The Last Jedi SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

[Fancyarcher 350]

I'll say, I actually appreciated that Luke didn't start kicking ass at the end and suddenly save the day out of nowhere (sounds like something that I would have plotted out as a kid). Instead I liked that we saw a more spiritual side of the force. 

[1977 1,743]

7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

If Luke had dropped the lightsaber before his feet rather than behind his back - the scene would have been totally different.

 

Yes. Or he simply could have handed it back to Rey, or not taken it in the first place. The Luke Skywalker I grew up with would never be so disrespectful. Rian Johnson clearly has no clue about who these characters are. Leia would never allow a subordinate to go down with the ship to allow her people to escape, she would make that sacrifice herself.

 

5 hours ago, Tom said:

I did not like the toss either.  It is one thing to show that Luke has abandoned his jedi ways, it is another to have him be a completely selfish asshole from the start.  Obviously, if someone travels as far as Rey has with a gift that she thinks is precious to him, then it is a slap in the face to that person to do what Luke did (even if the light saber is no longer important to him).   I found it be cheap humor and bad storytelling wrapped into one.  Not to mention that if Luke really did go to the most unfindable place to die alone, then he would not have left a freaking map to his whereabouts.  

 

Exactly! Another example of RJ pissing all over TFA. I would love to hear his rationale for why he thinks Luke would do this (insanity perhaps)?

 

What exactly was the point of the resistance going for the walkers with those retro speeder/podracer things? I can't remember, but did they actually do any damage? At least if Finn had sacrificed himself and succeeded in destroying the nano-DS laser thingey (miniaturised death star tech? Really RJ?) it would have made sense, allowing the others to escape. It would have also closed his arc nicely. Then Luke could have actually physically come and helped his sister by living to fight another day instead of skyping himself to the point of death/dematerialisation.

 

I'm not surprised Colin Trevorrow jumped ship, where exactly can they go after this? JJ sure has balls of steel.

[Bofur01 245]

See, I’d randomly come to the conclusion that the map was to the first Jedi Temple, which would make more sense. But in TFA they keep going on about how it’s a map to Skywalker. 

 

And yeah, the speeders didn’t seem to do any damage.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

5 hours ago, KK said:

  18 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Careful, Chen. Some people don't accept this kind of talk and will accuse you of being a hater hating for the sake of hating.

 

  On 13/12/2017 at 7:04 PM, BloodBoal said:

 

Hater who likes to hate just for the sake of hating!

 

Why did you post in a Star Wars thread if it is only to trash Star WArs? Don't have anything better to do with your days?

 

Ignored!

 

Thanks for proving my point!

[Holko 9,526]

27 minutes ago, Bofur01 said:

See, I’d randomly come to the conclusion that the map was to the first Jedi Temple, which would make more sense. But in TFA they keep going on about how it’s a map to Skywalker. 

 

It's a map to the Jedi Temple, where Luke happens to be. Nobody is interested in the Temple, just Luke, so it makes sense they would refer it to as a map to Skywalker.

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

Yes. Or he simply could have handed it back to Rey, or not taken it in the first place. The Luke Skywalker I grew up with would never be so disrespectful. 

 

It's one thing to feel proprietary about a movie character, another to enslave him. How much leeway does a writer have when that kind of narrow-minded fans hover over his back? 

[Brónach 1,302]

7 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

I'll say, I actually appreciated that Luke didn't start kicking ass at the end and suddenly save the day out of nowhere (sounds like something that I would have plotted out as a kid). Instead I liked that we saw a more spiritual side of the force. 

 

It's classic wuxia. Space wuxia!

 

 

I can't get this film out of my head. It's gorgeous.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

To think you once were one of my favourite JWFANers!

[Quintus 5,399]

2 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Thanks for proving my point!

 

Haha KK fell right into that one!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 14/12/2017 at 12:33 PM, SF1_freeze said:

it invalidates the complete OT and kind of resets everything in the dumbest way possible.

While I enjoy the new movies, I have to fully agree with you there.

The big "reset button of evil" in TFA is definitely NOT their best idea.

 

I've been reading all the new canon books, for the specific purpose of figuring out in what way it does make sense.

And also to read about the original main characters being not depressed and grumpy for a while.

I've got to admit, that does add more fun for me. But I'll also admit that ideally this should not be necessary.

 

Oh well... Have to make the best of what we've got, I suppose.

[KK 3,307]

26 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Haha KK fell right into that one!

 

Still suffering from jetlag. Having a hard time playing catch-up around here...

[Quintus 5,399]

Lol my post was nonsensical anyway mate

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Interesting that the novelisation won't be released until March. They might be re-writing it to make up for the movie bits people didn't respond well to.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

17 hours ago, Quintus said:

Luke projecting his physical presence I buy a little more readily simply by virtue of it providing some real dramatic Star Wars cinema, fleeting though it may be, and the best moment in the entire score. I can turn a blind eye to IT'S THE FORCE explanation if I ultimately find the execution satisfying.

 

Amazing levels of fanboy entitlement. I never knew you had it in you.

 

Long distance communication through telepathy comes straight from the OT, PERIOD!

[Quintus 5,399]

Quite the apologist for logic bullshit lately aren't you. Must be a franchise close to your heart!

 

In the OT, these brief moments were handled very subtly and relied far more on the suggestion of succinct contact between characters across great distances. Compared to what we see in TLJ, where characters stand around and ask each other what they had for tea last night.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, that's the whole point. To suggest a deeper connection between Rey and Kylo Ren. 

 

Having issues with that but not having a problem with Luke doing badass stuff long distance is the hight of arbitrary fanboy reasoning.

 

BS detective my arse!

[leeallen01 2,136]

Can we please just call Kylo Ren by his real name...Ken.

[Bespin 8,480]

Ken Bolo.

[publicist 4,643]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

R..r..r...r..revenge!

[Ollie 1,059]

If Snoke was responsible for connecting Rey and Kylo to the point they touched hands, he could have found Luke right away if he’d walked into the room.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The film clearly states Luke has shut himself off from the Force. 

[Bespin 8,480]

I will try to translate a joke that one Québécois humorist made after seeing The Last Jedi.

 

The order of the Star Wars movies is less confused than the people who invent the story of them!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, Bespin said:

I will try to translate a joke that one Québécois humorist made after seeing The Last Jedi.

 

The order of the Star Wars movies is less confused than the people who invent the story of them!

 

That's not a joke, and it's not even proper English.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

7 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

If Snoke was responsible for connecting Rey and Kylo to the point they touched hands, he could have found Luke right away if he’d walked into the room.

 

How's the Ken/Rey sexual tension in the movie?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Creepy.

[Bespin 8,480]

Just now, Denise Bryson said:

 

How's the Ken/Rey sexual tension in the movie?

 

Mine was quite good when I saw Ken shirtless in the movie.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, Bespin said:

 

Mine was quite good when I saw Ken shirtless in the movie.

 

No topless Rey?

[Bespin 8,480]

2 minutes ago, Denise Bryson said:

 

No topless Rey?

 

No, Star Wars only show topless men, it's PG after all.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Just now, Bespin said:

 

No, Star Wars only show topless men.

 

Then it is a misogynistic backwards franchise that has not yet granted equality to women. Maybe there's hope for her to show off some skin in Star Wars: The Final Chapter.

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Yes, that's the whole point. To suggest a deeper connection between Rey and Kylo Ren. 

 

Having issues with that but not having a problem with Luke doing badass stuff long distance is the hight of arbitrary fanboy reasoning.

 

BS detective my arse!

 

I'm all about the execution with anything I watch. I'll suspend disbelief for absolutely anything if the execution is strong. Those hang out scenes between Rey and Kylo are sloppy as fuck, it's bloomin' awful as plot devices go. I honestly can't think of a solution to a major story structure problem like this being dealt with any lazier.

 

Then again, it should come as no surprise that you're absolutely fine with things like this, being big on Star Trek as you are. Where they conveniently "beam" people in and out of peril whenever the plot calls for it, completely hassle free from a writing perspective. Incidentally, in The Orville, where transporter tech like that doesn't exist, if people get stuck in a bad situation they are basically fucked unless physically rescued. See, that's proper sci-fi; none of that Star Trek easy way out lark.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

7 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Then again, it should come as no surprise that you're absolutely fine with things like this, being big on Star Trek as you are. Where they conveniently "beam" people in and out of peril whenever the plot calls for it, completely hassle free from a writing perspective. Incidentally, in The Orville, where transporter tech like that doesn't exist, if people get stuck in a bad situation they are basically fucked unless physically rescued. See, that's proper sci-fi; none of that Star Trek easy way out lark.

 

You've obviously never watched Star Trek.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He just doesn't understand that it's better than everything.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No surprise really. Last year he wanked himself into a coma over the fan service scene where Vader plays Jason Voorhees, now he's talking about messy plotting? LOL

 

Credibility....lost!

[Quintus 5,399]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

You've obviously never watched Star Trek.

 

Captain, I can't get a lock on them since we lost all power. I'll have to divert power from blah blah blah but I'll need more time! Sophisticated as fuck.

[Brónach 1,302]

Damn, there's magic and funny looking creatures in a movie about space magic and funny looking creatures.

 

I think I like that in this, and to a much much lesser extent TFA, the results of the existence of the Force and what we see happen because of it aren't the same all over again.

 

At some point I was expecting Snoke to do a lot of lightning, but it was only a quick flash.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's a pity you can't stick to the topic of Star Wars without having to change the subject to Star Trek. 

I guess you don't have anything intelligent to add to the discussion? 

 

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

19 minutes ago, Quintus said:

See, that's proper sci-fi; none of that Star Trek easy way out lark.

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

19 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

It's a pity you can't stick to the topic of Star Wars without having to change the subject to Star Trek. 

 

Well, in a way it's not too out of place to compare films and franchises. Film criticism is, by its very nature, comparative.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's not why he was doing it

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He likes to pick on Star Trek because it's too nerdy for him.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep.

 

Ironic for a SW nerd and gamer...

[leeallen01 2,136]

This is probably exactly what happened in the Disney office. 

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

As many issues as I have with this messy film, the "new" Jedi powers aren't among them, even frozen flying Leia (though I might have a problem with that scene had William's not nailed it so well). As someone mentioned earlier, I would have been OK to see Luke wave his hand ala Neo and just send the Walkers tumbling down like dominoes.  All the Star Wars movies add new Jedi powers to one degree or another.  Though I agree with Quintus that it was all handled a bit haphazardly.

 

Besides, Johnson had to do it...idiot millennials would never had accepted a story where the main characters can't immediately Facetime each other at a whim.

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm watching Star Trek Discovery at the moment actually. The Orville is better though. But I try to make the effort for you guys.

[leeallen01 2,136]

I'm loving the Orville. 

[karelm 2,913]

You know what would be cool?  If Kylo Ren was the reason that Leia survived being blasted into space rather than Leia using the force.  Palpatine tells Anakin "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved through centuries of the study of the Force" and something that cannot be learned from the jedi so it is a dark force skill that results in Leia's reincarnation.  Since Kylo showed compassion towards his mom's death and is very skilled in the force, he resurrected her.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

Yep.

Orville > Discovery.

So say we all.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

One of the plot lines I most disliked in TLJ was Poe’s. It rubbed me all kinds of the wrong way. 

 

He’s a terrible person in this movie, and Holdo and Leia serve to only make him worse. The entire arc defies everything that a Star Wars movie and a mythology should be. 

 

We send a very bizarre modern day message that a good leader is someone who methodically thinks through problems and tries to optimize the equation and saves everyone and himself.  

 

In the first part two thirds of the movie Poe is portrayed as a hotheaded instinctive idiot, who none the less puts his own ass on the line by being out in the action. The problem is that he puts other people’s asses on the line as well. Fair enough. 

 

He he comes back and he is basically told by the bureaucratic people in charge, observing the situation from the comfort of their big ships, that this is not the way it should be, you are sacrificing too much, and that you are an idiot you are demoted, SLAP. 

 

Leia is is out of commission, a new bureaucratic person takes over, and then like a classic sitcom refuses to communicate and stares pensively out into the abyss, no doubt methodically thinking through the problem and optimizing the equation. The lack of communication makes Poe take matters into his own hands, but now, starting to take the bureaucratic lessons to heart, he sends Finn and Rose to do his bidding. From his bureaucratic chambers, he deems the plan is going well, and he over throws the bureaucracy with his own.  

 

The plan backfires, things go wrong, the original bureaucracy returns to power, and Poe gets stunned.

 

We go down to the planet, the bureaucrats have kind of saved the rebels but really just fucked them by getting them cornered. So, Luke Skywalker comes in and sacrificed himself to give them a chance to save the day. 

 

What does our now more more thoughtful and pensive Bureaucracy Approved Poe do? Well he runs the numbers, optimizes the equations, and while giving a speech about sparks resolves to lead the rebellion by escaping while Luke sacrifices himself for the cause. 

 

But it’s Poe, right? Surely he wouldn’t be that bureaucratic! Surely he would put his ass on the line and find a way to help Luke buy even more time for the Rebels!

 

Right? 

 

No! Sacrifice is verboten in this new bureaucratic order. Poe determines that being a good leader in this case doesn’t mean taking some personal risk to help maximize the Rebellions chances. 

 

So he literally leads the band, first in line running away from danger, with Bureaucratic Leia smiling at how much of a desk general Poe has become through a rigorous regime of slaps and stuns. 

 

All this, literally in the same universe where just a couple of years ago Jyn and a band of rebels defy the bureaucracy and steal a shuttle to go get plans for a deadly weapon with virtually no hope of success and die not even knowing if they were successful. And that was the message: that doing the right thing and taking PERSONAL risk even when the bureaucracy disagrees is the foundation of the good side. 

 

What an absolutely shitty message the Poe arc sends. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Hater.