine than man, that is. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

That doesn't make that the subject of the theme.

 

Besides, leitmotives are not assigned to emotions in quite that way. They're assigned to narrative elements, which may or may not evoke certain emotions.

 

The theme isn't about solitude; its about Ben Kenobi, whose character evokes feelings of solitude, being the last of his order.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

All I'm saying is that the theme is used quite freely.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Edit

[gkgyver 1,645]

Rose's theme sounds decidedly un-Star Wars to me.

Can't nail it why, but it strikes me as something Williams would write for a TV Series or something. The orchestrations, too.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Interesting.

 

To me, it actually sounds more in the vein of vintage Star Wars than Rey's theme. Half the time it sounds like Anakin's theme, a third of the time it sounds like Yoda's, and in the other third it sounds like The Force theme.

[King Mark 3,625]

that's a pretty good video of our most wanted unreleased cue

 

 

[Bryant Burnette 654]

On 2/24/2018 at 3:52 AM, Chen G. said:

But if it were truly like Lord of the Rings, than episode IX would end with The Force itself being undone.

 

This doesn't track for me.  The Force in Star Wars is nothing like the One Ring in Rings.  Or at least, it hasn't been presented that way thus far. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

That’s besides the point. The point is that that series was unafraid of presenting a truly challenging, poignant and conclusive ending to its story. I can’t imagine that happening with Star Wars, but it’s what should happen.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Some stories never end.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

26 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

That’s besides the point. The point is that that series was unafraid of present a truly challenging, poignant and conclusive ending to its story. I can’t imagine that happening with Star Wars, but it’s what should happen.

 

I fail to see how it's beside the point.  You're saying Thing A isn't like Thing B, but since Thing A is in no way obliged to be like Thing B, it's a pointless comparison; so in THAT sense, it's beside the point, I suppose.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

12 hours ago, King Mark said:

that's a pretty good video of our most wanted unreleased cue

 

 

 

Is that an actual scene from the movie? Wow.

[crumbs 14,300]

12 hours ago, King Mark said:

that's a pretty good video of our most wanted unreleased cue

 

 

 

It's sooo beautiful. Love the way Luke's Exile theme seamlessly transitions from Rey's Theme towards the end, as he observes from atop the cliff. Such a fantastic new theme.

 

Sadly the film cue is riddled with obvious microedits; the original cue was probably recorded for a longer version of the sequence. Alas, we'll need to wait many years, nay decades, to actually hear it.

[King Mark 3,625]

yeah, I think it's micro edited too

 

Unreleased AND microedited is our worst nightmare because even if it appears clean somewhere the real cue is only on the unedited sessions

[crumbs 14,300]

At least it's clean of dialogue. The saber sounds are annoying but if that's the only SFX to contend with I can cope.

[Falstaft 2,132]

If anyone's curious, I did a little feature with the local Boston NPR station on The Last Jedi score and Star Wars music in general. (I actually thought I was going to be talking about all 5 Oscar Nominees, but they just wanted me to talk about SW! No problem there). They cut down about 100 minutes of me talking about the score to 13 minutes of highlights, but I'm pretty pleased with the results. And forgive me, purists, for changing one note in the Luke & Leia theme as it appears in The Spark from Db to C! I'm too used to the original (correct, I dare say ) structure of the melody at that point which uses the leading tone instead of tonic pitch. Oh well...

 

http://www.wbur.org/radioboston/2018/03/02/music-star-wars

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Awesome!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I really like Luke's Exile Theme now. When I first heard it I kept expecting to lead to something else - it seems a lot like a bridge section he might use in a concert arrangement. But I've been doing a bit of playing around with it on the piano and I keep coming back to it. The similarities with the opening 7-note figure of Rey's Theme are unmistakable; it's like he was foreshadowing this theme with her's and tapping into the mythology of the Jedi while doing so. I dig it.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

On 06/03/2018 at 10:18 PM, Docteur Qui said:

I really like Luke's Exile Theme now. When I first heard it I kept expecting to lead to something else - it seems a lot like a bridge section he might use in a concert arrangement. But I've been doing a bit of playing around with it on the piano and I keep coming back to it. The similarities with the opening 7-note figure of Rey's Theme are unmistakable; it's like he was foreshadowing this theme with her's and tapping into the mythology of the Jedi while doing so. I dig it.

 

 

Right on. Described my feelings exactly!

[Breadstick Basilisk 108]

On 3/2/2018 at 9:34 PM, Falstaft said:

If anyone's curious, I did a little feature with the local Boston NPR station on The Last Jedi score and Star Wars music in general. (I actually thought I was going to be talking about all 5 Oscar Nominees, but they just wanted me to talk about SW! No problem there). They cut down about 100 minutes of me talking about the score to 13 minutes of highlights, but I'm pretty pleased with the results. And forgive me, purists, for changing one note in the Luke & Leia theme as it appears in The Spark from Db to C! I'm too used to the original (correct, I dare say ) structure of the melody at that point which uses the leading tone instead of tonic pitch. Oh well...

 

http://www.wbur.org/radioboston/2018/03/02/music-star-wars

 

Listened to it the other day! Really great; thank you for sharing.

[Oswin Pond 58]

 

 

New music !

[Jay 37,281]

Wow, that was a really bad scene wisely deleted.  Music was neat though!

[Oswin Pond 58]

I love the scene, it's better than what's in the film IMO

[crumbs 14,300]

Great cue! So how does that fit into the cue list? Chronologically it appears to take place after Finn Fights Phasma (Chrome Dome on the OST) and before Finn and Rose Escape. Could this involve No Title 5M46INS, No Title 7M67AINS, No Title 9M85INS or What Cha Got? That last one sounds like a Finn quote, albeit not in this clip.

 

They've included tracked music from Chrome Dome and The Sacred Jedi Texts.

 

Very cool either way! Nice to know there's a treasure trove of unheard music from TLJ, just like TFA. Just anooying we won't hear it for a long.... lonnnnnng time.

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,890]

A lot of people complained that nobody lost a hand in this film... it appears now that Phasma was originally supposed to.

[Balahkay 627]

I’m not 100% convinced the unreleased music belongs in this scene especially because of the other tracked music.

 

They were wise to delete this scene, though. Very cringeworthy.

[John 2,032]

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

A lot of people complained that nobody lost a hand in this film... it appears now that Phasma was originally supposed to.

 

Snoke lost both of his.

[gkgyver 1,645]

The less we get of Phasma before her pointless death the better.

[Chen G. 3,943]

I guess the scene was trying to give Phasma some substance prior to her demise, but clearly the performances weren’t quite there, and I don’t like the camera choices, either.

 

Also, even in the finished film I didn’t care for the CG in that sequence.

[aviazn 273]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:34 AM, Falstaft said:

If anyone's curious, I did a little feature with the local Boston NPR station on The Last Jedi score and Star Wars music in general. (I actually thought I was going to be talking about all 5 Oscar Nominees, but they just wanted me to talk about SW! No problem there). They cut down about 100 minutes of me talking about the score to 13 minutes of highlights, but I'm pretty pleased with the results. And forgive me, purists, for changing one note in the Luke & Leia theme as it appears in The Spark from Db to C! I'm too used to the original (correct, I dare say ) structure of the melody at that point which uses the leading tone instead of tonic pitch. Oh well...

 

http://www.wbur.org/radioboston/2018/03/02/music-star-wars

So cool. Alison Bruzek is a friend of mine—I was very happy for her when I saw her byline on that story!

[Falstaft 2,132]

5 hours ago, aviazn said:

So cool. Alison Bruzek is a friend of mine—I was very happy for her when I saw her byline on that story!

 

Small world! Working with Alison was great! 

[kelliwisethebrave 54]

On 3/7/2018 at 2:52 PM, crumbs said:

Great cue! So how does that fit into the cue list? Chronologically it appears to take place after Finn Fights Phasma (Chrome Dome on the OST) and before Finn and Rose Escape. Could this involve No Title 5M46INS, No Title 7M67AINS, No Title 9M85INS or What Cha Got? That last one sounds like a Finn quote, albeit not in this clip.

 

They've included tracked music from Chrome Dome and The Sacred Jedi Texts.

 

Very cool either way! Nice to know there's a treasure trove of unheard music from TLJ, just like TFA. Just anooying we won't hear it for a long.... lonnnnnng time.

 

 

Luckily we're getting 14 deleted scenes from TLJ next week, and I believe Rian Johnson has mentioned that they're (all?) scored. So we'll be getting more soon.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Edit

[Chen G. 3,943]

Its been discussed here before.

 

Its a fine character moment, but I'm not a fan of the cinematographical choices, and the whatever take it was - the acting still isn't quite there.