Ricard 2,244 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Review from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Quote John Williams' new 'Star Wars' soundtrack fails to excite Jeremy Reynolds Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Normally, a film score doesn’t get a review. But this is “Star Wars.” ‘Nuff said. The music in “The Last Jedi” isn’t great. Please put down the pitchforks. Let’s cut through the “John Williams is a legend” spiel (he’s a wizard, the grand poobah of film music) and the “Star Wars music rules” bit (it does, no matter how much you might prefer the less mainstream scores of Korngold, Herrmann or Morricone) and let’s get into the latest episode’s soundtrack. Composed and conducted by Mr. Williams, the new score does a perfectly adequate job heightening the emotion of the film, dramatizing and emphasizing character connections and those other things a good film score should do. Blah blah. But compared to the other installments of this 40-year-old space opera — make no mistake, “Star Wars” is the very best sort of space opera — this score lacks freshness. It lacks chutzpah. Each prior film introduced at least one remarkable, unique theme. Princess Leia’s melody in “A New Hope.” “The Imperial March” in “The Empire Strikes Back.” Luke and Leia’s motif in “Return of the Jedi. “Duel of the Fates” in Phantom Menace.” “Across the Stars” in “Attack of the Clones.” “Battle of the Heroes” in “Revenge of the Sith.” Rey’s music in “The Force Awakens.” “The Last Jedi” introduces a new theme for Rose, the franchise’s only significant new character. (No, the Porgs don’t count.) It’s fine, but nothing legendary. There’s new tropically flavored cantina music. There’s new chase music for the escape of the maltreated race beasts. Otherwise, the music is an uninspired rehash of the previous seven films. When we hear Leia’s name we hear Leia’s theme. When the force comes into play we hear the force motif. When the Resistance does something resistant we get that natty march from “Force Awakens,” etc., ad nauseum. Where was the epic new tune to hum on the way out of the theater? The creativity in the “Force Awakens” score helped the movie feel a bit less like a remake of “A New Hope.” Mr. Williams clearly still has the capability to create, but he didn’t deliver in “The Last Jedi.” Further listening may prove otherwise. But after the crucial material he’s given fans in the past, the lack of creativity is disappointing. Jeremy Reynolds: jreynolds@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1634; twitter: @Reynolds_PG. Mr. Reynolds' work is supported by a grant from the San Francisco Conservatory of Music, the Getty Foundation, and the Rubin Institute. http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/2017/12/13/Star-Wars-new-last-jedi-john-williams-soundtrack-music-film-score-review/stories/201712120107 Mathieu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rick said: Review from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/2017/12/13/Star-Wars-new-last-jedi-john-williams-soundtrack-music-film-score-review/stories/201712120107 19 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: A hit piece on Williams' score! http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/2017/12/13/Star-Wars-new-last-jedi-john-williams-soundtrack-music-film-score-review/stories/201712120107 Already posted! Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 20 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: A hit piece on Williams' score! http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/2017/12/13/Star-Wars-new-last-jedi-john-williams-soundtrack-music-film-score-review/stories/201712120107 Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Listening to the score now, just to acquaint myself with the themes etc. So far so good, Rose's theme sounds like something I would expect to hear in BFG, but it's a memorable theme and some of the action music in the Crait track reminds me of the Quidditch material from Chamber of Secrets. Overall I think this score is everything I was expecting, and a little bit more; Williams has done well to build from TFA as it shares the same sound and textures. Hopefully it'll all make sense in context when I see the film this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Does anybody have time today to compare the waveforms of both the Main Title AND the End Credits opening to see if one or both are just tracked in from TFA's recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 In The Supremacy, do I hear a little snippet of the love theme from AOTC? I think Fun With Finn and Rose is the closest to a concert suite on the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Listening to the OST for the first time... great stuff here, a very riveting opening after the main titles. Man, "Canto Bight" is such a darn fun track! Can't wait to hear it in the film. Breadstick Basilisk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BTR1701 59 Posted December 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2017 "Where was the epic new tune to hum on the way out of the theater?" If only this question would be asked of all other modern film composers currently working. At least Williams is producing music that's melodic and listenable. I honestly can't imagine why someone would sit down and listen to a score from THE AVENGERS or JUSTICE LEAGUE, for example. They're just 45 minutes of endless fluttering string ostinatos over booming electronic drums and the themes-- if they exist at all-- consist of long, sustained whole notes running up and down a scale progression. That ain't hummable. toothless, ocelot and Breadstick Basilisk 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jay said: Does anybody have time today to compare the waveforms of both the Main Title AND the End Credits opening to see if one or both are just tracked in from TFA's recording? Does it matter? Just enjoy them! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jay said: Does anybody have time today to compare the waveforms of both the Main Title AND the End Credits opening to see if one or both are just tracked in from TFA's recording? I put the two OST version main titles on top of each other as perfectly as I could. Listening all the way through, I didn't notice a single discrepancy, possibly some slightly different mastering. But I don't think the TFA OST version is the one in the movie, and I definitely didn't think even before this that the TLJ OST version was the one in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Demodex said: Does it matter? Just enjoy them! What a strange response. I clearly enjoy the album very much. 1 minute ago, Holko said: I put the two OST version main titles on top of each other as perfectly as I could. Listening all the way through, I didn't notice a single discrepancy, possibly some slightly different mastering. That sounds like you're only talking about the main title, right? What about the end credits opening? 1 minute ago, Jay said: But I don't think the TFA OST version is the one in the movie, and I definitely didn't think even before this that the TLJ OST version was the one in the film. This i the first time I've heard anyone say the Main Title on the TFA CD isn't the same as in the actual film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, BTR1701 said: "Where was the epic new tune to hum on the way out of the theater?" If only this question would be asked of all other modern film composers currently working. At least Williams is producing music that's melodic and listenable. I honestly can't imagine why someone would sit down and listen to a score from THE AVENGERS or JUSTICE LEAGUE, for example. They're just 45 minutes of endless fluttering string ostinatos over booming electronic drums and the themes-- if they exist at all-- consist of long, sustained whole notes running up and down a scale progression. That ain't hummable. I think you should have used Blade Runner, Dukirk and Batman V Superman as your examples. Avengers has an immensely popular and recognizable theme. And Justice League is a Elfman score where he was atleast trying to be melodic (albeit with mixed results). Tiburon, Ricard, Mathieu and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Also: Its quite odd that Rian Johnson chose to specifically tweet out that he had the main title re-recorded, and then we get the TFA recording on the CD album. I wonder if someone made a mistake. Wierzbowski85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 That's a very strange mistake to make - I wonder how it could happen at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 The two End Titles are in a different tempo, and I don't really feel like fidgeting with the speed to see if the TLJ is just the TFA slowed down - surely they wouldn't do that? Obi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2017 Every time I hear that phrase “I didn’t come out of the theater humming anything,” I want to scream and pull my hair out. What an arbitrary and useless standard to hold any score to. I understand the desire for memorable themes, but I have heard that exact phrase so many times. We should put a moratorium on it. Romão, DarthDementous and Wierzbowski85 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jay said: What about the end credits opening? They are in a different tempo, and I don't feel like fidgeting with the speeds to match them and find out if TLJ is just the slowed down TFA recording - surely they wouldn't do something like that? I'll now look into the TFA movie-OST main title difference. If they're indeed different recordings, could the inclusion of the TFA OST titles on this OST be intentional? Using the same recording which is in none of the movies to give the OSTs an identity like the Prequels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I must say, as a Portuguese speaker, it was really fun hearing a small quote from Aquarela do Brasil in the Canto Bight track. It's extremely well known piece of music around here, a cultural stapple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I think Aquarela do Brasil is well known everywhere. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR1701 59 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: I think you should have used Blade Runner, Dukirk and Batman V Superman as your examples. Avengers has an immensely popular and recognizable theme. And Justice League is a Elfman score where he was atleast trying to be melodic (albeit with mixed results). AVENGERS has one seven-note lick that is recognizable. And it's never developed or used creatively in the score(s), just repeated over and over again verbatim. If Williams had done the AVENGERS series of films, not only would the overall team have a theme, Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Widow, etc., would all have their own intricate themes which would intertwine and subtlely play off one another. As for JUSTICE LEAGUE, it's notable that the only recognizable themes in that score were cribbed from previous movies/scores-- Batman and Superman-- one of which is Williams's. I take that back, Wonder Woman does have a strange battle cry-like theme, but much like the AVENGERS theme, it's only about five seconds long and it only gets re-stated over and over again. Nothing is ever actually done with it musically. But your point is taken. There are plenty of other examples to choose from to make the point that Williams is really the only one out there these days composing real film scores as opposed to musical special effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just now, Taikomochi said: I think Aquarela do Brasil is well known everywhere. My bad, then, I have no perception on how well known the song is throughout the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 906 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Wtf is that Brazil bit doing in the score??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Holko said: The two End Titles are in a different tempo, and I don't really feel like fidgeting with the speed to see if the TLJ is just the TFA slowed down - surely they wouldn't do that? You're right, the end credits must be a new recording. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted December 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just now, pete said: Wtf is that Brazil bit doing in the score??? That's where TLJ takes place. Didn't you know? pete, Ricard, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Aquarela do Brasil is definitely known around the world! I pointed out back on page 1 or 2 when I first describe the Canto Bight track that I recognized it (I just didn't know the name). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 ocelot and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Well, I feel silly now, and stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Looks like I was wrong, the TFA OST main titles IS the one used in the movie, just with important mastering diferences which threw me off - for years now. The movie wersion has the cymbal and other percussional strikes under the first note mixed louder, therefore giving it more umph. But this take is different: The percussion strike is much more powerful than in the movie mix of the final take, and the first note isn't held as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,244 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jay said: Aquarela do Brasil is definitely known around the world! I pointed out back on page 1 or 2 when I first describe the Canto Bight track that I recognized it (I just didn't know the name). Yeah but it's much more than a theme "that's been used in cartoons and stuff"! 3 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Yep, Acuarela do Brasil is the basis of Kamen's masterpiece Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, BTR1701 said: AVENGERS has one seven-note lick that is recognizable. And it's never developed or used creatively in the score(s), just repeated over and over again verbatim. If Williams had done the AVENGERS series of films, not only would the overall team have a theme, Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Widow, etc., would all have their own intricate themes which would intertwine and subtlely play off one another. As for JUSTICE LEAGUE, it's notable that the only recognizable themes in that score were cribbed from previous movies/scores-- Batman and Superman-- one of which is Williams's. I take that back, Wonder Woman does have a strange battle cry-like theme, but much like the AVENGERS theme, it's only about five seconds long and it only gets re-stated over and over again. Nothing is ever actually done with it musically. But your point is taken. There are plenty of other examples to choose from to make the point that Williams is really the only one out there these days composing real film scores as opposed to musical special effects. I understand your point. But just wanted to point that in something of an anomaly, The Avengers theme/hook is very simple-minded but has tremendous audience recognizability. I would say one of the most recognizable themes in recent years from a major franchise. And I think Elfman elevated that theme to almost the level of a classic theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,640 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just listened to the OST (have not seen the movie). While my preference would be a SW score with a palette of new JW themes, this score offers something else. Engaging and heart-pounding action, and, more importantly, the chance for the new themes of VII to shine properly. I never understood why the resistance march was not used in the final act of VII. This score rectifies that problem and ensconces it as a solid, even "hummable," theme to the average fan. I also think Rose's theme is a very memorable and flexible. Fun, heroic, but even a bit solemn in some instances. If this were not a SW score, it could easily be the centerpiece of a new JW score. I hope it gets a proper concert version. I also like the new smaller motifs that show up here and there. All in all, the score is cohesive and exciting. It is like a final movement of the symphony that draws together the big musical ideas from the previous movements. Of course, there is one more movement to go in this case... My only grip is the inclusion of Yoda's theme in the end credits. Develop Rose's theme for another minute instead. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rick said: Yeah but it's much more than a theme "that's been used in cartoons and stuff"! Yep, Acuarela do Brasil is the basis of Kamen's masterpiece And Brazil is Johnson's favorite film of all time. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: It is a magnificent cue, one of my favorites and is extremely memorable in the film - plays over a dazzling long take shot. Jurassic Shark and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,244 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Lewya said: And Brazil is Johnson's favorite film of all time. Wow I didn't know that! It is also MY favorite film of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 The new trilogy developed by Johnson will be centered around the bureaucracy of SW, and how hard it is to obtain building permit for those death stars. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Or wait, I was wrong, it is his second favorite film of all time if this list is to be believed: https://www.criterion.com/explore/37-rian-johnson-s-top-10 He put 8½ as 1st or maybe it is just a top 10 in no particular order. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Damn that man has great taste. What an amazing list. I love me some Fellini and Bergman too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC4L 87 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just finished. WOW! I feel after hearing the Finale that there's a full concert suite for Princess Leia missing from this album. And certainly there is more "non-rehashed" music in the film that's not presented here, in the format most fans will listen to and enjoy the most. The FYC album should fill in many gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Speaking about Kamen, I'd love to see a complete release of his score to Robin Hood, or a glorious re-recording. armorb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC4L 87 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, Romão said: My bad, then, I have no perception on how well known the song is throughout the world Never heard of the King of Rock and Roll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Maybe on the day it was recorded, they forgot to hit Ctrl-S Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 minute ago, BloodBoal said: As far as I could tell, the TLJ main title as heard in the film was also the same as TFA's. Maybe Johnson was referring to the opening of the Finale instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 17 hours ago, AzOutcast said: @Jay In case no one else posted it yet... Wonder why some tracks are published solely by BMI. Maybe those will be concert works available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Those are the tracks that contain no prior themes That's right, only 4 tracks on the whole OST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Aw dang, I wonder if you're right - that that tweet was always about the end credits opening, and not the main title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I must've listened to Canto Bight about 20 times today. The main thing I love about it is how the score is included at the beginning, and that lovely transition between score and source. These kind of transitions are something I usually miss from incomplete presentations. The transition between the two source cues, however, is really irritating. There's no time to switch rythms, by the time one has inished, the other is already a note into it. Can't remember if it's that way in the movie (while watching, I was preoccupied with being excited that I was listening to a new JW source cue for the first time!), don't know if it was recorded that way, but something like this is probably far less jarring to listen to on its own: http://picosong.com/wFGH8/ (Anyone, feel free to remove this link if it's not okay) Taikomochi and Breadstick Basilisk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 45 minutes ago, Jay said: Also: Its quite odd that Rian Johnson chose to specifically tweet out that he had the main title re-recorded, and then we get the TFA recording on the CD album. I wonder if someone made a mistake. I can almost go along with it being a mistake actually. The edit from the main titles to the New Hope wind segment and then into the original Last Jedi music is all pretty jarring. Doesn't sound right at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 I kinda hope the FYC album has the opening 40 second score cue that's in "Canto Bight" ost track, with a clean ending and no source music mixed over it. Bilbo and Damien F 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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