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SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

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Right now, my feeling is that I didn't like the movie very much. My major criticisms are:

  • Rey gets lost in the 3rd act and the movie seems to focus on developing Kylo Ren more than her. I feel her charm and personality get lost in the film. Her conflict is also not as central to the film as I think it should be. Ultimately her only growth is that she is now a Jedi but I don't think she was tested in the way Luke was tested in ESB.
  • Finn's arc is useless. I don't think he grew as a character.
  • The Canto Bight stuff felt like prequel retread territory with heavy handed messaging about war profiteering and bad cg animal action. BB8 action was also over the top and delved into R2D2 prequel territory.
  • Leia should have replaced Holdo. That would have made her sacrifice an emotional high point of the entire film.
  • I don't like Rian Johnson's decision to mirror so many previous Star Wars set pieces such as the throne room sequence, the salt mine chase, the battle of Hoth, etc.

On the other hand I liked certain aspects of the film and I am eager to see it again to see if my opinion on the film settles. 

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Rey disapears in the final act to make room for Luke doing his "fanwank" final stand.

 

It's like how Rogue One forgets about it's main characters seconds afternoon finishing them off because Vader is hacking his was though the rebellion crew.

 

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33 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

 

 a country which missed its moment in electing a female leader

 

Missed?  So there will never be another chance to have a woman in the White House?  Maybe even one whose election wouldn't feed the growth of a shady political dynasty which nevertheless I'm sure has George Washington rolling in his grave?

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49 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Mad Max: Fury Road had something similar though. Have you ever seen so many women, young and old in the climax of an action film?

 

I had the same feeling while watching 'Maleficent'. Just that men there were also treacherous swine.

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3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Not that much. Apart from Snoke's throne room and Crait at the end of the film, there isn't any red, really. It will be widely referred to as "the one where Luke dies" or "the most divisive one".

 

Friends?

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4 hours ago, YoYoMama said:

 

 

In *retrospect* that's how people see it, but at the time ESB was largely polarizing. A lot of people couldn't really stomach Yoda at first, or the fact that it ended on such a sour note where the hero gets his ass kicked and completely fails in the end, where Han Solo failed massively and got frozen in carbonite which lead to questions about whether or not he'd even return for the next one. My dad mentioned to me that a lot of his friends "swore off" Star Wars after ESB because it was so cold and dissimilar to ANH, and what he told me today is that the fan reaction to TLJ feels *exactly* like an echo of 1980. As an example you can read this NYT review from 1980 (a very fun read btw) that feels *very* similar to what people are saying about this movie.

 

Many a cinematic masterwork are not as appreciated in their own time: I remember Gene Siskel didn't like Lord of the Rings. 

 

I don't think that's where we are with this film.

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When you think about the way Empire humanises the evil Darth Vader and sets up a redemption storyline, that would actually have been quite polarising at the time (considering we only know him from his appearance in SW).

 

Johnson was on the right track by subverting expectations. The obvious route was for Luke to have this heroic redemption at the end of VIII and become the saviour for IX. Instead Rian basically bulldozed the OT and left a clean slate for JJ. Surprising to say the least!

 

I do think the disappointment of Carrie not being able to fulfill the obvious story path they intended for her has left a bitter taste in people's mouths, because even Luke can't step in and fill that void now. I'm a little annoyed by that... but maybe it's for the best that we move on from the OT characters and Rey/Finn/Poe deservedly take center stage.

 

Although good luck having 3P0 and R2 in there without feeling like third wheels.

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8 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Many a cinematic masterwork are not as appreciated in their own time: I remember Gene Siskel didn't like Lord of the Rings. 

 

I don't think that's where we are with this film.

 

 

Unfortunately all I've seen so far is very similar criticisms to Empire, mostly nitpicks that are blown out of proportion, a lot of it focusing on "what could have been" rather than what's there, or malcontent with characters not living up to people's own ridiculous standards, not answering questions that really don't need to be answered because they were built up in the heads of fans rather than the movies themselves. The only valid criticisms I've seen is the Canto Bight stuff, but even then that's only 10% of the movie. Rian trolled people hard with this movie, and the fans fell for it which I find pretty brilliant. You can tell this is what happened because hardcore fans are foaming at the mouth over the minor details while general audiences seem to be blown away by it.

 

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I'm legit surprised they didn't change the ending to something more ambiguous with Luke. Brave decision to willingly write out both Luke and Leia in the one film.

 

Thematically though, I can also understand why Johnson didn't want to change that ending. The whole film is about letting go of the past, and thematically Luke's death was the culmination of those themes.

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41 minutes ago, YoYoMama said:

Unfortunately all I've seen so far is very similar criticisms to Empire, mostly nitpicks that are blown out of proportion.

 

Pacing issues are not nitpicks. They're not dealbreakers either (most of the films I like are much longer than this), but they make any comparison between this and Empire Strikes Back moot: one of the strengths of Empire Strikes Back is that its much better paced than even the original Star Wars. Its so well paced, in fact, that it doesn't even need that James-Bond opening that this film has.

 

41 minutes ago, YoYoMama said:

The only valid criticisms I've seen is the Canto Bight stuff, but even then that's only 10% of the movie.

 

Its not just the Canto Bight stuff. Its the overlong first act (seeing too much of Luke's routine, comedic scenes with Porgs and Care-takers, too drawn-out a joke in the opening of the film), a lack of action until the mid-point, and than that the action becomes too unrelenting until the climax of the film: the film feels like it could come to a close with the rebels fleeing towards Canto Bight.

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4 hours ago, artguy360 said:
  • The Canto Bight stuff felt like prequel retread territory with heavy handed messaging about war profiteering

 

I feel like this was potentially setting up a future plot involving the financiers of the war machine of both the First Order and Republic/Resistance, as if the entire war is being fueled by some greater evil with the intent of dividing the galaxy.

 

But that's not really the type of story you resolve in the final chapter of a trilogy. I also doubt JJ will bother exploring that, just as Rian jettisoned most of the mysteries JJ left wide open.

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6 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I think the funniest thing in the film was when the Resistance were calling for help on Crait, and the rest of the Galaxy was like..

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

That's actually really spooky when you send a text to a dead person's phone.

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I'll laugh if IX basically Alien 3's Rian's film, but I don't see it happening.

 

JJ pitched this before the fan division over TLJ was apparent. He might personally dislike Rian's story choices but he'll probably be reasonably respectful.

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59 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I just hope J.J was so unoriginal with his story because of wanting to establish it first before going so left field with it all. I want another risky crazy film like Ep 8, but now from J.J. 

That is what he said about Johnson's script back in 2015: It’s so good, I wish I were making it. "

 

Karol

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22 minutes ago, crocodile said:

That is what he said about Johnson's script back in 2015: It’s so good, I wish I were making it. "

 

Karol

 

Wait, JJ being positive about a a script for a films on which he has a producers credit?

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17 hours ago, Quintus said:

*opens GD*

 

Screenshot_20171217-215140.jpeg

 

Lol do I shite read those thread titles to make sure I'm posting in the right place. 

 

Your post is a lie.  Only one of those threads is actually in "General Discussion".  The rest are in "John Williams".  Please be more accurate with your complaints.

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Interesting how Lee always complaints about JWfan being in the doldrums, yet once it gets active he whines about that.

 

34 minutes ago, crocodile said:

He didn't make this statement in public.

 

Karol

 

He said it to one of his actor friends, who was in The Force Awakens, who then told the media....

 

JJ is a master in viral marketing Karol, please.

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1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Interesting how Lee always complaints about JWfan being in the doldrums, yet once it gets active he whines about that.

 

If anyone wasn't expecting a bunch of threads to pop up when we get a brand new John Williams Star Wars score, then I dunno what to say to that person

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11 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

once we got the early soundtrack to the scene, we understood the tonal and emotional impact of the sequence because of Williams's score

 

Can you provide a link for this quote?

 

It was from the director's guild screening where Rain attended and spoke for about an hour after the film with Mark Hamill. 

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So after thinking about it, Luke could still be alive.  Because he was force projecting so long, his body went into this force void, and he has to make his way back.  This could be resolved in the first 5 minutes of IX.  :D

 

Come on JJ, screw Rian the way he screwed you!

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4 minutes ago, stewdog1 said:

So after thinking about it, Luke could still be alive.  Because he was force projecting so long, his body went into this force void, and he has to make his way back.  This could be resolved in the first 5 minutes of IX.  :D

 

Come on JJ, screw Rian the way he screwed you!

 

The first third of Episode IX will be focused on Rey and co going inside Kylo Ren's locker to bring back Luke for the final battle!

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