The Last Jedi SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

[Chen G. 3,943]

Yeah, I have my issues with the film, but relatable characters aren't an issue. Balancing those characters out - that's another matter. Rey just about dissappears after the midpoint, and than there's the Rose and Finn story line....

 

35 minutes ago, JohnSolo said:

I'd argue BOTFA is the least cinematic of the bunch. At times, it feels like an overlong TV movie.

 

I'm not talking so much in terms of production value, but in terms of the narrative. Structurally, The Battle of the Five Armies reminds me of an excellent Korean film, The Chaser, as well as of The Dark Knight and Se7en. I'll leave it to you to connect the dots, and we'll leave it at that.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

What a total joke of a comment

 

Fuck you. I'm allowed to have an opinion. TLJ is way better than the prequels, even if the score was rather lame. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

I wouldn't say "lame", but yeah, it is better than the prequels.

 

Although, to me, Revenge of the Sith comes close. If only for Lucas' confidence to have Anakin butcher children.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Even if I didn't love the prequels, I would never prefer TLJ to ROTS. One is a competent entertaining popcorn space opera, the other is an unfocused bloated boring mess with a forgettable score.

[1977 1,743]

14 hours ago, JohnSolo said:

 

It's common knowledge that many of the side villains/antiheroes in Star Wars tend to be overacted and hammy

 

Hammy and overacted is fine, it's the stupid humour I don't like, which the other films did not have, well except the prequels.

 

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

The prequels are shit even with good scores. I love TLJ even with its shit score. 

 

Shit score. Really? You make it sound like the single worst score Williams has ever done.

 

 

On the subject of the deleted scenes, this one sounds quite emotional and fitting (and headscratching because of it's excission):

 

Luke and Leia Mourn for Han Solo

Since the First Order is in hot pursuit of the Resistance after the destruction of Starkiller Base, it seems like there’s not much time to have a funeral for Han Solo. Supposedly the novelization of the movie will have a sequence laying the smuggler-turned-Rebel to rest, but in the movie it doesn’t seem like there’s any time for such tributes. But there was one scene that ended up being cut that allowed both Luke (Mark Hamill) and Leia (Carrie Fisher) to have a moment of solace in memory of the fallen scoundrel.

 

In The Last Jedi, we see that Luke is unaware that Han has died. While Leia felt his death through the Force, we learn that Luke has cut himself off from the energy field that connects all living things in the galaxy. After Luke worriedly asks where Han is right after Chewbacca has torn the door to his hut down, we’re shown that Rey has just explained everything that happened. But it’s not much time to mourn.

 

Originally, Luke had a moment in his stone hut alone to sit quietly. Tears even form in his eyes as he remembers his old buddy. Don’t worry, there’s no foggy flashback to their greatest moments together like some kind of sitcom, but there’s is a cut to Leia who is sitting in a similar pose to Luke, also feeling his pain, sharing a moment of grief together as twins.

 

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes-details/

 

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

Shit score. Really? You make it sound like the single worst score Williams has ever done.

 

I mean shit score compared to all the other Star Wars films. 

[1977 1,743]

Ok, not my feeling but to each his own. I've been playing TLJ a good deal more than TFA (album as well as FYC).

 

If I have to be honest and someone put a gun to my head, I'd have to say that ROTS is my least favourite SW score, but a complete release may well change my opinion on that front.

 

Of the prequel scores, I enjoy AOTC the most (not the general consensus, I know). The OT scores are all on a par for me, I love each one equally in it's own right.

 

I also really like Rogue One (kill me).

[Chen G. 3,943]

4 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

On the subject of the deleted scenes, this one sounds quite emotional and fitting (and headscratching because of it's excission):

 

Given how long the film already was, its understandable.

 

As an editor, you're not doing your job well if you're not cutting something that is an absolute heartache to cut.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

But why cut good bits out and leave shit bits in?

[Chen G. 3,943]

I'm working off of the premise that they were too far along to cut the Canto Bight sequence in its entirety.

 

But, yeah, the movie would have been better for it without Canto Bight.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Disney is convinced that these new SW movies need an equivalent of the pub scene in the original movie. I think they forgot it in Rogue One but made sure in reshoots that Halloween versions of those guys from the bar scene in the old movie appear out of nowhere.

[1977 1,743]

12 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Given how long the film already was, its understandable.

 

As an editor, you're not doing your job well if you're not cutting something that is an absolute heartache to cut.

 

There's plenty of crap they could have cut out instead:

 

Hux phonecall

Lactating alien and spear fishing

Fathiers

Idiotic broom boy

Maz Skype call

DJ (seriously, why was this character in there?)

Finn's "leaking" scene

Captain pointless Phasma

BB9-E

Slot machine and coin shooting

Whack-a-Mole

Etc.

Etc.

 

The fan editors are going to edit the shit out of this one (literally).

[Chen G. 3,943]

Oh sure, but the director was probably a bit too precious with his material.

[Bofur01 245]

39 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

There's plenty of crap they could have cut out instead:

 

Hux phonecall

Lactating alien and spear fishing

Fathiers

Idiotic broom boy

Maz Skype call

DJ (seriously, why was this character in there?)

Finn's "leaking" scene

Captain pointless Phasma

BB9-E

Slot machine and coin shooting

Whack-a-Mole

Etc.

Etc.

 

The fan editors are going to edit the shit out of this one (literally).

 

But these aren't examples of things an editor could easily cut without ruining the flow of the scenes/continuity. Most likely reshoots would've been required. 

 

Fairly sure there was a George Lucas quote about something similar from when they were editing TPM...

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's stylistically designed to be that way and we can't undo that, but we can diminish the effects of it.

[Arpy 4,145]

21 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I'm working off of the premise that they were too far along to cut the Canto Bight sequence in its entirety.

 

But, yeah, the movie would have been better for it without Canto Bight.

What's more likely is that the Canto Bight sequence wasn't condemned the same way audiences see it, Johnson et al. probably wanted more than we were given.

 

Without a doubt the Bight scenes are a drag, a poor misdirection and bizarre eschewing of the arguably more crucial Rey and Luke screentime that I believe was needed.

[1977 1,743]

8 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

 

But these aren't examples of things an editor could easily cut without ruining the flow of the scenes/continuity. Most likely reshoots would've been required. 

 

Very true. That's why I have such an issue with this film. It was already derailed in the scripting stage. Still can't believe Kathleen Kennedy didn't raise an eyebrow when reading it.

 

In hindsight (always 20/20, I know), I think it may have been better if all the legacy characters had been given their final hurrah in TFA, to wipe the slate clean for the new characters to take the reigns in Eps VIII/ IX.

[Chen G. 3,943]

49 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

It was already derailed in the scripting stage. Still can't believe Kathleen Kennedy didn't raise an eyebrow when reading it.

 

There’s always, always going to be stuff in the script that you only realize are superfluous or silly once you not only filmed them but assembled them. Canto Bight is just that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

Still can't believe Kathleen Kennedy didn't raise an eyebrow when reading it.

 

She's obviously not as great as she's cracked up to be.

[1977 1,743]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

There’s always, always going to be stuff in the script that you only realize are superfluous or silly once you not only filmed them but assembled them. Canto Bight is just that.

 

To be honest, Canto Bight doesn't bother me as a whole the way it seems to bother others here. It's just the silly bits here and there (like broom boy, coin shooting, parking violation, etc.)

[Chen G. 3,943]

I think the entire setpiece doesn’t work: Rose doesn’t work, the design of Canto Bight doesn’t work, some of the effects shots don’t work, the underlying themes don’t work, the plotting, the pace and it’s position within the format of the overall narrative, etc...

 

Ideally, it shouldn’t be there at all. But on paper it might not have sounded so bad. But than, Jar Jar probably didn’t sound so bad on paper, either.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Don't they have quality control to prevent disasters like this?

[Chen G. 3,943]

Again, it’s not necessarily something that calls out for attention in the script, and they might have picked up on it only late into the editing process where it was just too far along.

 

And really, studios give directors much more freedom than you think.

[1977 1,743]

22 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

And really, studios give directors much more freedom than you think.

 

Tell that to the Solo directors 

[Demodex 557]

I'm not getting what is so horrible about the Canto Bight sequence. It was important for Finn's character arc, plus the broom boy is what sets up the next film!  

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

4 hours ago, Denise Bryson said:

 

She's obviously not as great as she's cracked up to be.

 

She's a shrewd business woman.

[Ollie 1,059]

They could have gotten rid of Rose all together and let Finn and Poe go on an adventure together. Those two actually have chemistry. There’s an established friendship between those 2.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

But without Rose, they wouldn't be able to mass produce thousands of her action figures that reportedly no-one has bought.

[Demodex 557]

*sigh*

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1 hour ago, El Jefe said:

They could have gotten rid of Rose all together and let Finn and Poe go on an adventure together. Those two actually have chemistry. There’s an established friendship between those 2.

 

After all the gay rumors, they had to play it extra safe. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

4 hours ago, El Jefe said:

They could have gotten rid of Rose all together and let Finn and Poe go on an adventure together. Those two actually have chemistry. There’s an established friendship between those 2.

 

That wouldn't be feminist enough.

[Demodex 557]

I think people are totally reading too much into it if they think there was some huge feminist agenda.  It's just a movie. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Feminithm ith our future. Thtar Warth belongth to women now.

[SteveMc 2,674]

18 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I think people are totally reading too much into it if they think there was some huge feminist agenda.  It's just a movie. 

No huge agenda, but I feel that ideology was allowed to propel story and characters, rather than having all organically grow together.  Seldom good filmmaking when that happens, no matter what the underlying motivations are.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

4 hours ago, Denise Bryson said:

But without Rose, they wouldn't be able to mass produce thousands of her action figures that reportedly no-one has bought.

 

If retailers were smart, they wouldn't add the inevitable "Solo" toys to the already cluttered shelves. They still had Rogue One junk when the boring TLJ toys were released.

[Chen G. 3,943]

38 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I think people are totally reading too much into it if they think there was some huge feminist agenda.  It's just a movie. 

 

Yeah, but you couldn't, for instance, see Rey develop any real romantic relationship onscreen, very much because of the feminist undertones of the production.

[Demodex 557]

Who is she going to have a romantic relationship with?  Kylo?  Luke?  Chewbacca?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

There was very clearly sexual tension between Rey and Kylo. She sees him in her brain, she gets uncomfortable when he's shirtless and she wields his sword.

 

He's into her and tries to tempt her to join him while speaking provocatively to her. After she beat the crap out of him in the last one, he's become sub in that relationship. It's cute.

 

By the last act, it doesn't matter anymore, however.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Romance is forbidden in Disney Star Wars, particularly between white, heteronormative, cisgender types. We feel that 0.3% of the population is underrepresented in SW, which must be rectumfied.

[Demodex 557]

 

We need an eye roll emoticon. 

[John 2,032]

We do, sort of...

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

7 hours ago, Philippe Roaché said:

There was very clearly sexual tension between Rey and Kylo. She sees him in her brain, she gets uncomfortable when he's shirtless and she wields his sword.

 

Oh, sure. But I'm talking about her and one of the other protagonists.

 

7 hours ago, Philippe Roaché said:

By the last act, it doesn't matter anymore, however.

 

Nope. By the second half of the second act. The third act proper only begins when Luke shows up on the red-and-white planet.

[filmmusic 1,823]

So, I just finished another utterly forgettable Star Wars film that I won't be seeing ever again, and I barely made it through in this first viewing

 

A mashup of scenes-plots from the original trilogy, at this point I'm convinced the reason Star Wars continues is...money.

There's nothing more to say really with Star wars. Everything has been said, the material has been exhausted and every new film feels like The Groundhog day.

The plot is all around, bad jokes in inapporpriate times, uninspired action scenes and on top of it a Williams score (how did he have the courage to score this thing) just following the action without any great anthology moments of perfect unity between image and music as the first trilogy, a pot pouri of past music glories.

as it was said in a video i uploaded in another thread:

"Star Wars isn't special anymore".

[Chen G. 3,943]

20 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

A mashup of scenes-plots from the original trilogy.

 

Is it? I mean, sure, there are some similarities, but overall this is a new story. I have my issues with the film, but a lack of originality is not one of them.

 

20 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

uninspired action scenes

 

Interesting. Care to elaborate?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I would say uninvolving action scenes. Rian Johnson doesn't seem suited to action at all.

[filmmusic 1,823]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

 

Interesting. Care to elaborate?

I can't go technical. Is it the directing I assume?

All I know is whereas in the original trilogy i was very impressed (the here they come scene and the death of the death star in a New Hope, or the asteroid field, the hoth sequence, and the Luke/Vader duel from Empire Strikes back, the forest chase in Return of the Jedi), here I was not at all.

 

Also, I didn't care for any of the characters like in the original trilogy.

Well, even in the prequel trilogy i cared to see how Vader will evolve.

 

The only plus I give to these 2 new films is that they don't look as CGI as the prequel films

[filmmusic 1,823]

Watching the deleted scenes and some "jokes" i seem to have missed in the final film (eg. the iron thing), I came to the conclusion that this film is even worse that I thought!

How could anyone take it seriously?

it makes a parody of Star Wars.

I have a hunch in 20 years time it will be considered a newer "Star Wars Holiday special".

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Jeez, anyone else remember the pre-release hype for TLJ on JWfan?

 

"Sounds like Kennedy has a lot of confidence in Rian Johnson!"

 

"This one promises to be the darkest one since ESB!"

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

It IS the darkest one! I couldn't see what was going on at all! 

[Demodex 557]

I loved it. Can't wait to get the BluRay.