The Last Jedi SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

[crocodile 8,612]

I liked Finn and Rose but these characters could have been cut from the film completely. Whatever they try to accomplish in the story fails pretty much completely. They actually have no impact on the plot, other than destroying the majority of Resistance shuttles by having their plan revealed to First Order.

 

Plus...how do they even know about the evacuation?

 

Karol

[Quintus 5,468]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Disagreed.

 

Luke isn't even the hero in this film. Or he shouldn't be.

 

He isn't the hero he's a rank higher than that. Legend. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

2 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

He isn't the hero he's a rank higher than that. Legend. 

 

And that's not a gigantic fan wank? Come on?

[Chewy 2,587]

I'm really tired of hearing people always saying: "what Finn and Rose did in the movie was useless", "Snoke is dead, who's the villains' master now?". It's the same kind of remark some people said about TFA : "Kylo Ren isn't a good villain, he's not charismatic".

 

I only want to say: "So what?". I have the feeling many many people can't watch a movie that doesn't look like all the others. Like seriously, this movie is original and we still have people complaining "it's not a good Star Wars movie" only because what happens in it isn't what they wanted to see...

[Quintus 5,468]

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

And that's not a gigantic fan wank? Come on?

 

You're determined about this aren't you. No, I don't think it is any more of a fan service than anything else about these movies. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

 

3 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I only want to say: "So what?". I have the feeling many many people can't watch a movie that doesn't look like all the others. Like seriously, this movie is original and we still have people complaining "it's not a good Star Wars movie" only because what happens in it isn't what they wanted to see...

 

It's not THAT original. The basic structure is straight out of TESB. 

 

Good guys being hunted down by the bad guys throughout the film, the Force sensitive lead spends time with an old Jedi master.

 

Johnson does play around with the concepts a lot, so its not a straight remake.

2 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

You're determined about this aren't you. No, I don't think it is any more of a fan service than anything else about these movies. 

 

What do you mean determined? Its my opinion of that part of the film. If you have a different one please go ahead and elaborate.

 

 

 

 

[crocodile 8,612]

13 minutes ago, Chewy said:

I'm really tired of hearing people always saying: "what Finn and Rose did in the movie was useless"

So you think that characters should be in the film...just because you like them? One of the great rules of storytelling is that if you need to think of something for your characters to do in your story then they shouldn't be there in the first place. Only the essentials need to stay in. Leave Finn in the healing tank for the entirety of the film and not much changes.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

This is actually true, come to think of it.

 

Holdo saved the Resistance, then Luke. Not Finn.

[Quintus 5,468]

The squirting healing tank, I'd forgotten about that. Ugh. 

 

Plus the slapstick fail when he fell out of the bed... that was one for the very small children in the audience (it was literally silence in the theatre with the large 11am audience I saw it with).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

Yeah, that was a bit silly. I didn't mind most of the humour though.

[crocodile 8,612]

I don't think an average adult audience member is mature enough not to laugh at this moment. They eat this shit up judging by my past cinema experiences.

 

Karol

[Chewy 2,587]

27 minutes ago, crocodile said:

So you think that characters should be in the film...just because you like them? One of the great rules of storytelling is that if you need to think of something for your characters to do in your story then they shouldn't be there in the first place. Only the essentials need to stay in. Leave Finn in the healing tank for the entirety of the film and not much changes.

 

Karol

 

I mean, why should they absolutely have suceeded in what they did? They failed, but why is it a problem really?

[publicist 4,647]

In a way, the goofiness, the grotesque and overbearing style, of the film might be Johnson's response to what is an impossible straddle between saga barrage, modern audience and blockbuster expectations and the promise of at least a tenth of directorial vision by Disney. He decided for a crude style mix and i make a case that he should be lauded for that - it's certainly more honest to the roots of the saga than the painfully reverent, cramped and ultimately boring TFA. I too don't agree with the Hux horseplay or that awful flat iron spaceship and probably at least 4 or 5 others things but if i get a more daring if silly movie experience out of it, more power to him. 

[Quintus 5,468]

10 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I mean, why should they absolutely have suceeded in what they did? They failed, but why is it a problem really?

 

It matters because it ends up feeling extraneous and redundant. Not good bed buddies with good filmmaking amd certainly not very satisfying for the audience. 

[crocodile 8,612]

9 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I mean, why should they absolutely have suceeded in what they did? They failed, but why is it a problem really?

Because if you remove their scenes altogether it wouldn't affect the film.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

8 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

I mean, why should they absolutely have suceeded in what they did? They failed, but why is it a problem really?

 

Because it doesn't really add anything to the film?

 

The whole Casino planet mission is part of Finn's arc of finally standing up to the First Order and becoming a card-carrying member of the Resistance. But the outcome of his mission doesn't affect the rest of the film at all.

 

2 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

It matters because it ends up feeling extraneous and redundant. Not good bed buddies with good filmmaking amd certainly not very satisfying for the audience. 

 

90% of the audience will lap this up regardless I wager.

 

I think we agree broadly on what the main issues with this film are.  But with you they seem to weigh heavier than me. 

Kinda like Twin Peaks: The Return.

[crocodile 8,612]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

 

Because it doesn't really add anything to the film?

 

The whole Casino planet mission is part of Finn's arc of finally standing up to the First Order and becoming a card-carrying member of the Resistance. But the outcome of his mission doesn't affect the rest of the film at all.

 

Well it does affect it in a sense that his failure gets the majority of evacuating Resistance members wiped out. Which is even worse.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

And it requires Holdo to take action and do her suicide run, I guess.

 

Yeah....

[crocodile 8,612]

Oh Finn... Maybe he's a First Order spy after all? Can't wait for that twist in the next film.

 

Do you think that is why he's trying to commit suicide later on... and, yeah, fail?

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,541]

 

lulz

[Quintus 5,468]

33 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

 

Sneaky edits accepted, I like how he doesn't really give a fuck about any of this anymore. It's obvious he thought TFA was weak sauce and TLJ probably no better. 

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

2 hours ago, publicist said:

In a way, the goofiness, the grotesque and overbearing style, of the film might be Johnson's response to what is an impossible straddle between saga barrage, modern audience and blockbuster expectations and the promise of at least a tenth of directorial vision by Disney. He decided for a crude style mix and i make a case that he should be lauded for that - it's certainly more honest to the roots of the saga than the painfully reverent, cramped and ultimately boring TFA. I too don't agree with the Hux horseplay or that awful flat iron spaceship and probably at least 4 or 5 others things but if i get a more daring if silly movie experience out of it, more power to him. 

 

You are on point. I like someone willing to take risks. 

[Quintus 5,468]

Wish I saw the same "risks" in this you guys did. 

 

Frankly, I for a long time was expecting a very different direction to be taken in the storyline for this sequel. What I imagined would happen (based on the very slight look at pre release publicity material I had seen) didn't come about at all though, hence my broader disappointment in the movie by the time I'd watched it play out, in the end quite predictably. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

Didn't the same thing happen 2 years ago with you?

[The Train Station 8,873]

The canyon-wide gap between the tomatometer and the audience score is very curious.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

7 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Wish I saw the same "risks" in this you guys did. 

 

Frankly, I for a long time was expecting a very different direction to be taken in the storyline for this sequel. What I imagined would happen (based on the very slight look at pre release publicity material I had seen) didn't come about at all though, hence my broader disappointment in the movie by the time I'd watched it play out, in the end quite predictably. 

 

Can’t help you there man. Sorry you didn’t like it. 

[Quintus 5,468]

I did enjoy it for what it was, I was entertained. But it was just 'fine' in the end, nothing more than that though. 

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Just now, Denise Bryson said:

The canyon-wide gap between the tomatometer and the audience score is very curious.

 

Screw all the meters. Critic and audience. Toxic aspect of the modern  entertainment world. 

[Quintus 5,468]

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Didn't the same thing happen 2 years ago with you?

 

Probably. Sounds right. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,445]

2 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

 

Screw all the meters. Critic and audience. Toxic aspect of the modern  entertainment world. 

 

Screw everything!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

10 minutes ago, Quintus said:

I did enjoy it for what it was, I was entertained. But it was just 'fine' in the end, nothing more than that though. 

 

We will likely never again get anything more than fine entertainment out of Star Wars.  It’s a business model of an abstract and now even larger amorphous entity, not a wacky vision of a motor sport aficionado with mold growing on his face. 

 

And thats fine. You can get your fill and when you’re done you can unplug yourself from consuming the model. 

 

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Screw everything!

 

No, just critic and let’s English Major everything culture. 

[The Train Station 8,873]

It's a worry when fans on Facebook are calling for George Lucas to return. Geez, if it's that bad...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Just now, Denise Bryson said:

It's a worry when fans on Facebook are calling for George Lucas to return. Geez, if it's that bad...

 

Why don’t you judge for yourself? Need me to tell you what to think?

[publicist 4,647]

Fans. The millstones round the franchises' neck.

[The Train Station 8,873]

4 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

 

Why don’t you judge for yourself? Need me to tell you what to think?

 

Maybe when it's on Foxtel. I can't be arsed to go to the cinema anymore.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

4 minutes ago, publicist said:

Fans. The millstones round the franchises' neck.

 

I never understand people who think they own something by virtue of consuming it. 

3 minutes ago, Denise Bryson said:

 

Maybe when it's on Foxtel. I can't be arsed to go to the cinema anymore.

 

Fair enough.

[KK 3,308]

For the medium and forces it works with, the few things it tries to play with should be applauded. I just wish it was it a neater movie really. The right ideas are there, the storytelling itself is weak.

 

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

 

Sneaky edits accepted, I like how he doesn't really give a fuck about any of this anymore. It's obvious he thought TFA was weak sauce and TLJ probably no better. 

 

Dumb video aside, I'm sure he's loving this. You could tell from his performance itself, and his energy in interviews. It is the first time he's been somewhat relevant since the OT, after all.

 

Ford, on the other hand, probably doesn't give two shits about any of this.

[Quintus 5,468]

In the months before release, I kept seeing a very stern and wearied (potentially even "fallen") Luke Skywalker in the promo material. Then I saw the official poster and there he was again at the very top of the image looking quite sinister and all powerful, almost like Palpatine. There was crimson red everywhere, it was very dark to me that, as if it was to be a major theme and shift in tone (like ESB and TOD). Was blood to be spilled in The Last Jedi? Could Rey actually be seduced in this? 

 

Honestly, I was hoping she would be. Struggle with her demons etc etc and fall into darkness by the end (in time for potential redemption in Part III. 

 

I thought she was going to slay Leia at the end of the film.

 

See, in the media last week, I kept hearing about some big twist that nobody would see coming and that the producers themselves had appealed to early viewers to keep the secrets to themselves so as not to spoil the big surprises this movie was said to have. I foolishly concluded that Leia dying at Ren's hands was it! It would have been so shocking and perfect. 

 

See, when I learn a movie has a big twist, nine times out of ten my brain's logic inevitability and annoyingly figures out what it is before I see the film, it's one of the reasons I try to stay dark these days and actually pay almost zero attention to movie journalism surrounding a film I might be interested in. I was well wide of the mark on this occasion though (typical!), and for me it's because they didn't have the guts to aim for something quite so strikingly unexpected. It's just another predicable SW movie after all. 

 

So yeah, I've spent the last few days wondering what the hell twists and surprises they were actually talking about. I still don't know. 

[KK 3,308]

Agreed. Though I figured a short while before I walked in to temper my expectations, and that this probably wasn't going to be that much more "daring" than TFA was.

 

What was the big twist everyone kept clamouring about anyway? The Luke/Ren fight? Luke's death?

[The Train Station 8,873]

Reading this spoiler thread, it seems there aren't any real spoilers at all. From what I've read, nothing noteworthy or dramatic really happens in this one. Quintus' ideas of the potential twist seem juicy and would hook you in for the next installment. But what did they do? The title should have been "Nothing Important Happened Today".

[BloodBoal 7,541]

[Quintus 5,468]

Wow! Who gives a shit! Pfft, hype spinners messing me about like that. 

[KK 3,308]

Yawn.

 

I accidentally saw a comment about the Emperor's theme before going in and thought Snoke was going to turn out to be the Emperor all along, or something silly like that.

[Quintus 5,468]

Who is Snoke? Apparently it isn't important. 

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

To be fair, did you know much about the Emperor in the OT?

 

 

[Hurmm 91]

Snoke's death was quite perplexing. On the one hand, I was really enjoying Serkis' performance and the CGI was generally quite ok (far from perfect). He seemed a right dastardly bastard, something the movies lacked for some time now. I wanted to see his full wrath. On the other hand, the decision to slice him in half so abruptly was quite daring precisely for the reasons mentioned above, and also that it utterly cements Kylo's status. And at the immediate point of his death, you're not sure about Kylo's ultimate motive, just that he commited to a resolve that perhaps we didn't think he had in him. 

 

It's one of the bold moves in the movie. Apart from that I don't recall any twists and turns though, no idea what all those early reactions were on about...

[Giftheck 1,034]

4 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

To be fair, did you know much about the Emperor in the OT?

 

 

 

Well, we knew we could use his hands as a power outlet if our phones needed a charge.

 

3 minutes ago, Hurmm said:

Snoke's death was quite perplexing. On the one hand, I was really enjoying Serkis' performance and the CGI was generally quite ok (far from perfect). He seemed a right dastardly bastard, something the movies lacked for some time now. I wanted to see his full wrath. On the other hand, the decision to slice him in half so abruptly was quite daring precisely for the reasons mentioned above, and also that it utterly cements Kylo's status. And at the immediate point of his death, you're not sure about Kylo's ultimate motive, just that he commited to a resolve that perhaps we didn't think he had in him. 

 

It's one of the bold moves in the movie. Apart from that I don't recall any twists and turns though, no idea what all those early reactions were on about...

 

I'm guessing the big twist is Rey's parentage. Or Luke not actually being there to fight Kylo. (I'm expecting him to carry through with his promise to haunt Kylo in IX)

[Romão 2,323]

The biggest twist for me was the moment of weakness when Luke briefly considered killing Ben Solo. That gave Luke a much bigger reason for his guilt and Ben a stronger motive to turn

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

2 minutes ago, Romão said:

The biggest twist for me was the moment of weakness when Luke briefly considered killing Ben Solo. That gave Luke a much bigger reason for his guilt and Ben a stronger motive to turn

 

I reaaaallllly loved that detail. It’s the kind of thing you often see in ancient mythologies. These tiny misunderstandings that lead to cosmic consequences. 

[Quintus 5,468]

10 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

To be fair, did you know much about the Emperor in the OT?

 

 

 

That isn't my point though. In Star Wars '77 we are dumped headfirst into an ongoing war between factions which bit by bit are shown to us to have history and motivations. We see that imperial empire fall at the end of that story, Palaptine was portrayed as being the last great threat of his kind. I'm happy for there to be new evils rise, but after that you can be damn well sure I want to know where they came from and how they gained status.