The Last Jedi THE LAST JEDI - Score as heard in the movie thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[Chen G. 3,943]

Eh?

 

1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

Reading a thread on The Last Jedi movie and seeing you say "The problem with the film is it's subversive to be surprising, and is not dramatically satisfying" over and over, for example adds little for me. I can apply similar complaints for threads focusing around the score.[...]citing the same issues you have over and over is, as has been mentioned, off-putting and the same thing you claim to want to avoid. 

 

I suppose I did repeat some of my issues for either emphasis or whatever other reason. Sometimes, its to express different aspects of a single issue: My issue with the film's over-propensity to subvert, is one that works on several levels, and in different itirations of that statement I tried to express other aspects of that sentiment.

 

Still, your's is a valid argument, nonetheless.

[aviazn 273]

Anyone noticed how harmonically similar Rose's theme is to the "mellow" unused cue from TFA? Seems like a melodic reworking of that material.

[crumbs 14,300]

You might need to post an example of what unused cue you're referring to.

[aviazn 273]

Hmm, well, it's in Faleel's release, and it's titled "Unknown Cue (mellow)". Don't think it's posted anywhere except directly by Fal.

[crumbs 14,300]

Think you're referring to the alternate Rey Meets BB8, if my memory serves me right.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Why the hell did Williams briefly associate the Emperor's theme with Shnoke?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He probably thinks they're the same guy. He read all the Snoke theories on the internet.

[John 2,032]

Because they're both old, shriveled megalomaniacs who share an obsession with throne rooms and red bodyguards.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I think we as an audience are supposed to make the association between Snoke and the Emperor as similar figures, since so much of the film is about the characters recognizing the cycles they (and the series at large) are trapped in and trying to escape from those cycles.  Williams was simply supporting that idea.  It's really not that hard to draw the connection.  You can debate whether or not that is successful, but the intent seems pretty clear to me.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I hate it when he does that.

[aviazn 273]

13 hours ago, crumbs said:

Think you're referring to the alternate Rey Meets BB8, if my memory serves me right.

Was that confirmed? Yes, I think that’s the one.

[King Mark 3,625]

17 hours ago, aviazn said:

Hmm, well, it's in Faleel's release, and it's titled "Unknown Cue (mellow)". Don't think it's posted anywhere except directly by Fal.

 well it could be. He wrote something and it inspired a new theme

 

Like i think Double Trouble is based on Entry into the Great Hall

[Will 2,215]

18 hours ago, aviazn said:

Anyone noticed how harmonically similar Rose's theme is to the "mellow" unused cue from TFA? Seems like a melodic reworking of that material.

 

Yeah, I believe I and another poster noted that last month. Very cool - I think it's more or less confirmation that the TFA cue was indeed by Williams (and not just stock music, as some had argued). Here it is (courtesy of Fal): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9ZG41dVRqaVlhLWs/view

 

Beginning of that = beginning of "Rebellion is Reborn"! Man, I really love that TFA cue. Absolutely brilliant, nostalgic, heartwarming writing from JW. 

 

14 hours ago, crumbs said:

Think you're referring to the alternate Rey Meets BB8, if my memory serves me right.

 

Yep, that's my best guess as to what it is. Williams did say in that LA Jim Svedja interview that they did multiple versions of that cue -- although it hasn't been confirmed that this unknown cue was indeed for that scene. 

[aviazn 273]

8 hours ago, Will said:

Yeah, I believe I and another poster noted that last month. Very cool - I think it's more or less confirmation that the TFA cue was indeed by Williams (and not just stock music, as some had argued).

Nice! Guess I'm late to the game.  

 

I agree—very cool. I often think of that quote where JW compares writing themes to sculpting, and how it involves endless melodic tinkering before finding something that feels inevitable. It's fascinating to see both ends of that process here. I'm not even a huge fan of Rose's theme, but while the TFA cue is charming, Rose's theme is undeniably stronger melodically.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Horner's Rose theme >>>>>>>> Williams's Rose theme

[Chen G. 3,943]

To be fair, James Cameron's Rose Dawson >>>(x1000)>Rian Johnson's Rose Tico.

[gkgyver 1,645]

To be fair, James Cameron >>> (x1000) Rian Johnson

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

To be fair, Titanic >>>>>>> everything.

[Holko 9,499]

Titanic is Star Trek now?

[John 2,032]

E.T. is better than everything.

[Wojo 2,453]

Not really. 

[John 2,032]

Wrong.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Lost Highway is better than everything!!!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I really liked when the Dreadnought came out of hyperspace and the First Order theme is right up there at maximum volume.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Obviously it was temp-tracked, that's why! And because, you know... lightning.

[Smeltington 1,436]

Snoke has the Emperor's theme because Snoke is just the emperor again! If they couldn't write a new character, why write a new theme??

[gkgyver 1,645]

Han's force ghost will fight Snoke's force ghost in Episode IX.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Edit

[crumbs 14,300]

13 hours ago, Smeltington said:

Snoke has the Emperor's theme because Snoke is just the emperor again! If they couldn't write a new character, why write a new theme??

 

I know you're being facetious but Snoke clearly has his own motif in TLJ:

 

 

I'm not even sure if this is a reworking of the low male chorale material in TFA. I've never been able to deduce the thematic writing there, if any.

[Smeltington 1,436]

I def didn't pick up on that. Does it appear anywhere else? And I guess the music that appeared during Han's death, and at the end of the Snoke FYC track, never returned?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Edit

[Chen G. 3,943]

The material in "Snoke" is indeed his theme, and it is used for him consistently throughout The Last Jedi. The Emperor's theme just makes a little cameo when he is torturing Rey. It isn't used consistently with him throughout the film or anything like that...

[mstrox 6,647]

Are you saying that the Emperor's theme IS Snoke's Theme?  An interesting take...

[Breadstick Basilisk 108]

The first appearance of the Supremacy in the film (not counting the earlier scene inside Snoke's throne room) is one of my favorite-scored scenes in TLJ. The First Order fleet jumping out of hyperspace with the fast Kylo Ren theme, and then the Supremacy itself jumps in, answered by the trombones. Love the prequel-esque fast trumpet run, too; reminds me of material from ROTS.

 

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

7 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Are you saying that the Emperor's theme IS Snoke's Theme?  An interesting take...

 

How did you get that impression?

 

People are making too much of the Emperor's theme in The Last Jedi. Its just a little cameo. Its not Snoke's theme or anything like that.

 

Snoke has his own theme, the one from The Force Awakens.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

It's his theme and the theme of Darth Plagueis.

[Smaug The Iron 510]

 

This is probably one of my favorite unreleased cue from the film. 

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

Man, I remember rolling eyes at that segue to the caretakers at the end. Felt like something out of a sitcom. Saw it again now - groaned.

 

I forgot that introduction figure (the one with the chimes) of Rey's theme was in there. I didn't recall it being in the movie at all, with the exception of the end of the credits. It helped me enjoy the "meat" of the theme much more.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

They look like creatures from that 90s Dinosaur TV show. Rian Johnson...

[Chen G. 3,943]

Its not the caretakers themselves, its the staging: the framing, the sound design, and the direction. It genuinely looks like a sitcom.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

The caretakers honestly reminded me of my great uncle's old pet dog. RIP Burley.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Man, I remember rolling eyes at that segue to the caretakers at the end. Felt like something out of a sitcom. Saw it again now - groaned.

 

I'm really conflicted about this movie's humor,  because dramatically I completely agree with you, but that moment (I'm not watching the clip 'cause I want to see the whole movie again soon) ripped a chuckle out of me in the theater. It's one of my favorite gags in the movie (the other being the cutaway from Rose's "hive of scum and villainy" speech to the posh casino dudes). 

 

I don't know if I'd be okay with it more if the movie had less comedy as a whole--all the more jarring since I could take The Last Jedi way more seriously than its predecessor. It does remind me of hearing Kershner talk about Empire Strikes Back:  "I wanted humor, but I couldn't have gags."

 

I don't know if I've talked about this movie very much, but to be clear I really liked it. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

Humor is the most subjective of all narrative elements. So the question isn't so much "is it funny?" as much as it is "is it out-of-character for this sequence?" To my mind, the answer with this, as well as a lot of the other comedy in the film, is yes.

 

Empire Strikes Back is a perfect example, because it had a lot of dark humor (with Vader picking off his admirals) which I certainly didn't find myself laughing about, but it wasn't out-of-character, so it works.

[Bespin 8,479]

In french they've translated the Caretakers as "Les gardiennes" (using so the feminine gender), which is the same expression we use for "baby-sitters" in french, so it added a non-wanted level of humor to those already unbearable scenes.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Just now, Chen G. said:

So the question isn't so much "is it funny?" as much as it is "is it out-of-character for this sequence?" To my mind, the answer with this, as well as a lot of the other comedy, is yes.

 

And that's where my conflict comes from...I don't think a number of jokes in this movie are "out of character" per se, but there's just so many of them! Some of them fit your description up the wazoo, and some of them technically work, so it might be a "straw on the camel's back" scenario, I don't know. 

 

In general, though, humor in movies is something I'm really sensitive to: especially in recent years, it seems like American movies always try to be funny, and I get irritated at it. I respect George Lucas for deciding not to make the original Star Wars (or even the prequels for that matter) self-aware.  The lack of self awareness is one of the reasons Shin Godzilla was so refreshing to me when I first saw it!

[Bespin 8,479]

Chewbacca not eating the porg is "out of character" humor. This is not my Chewbacca. My Chewbacca would have shoot the other porg with his bowcaster, or at least yelled at him very loudly to make him scared and run.

 

But Rian Johnson is not the only one who made "out of character" humour. C-3PO saying "Ah, Princesses..." (or whatever, I don't remember the exact sentence in English), in TFA, is "out of character" for C-3PO. In my sense, a protocol droid, and C-3PO itself, is incapable to do this kind of humor. It was an error.

 

Put as many Kathleen Kennedy as you want in the Star Wars movies entourage... directors who didn't grow up with these characters will never totally size their true personalities.

 

But who cares...

 

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Edit

[Will 2,215]

9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I forgot that introduction figure (the one with the chimes) of Rey's theme was in there. I didn't recall it being in the movie at all, with the exception of the end of the credits. It helped me enjoy the "meat" of the theme much more.

 

The intro figure is also in FYC "The Last Jedi," I believe. 

[crumbs 14,300]

Yeah it's played over that shot of Rey in the Falcon, surveying Crait.