The Last Jedi THE LAST JEDI - OST Album MUSIC Discussion (No Movie Spoilers)

[DominicCobb 195]

29 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Not every gesture in a Williams score (or a Wagner one, for that matter) is supposed to hold some meaning, and if it doesn't hold meaning, its not a leitmotif. A prime example from this score is the woodwind line following the opening crawl. Its recurring from the original Star Wars. But does it really mean anything to the story? well, not really, no. Therefore, its not a leitmotif.

 

The "map motif" you refer to is another example, where the recurring gesture is not a narrative device but a stylistic device applied by Williams to denote mystery: here, the mystery of Luke's whereabouts. Again, not a leitmotif.

 

Within those perhaps more "academic" criteria, I don't think there are more than a handful of new leitmotives to this work, but there's got to be more than just the two themes from "The Rebellion is Reborn", I'm sure.

 

I thought the "map motif" was a bit more than that. It's use in Finn and Poe, United makes it seem more like a motif for the map mission, rather than just a general mystery accent.

[Chen G. 4,929]

Its the same "Mystery Chords" that Adams described in the original Star Wars' score. Its also applied to the Ark in Raiders and to the Crystal Skull in, well, that movie.

 

9 minutes ago, ocelot said:

Didn't Williams write things before seeing the film? I remember seeing somewhere that Rian wanted to edit the film TO the music.

 

That was debunked by Johnson himself. Generally, out of consideration of Williams, the recording process of both this and The Force Awakens started earlier than usual for Williams and continued intermittently across a long period of time.

[ocelot 554]

Thank you, had no idea.

[Miz 145]

On 12/16/2017 at 2:43 PM, saulocf said:

I am the only one that hear a very strong similarity of Rose's theme with Giacchino's Yorktown theme from Star Trek: Beyond? 

I get the theme in my head then end up humming The Songless Nightingale.

[artguy360 1,980]

My playlist for TLJ ended up including 11 out of 20 tracks from the OST. I basically cut out the middle of the film. I hope the FYC album includes some exciting music not on the OST.

[Steve H 30]

I do like the cue ' A New Alliance'. It's a more familiar William's  setpiece and features a nice throwback to 'Saving Willie' from Temple of Doom. Though I fear it's been cut short?

[Amer 2,371]

Unlike last time where we had big coverage of the scoring sessions with Williams; I havent seen any Williams coverage on the making of the film as of now or Williams talking about it. 

[Meredith McKay 7,317]

So are we close to establishing a chronological order?

[artguy360 1,980]

55 minutes ago, azahid said:

Unlike last time where we had big coverage of the scoring sessions with Williams; I havent seen any Williams coverage on the making of the film as of now or Williams talking about it. 

Maybe he's not very happy with it and doesn't want to do a lot of publicity for it. 

[DominicCobb 195]

2 hours ago, Steve H said:

I do like the cue ' A New Alliance'. It's a more familiar William's  setpiece and features a nice throwback to 'Saving Willie' from Temple of Doom. Though I fear it's been cut short?

 

The Fathers actually reminds me of Temple of Doom a good bit.

[Xinau 14]

13 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The brass in this score is absolutely fantastic. 

Yes. Night & day from TFA.

 

The pitch & blend are better, the bravura parts don't sound as pushed. Generally it sounds like they boosted forces and/or got (gasp) different players.

[crumbs 15,228]

Compare the brassy fanfare at the end of March of the Resistance and the brassy climax at the end of Rebellion Is Reborn. To my ears, one is noise, the other has a sublime balance of orchestratral textures where you can hear Williams' astute ear for balance.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,630]

I love how people are now slagging off The Force Awakens like it's a piece of trash recorded in a barn.

 

TFA is a beautifully recorded score.

[BTR1701 60]

2 hours ago, Xinau said:

Yes. Night & day from TFA.

 

The pitch & blend are better, the bravura parts don't sound as pushed. Generally it sounds like they boosted forces and/or got (gasp) different players.

 

Well, Malcolm McNab played 1st trumpet on TFA (as he has on just about every studio orchestra film score for the last 30 years or so), but the liner notes list Jon Lewis as 1st on this one. If the top chair trumpet has changed, others probably have as well. The studio recording orchestras aren't a set crew of musicians like professional symphony orchestras are. The studios put out a call for players and people book the gigs as they're available to do so. Some folks may be on vacation or working another gig or whatever, and they can't do a particular set of sessions, the makeup of the orchestra will change as other players take their place.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,630]

Yep.

[crumbs 15,228]

TFA's mix has polarised JWFan since release, that's hardly revisionist history. Nobody's denying that TFA has a sharp, detailed and crisp recording. What people have debated is the artistic merit of mixing choices which, some feel, created balance issues. The focus on brass completely overwhelms the rest of the orchestra.

 

That became apparent once JW started performing March of the Resistance and suddenly we could hear woodwinds. Then it became really clear when the live-to-picture performances started.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Jurassic Shark 14,173]

13 hours ago, Chen G. said:

It is a concert arrangement

 

After a few more listens I'm inclined to agree. It will be interesting to see if the printed score published by Hal Leonard will be identical.

 

Btw, were Battle of the Heroes as published by Hal Leonard identical to the OST track?

[Darth Crossfader 618]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

After a few more listens I'm inclined to agree. It will be interesting to see if the printed score published by Hal Leonard will be identical.

 

Btw, were Battle of the Heroes as published by Hal Leonard identical to the OST track?

 

Not quite I believe. The OST versions are always recorded with the usual 6.4.4.1 brass instead of the reduced 4.3.3.1 section in the Hal Leonard scores, for instance. Also, as a little side note, I think JW shouldn't have included the marimba part in the Hal Leonard version (or, at least, marking it as p)- it tends to be far too apparent in live performances (lending the piece an almost childish character), while it just adds a little bit of extra color and pulse in Shawn Murphy's recording. It's these little things that classical music afficionados/elitists look down on JW for.

[Jurassic Shark 14,173]

34 minutes ago, Jilal said:

 

Not quite I believe. The OST versions are always recorded with the usual 6.4.4.1 brass instead of the reduced 4.3.3.1 section in the Hal Leonard scores, for instance. Also, as a little side note, I think JW shouldn't have included the marimba part in the Hal Leonard version (or, at least, marking it as p)- it tends to be far too apparent in live performances (lending the piece an almost childish character), while it just adds a little bit of extra color and pulse in Shawn Murphy's recording. It's these little things that classical music afficionados/elitists look down on JW for.

 

Then the structure of the composition is identical, I presume.

[Chen G. 4,929]

1 hour ago, Jilal said:

The OST versions are always recorded with the usual 6.4.4.1 brass instead of the reduced 4.3.3.1 section in the Hal Leonard scores, for instance

 

That's the brass lineup for the sequel trilogy. Star Wars almost always used a 8.4.4.2 setup - minus the occasional tuba or trombone.

[thx99 1,926]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:56 AM, Jay said:

09 Canto Bight (2:38)

 

So this is a 40 second score cue (Some nice "landing on a planet" music from Williams), which has a source cue mixed over the ending beginning at 0:35 that runs from then till the end of the track.  Features steel drums and other instrumentation that's just like Cantina Band, something that sounds like a kazoo, some other alien sounding synths, the whole thing has a jazzy feel like Cantina Band.  Also features a non-Williams theme briefly that's been used in cartoons and stuff (apologies for not knowing the name of it).

 

@Jay, are you referring to Raymond Scott's "Powerhouse"?

 

 

[Taikomochi 1,318]

He was referring to “Aquarela do Brasil”

[thx99 1,926]

2 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

He was referring to “Aquarela do Brasil”

 

I think he's referring to that piece in the sentence prior to the one that I bolded above.  I'm guessing that the bold text refers to the portion of the cue from 1:22 to 1:28.

[Jurassic Shark 14,173]

I'd say it was nice of JW to acknowledge the inclusion of elements from Aquarela do Brasil, as he probably didn't have to legally.

[Jay 41,198]

Of course I was referring to "Aquarela do Brasil", since that's the actual melody used in the track.  Powerhouse is not used in the score.

[thx99 1,926]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

Of course I was referring to "Aquarela do Brasil", since that's the actual melody used in the track.  Powerhouse is not used in the score.

 

My bad!  I was thrown by the "cartoons" reference.  Not familiar with any cartoons featuring "Aquarela do Brasil".

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,630]

The rhythm and melody is actually quite familiar to me, but I have no idea where I know it from. Lot's of places I think. As "generic samba music" in loads of TV shows.

The Cuba music from Die another Day is actually similar to it.

[Darth Crossfader 618]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

That's the brass lineup for the sequel trilogy. Star Wars almost always used a 8.4.4.2 setup - minus the occasional tuba or trombone.

 

Nope. 

 

TPM: mostly 8.4.4.1, 6.4.4.1

AOTC: 6.4.4.1

ROTS: 8.4.4.2 at most

SW: 6.4.3.2

ESB: 6.4.4.2

ROTJ: 6.4.4.2

[Ricard 2,276]

 

31 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The rhythm and melody is actually quite familiar to me, but I have no idea where I know it from. Lot's of places I think. As "generic samba music" in loads of TV shows.

The Cuba music from Die another Day is actually similar to it.

 

I'm surprised you're not familiar with Michael Kamen's "Brazil", one of the best scores ever written.

[Jay 41,198]

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

TFA's mix has polarised JWFan since release, that's hardly revisionist history. Nobody's denying that TFA has a sharp, detailed and crisp recording. What people have debated is the artistic merit of mixing choices which, some feel, created balance issues. The focus on brass completely overwhelms the rest of the orchestra.

 

That became apparent once JW started performing March of the Resistance and suddenly we could hear woodwinds. Then it became really clear when the live-to-picture performances started.

 

This.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,630]

Well I love it.

 

Me and TGP!

[King Mark 3,779]

i have no idea what this mix thing is everyone is talking about, but maybe it contributed to me not instantly liking the score (as much as usual)?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,630]

How could you not like a new Star Wars score? I thought you were out of your mind!

 

The Rebellion Is Reborn is this films Rey's Theme, several brilliant melodies and rhythms playing against each other. It's quite a beautiful piece actually.

[Chen G. 4,929]

Oh yes.

 

As much as I have issues with the album as a whole, that theme (Rose's) I like a lot.

 

3 hours ago, Jilal said:

SW: 6.4.3.2

ESB: 6.4.4.2

ROTJ: 6.4.4.2

 

As far as I know, the first three scores also used eight horns:

 

Quote

symphony orchestra comprising: 26 violins; 10 violas; 10 cellos; 6 basses; 11 woodwinds; 8 horns; 4 trumpets; 3 trombones; 2 tubas; 2 harps; 3 percussion; timpani; piano; and celeste.

- Chris Malone, Recording the Star Wars Saga, p. 7

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,630]

The Rebellion is Reborn actually has atleast 3 different themes in it, playing off at each other. Like a concert arrangement of the films themes.

[Chen G. 4,929]

Yeah, but Rose's is undoubtedly the centerpiece of it.

 

Its lovely.

[CGCJ 504]

12 hours ago, Fal said:

So are we close to establishing a chronological order?

Here's my analysis of what's on the OST (CONTAINS SPOILERS): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DW-2_W4bTKZb-NeUlL5NUMMqvzDAMzHCH1a8waRH6ic/htmlview#

It's far from perfect but I tried to make it like Jay's Force Awakens analysis as the format seemed to work well. Any corrections or additions are welcome.

[SourSymphony 9]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, Taikomochi said:

I fucking love the motif in “Main Title and Escape” that appears a few times and climaxes at 4:03. So badass.

Me too. When I first listened to this track, that moment quite literally made me smile.

[Score 773]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

As far as I know, the first three scores also used eight horns:

 

 

 

No, Jilal is right. I also know that ANH, ESB and ROTJ use "only" 6 horns. Maybe the orchestra included 8 horn players (I don't know), but only 6 are used at the same time, at most.

[Xinau 14]

11 hours ago, BTR1701 said:

 

Well, Malcolm McNab played 1st trumpet on TFA (as he has on just about every studio orchestra film score for the last 30 years or so), but the liner notes list Jon Lewis as 1st on this one. If the top chair trumpet has changed, others probably have as well. The studio recording orchestras aren't a set crew of musicians like professional symphony orchestras are. The studios put out a call for players and people book the gigs as they're available to do so. Some folks may be on vacation or working another gig or whatever, and they can't do a particular set of sessions, the makeup of the orchestra will change as other players take their place.

 

I don't think that's correct -- AFAIK Malcolm did not play on the TFA soundtrack.

 

Lewis played principal on TFA, too. Didn't know he was on this one as well; haven't read the liner notes. For whatever reason, the section sounds much better (dare I say, "more LSO-like"). It might be due to the orchestration, or maybe they used B-flats this time, or maybe they're just boosted in the mix. Haven't really dug in to do the serious listening to figure it out. All I know is that I like the result. So, Jon (and your section-mates), if you're reading this, cheers. 

 

Edit: removed something that's essentially rumor and shouldn't really be on an Internet message board. Apologies to all concerned.

[Jwfan2234 59]

What the theme in the end credits around the 5:30 mark. It stops around 6:20

[Jay 41,198]

Isn't that the Holdo's Theme bit?

[BloodBoal 7,542]

Holdo's theme.

[CGCJ 504]

It's the music from

Spoiler

Holdo's sacrifice.

 

[DominicCobb 195]

I don't think ascribing it to Holdo is accurate.

[Jay 41,198]

We're all just guessing what themes represent when it comes to this score, as Williams has done no interviews or anything to talk about it.  One interpretation is as valid as any other.

[DominicCobb 195]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

We're all just guessing what themes represent when it comes to this score, as Williams has done no interviews or anything to talk about it.  One interpretation is as valid as any other.

 

Of course, but if only one of it's uses has anything to do with Holdo, wouldn't it make sense to guess it might be something else?

[Jay 41,198]

Why don't you enlighten us with your theory about it, then?