The Last Jedi Podcast: Rian Johnson On How John Williams Works

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

https://audioboom.com/posts/6550481-preview-rian-johnson-on-how-john-williams-works

 

Quote

Ever wondered how the greatest composer of film score on the planet goes about his business? Well here Rian Johnson, director of Star Wars: The Last Jedi, gives us a little insight, accompanied by a cue from Raiders Of The Lost Ark called In The Jungle.

The full episode is out on Friday 15th December and features plenty more of John's work, but NO SPOILERS!!!

[Lewya 360]

Odd choice of cue that. 

[bollemanneke 3,572]

Can't wait for this.

[thx99 1,802]

42 minutes ago, Lewya said:

Odd choice of cue that. 

 

Not if you listen to the preview...

[crumbs 14,814]

Friday! But I want it now!

[nightscape94 965]

Doesn't say what time.  I'll be checking in every now and then.

[Jay 39,247]

Looks like it will be here when its up:

 

https://audioboom.com/channel/soundtrackingwithedithbowman

[MikeH 769]

 still not up 

[nightscape94 965]

Based on the Potter preview and eventual upload, there was a couple of days in between.

[artguy360 1,889]

I wonder what Rian told JW in terms of just purely aesthetic approach because TLJ score doesn't sound at all like it's trying to recapture the sound of ANH and the OT the way TFA does. The action music and really fast "cutting" from one phrase to another recalls his approach in the prequels more than anything. 

[crumbs 14,814]

Wonder if the dry approach for TFA was more of a directive from JJ and JW acquiesced, but reverted to his more modern sound for TLJ.

 

Or maybe they just didn't intend to go so far away from the prequel mix in TFA and recalibrated appropriately? Would love to hear from Murphy about this.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

TFA's mix is a lot more detailed than the new one. It's a pity actually. 

[crumbs 14,814]

A pity that you can hear the entire orchestra and not just the brass section? This retains the clarity of TFA's mix with a much more even spread of the orchestra.

[artguy360 1,889]

21 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

TFA's mix is a lot more detailed than the new one. It's a pity actually. 

You think TLJ's OST mix drowns out details in the music? 

[Balahkay 629]

I'm curious what Williams thinks about working with Rian.  Remember when Rian told Williams to get back to work?? Williams would be graceful, modest and cordial as usual so we'll never know the real truth.

[crumbs 14,814]

They hate each other's guts.

 

Insiders told me Williams yelled out expletive-laden abusive rants from the podium, regularly storming off the stage and screaming at Bill Ross, "you handle this fucking cue."

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

1 hour ago, artguy360 said:

You think TLJ's OST mix drowns out details in the music? 

 

I'm not sure yet, too early to tell. 

Everything is far more in your face though. But the score was written like that so thats fine.

[bollemanneke 3,572]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

They hate each other's guts.

 

Insiders told me Williams yelled out expletive-laden abusive rants from the podium, regularly storming off the stage and screaming at Bill Ross, "you handle this fucking cue."

Are you joking or being serious now? I honestly can't tell on these forums sometimes.

[Muad'Dib 1,855]

He's joking, of course.

 

In reality it was much worse. Williams almost stabbed Rian.

[crumbs 14,814]

I never realized the damage his baton could cause by hitting an artery.

 

The blood... all that blood...

[Muad'Dib 1,855]

The horror... The horror....

[artguy360 1,889]

The same podcast has an episode interviewing the producer of the Harry Potter franchise films. He talks about working with John Williams on the 3 films and specifically how Alfonso Cuaron had the courage to challenge JW to write music for HP3 that was different from the kind of music JW had written in for the first 2 and how much JW enjoyed the process and worked without ego, which is something we've heard about him before. Interesting insight into one of JW's best and most unique scores. I wonder if Rian Johnson "challenged JW in any way." In the pre-film score featurette JW described Johnson as very hands on. 

[Doo_liss 6,271]

Where is this featurette you guys keep referencing?

[crumbs 14,814]

2 hours ago, artguy360 said:

In the pre-film score featurette JW described Johnson as very hands on. 

 

This really surprised me! I fully expected Rian to "let him do his thing."

[artguy360 1,889]

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

This really surprised me! I fully expected Rian to "let him do his thing."

This is just me assuming shit, but I think Rian was more responsible for the quotes of old themes and material than JW and temped the movie with a lot of JW Star Wars music. The Canto Bight music for example sounds like it was temped with Cantina Band and Rian asked JW to write music like that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

Yes, this feels like Williams scored a heavily temptracked film.

[crumbs 14,814]

Well technically Rian was going to offer the Canto Bight source to his cousin Nathan but JW supposedly insisted on doing it.

 

If he was uncomfortable basically doing Cantina Band MK2, I doubt he would've been so insistent. That source is heaps of fun anyway, very Johnny Williams.

[DominicCobb 195]

No matter what Johnson temptracked, I find it hard to believe he was constantly insistent on having so many parts sound exactly like what was done before. You can't take all the blame off JW, guys.

[artguy360 1,889]

I'm not blaming anybody. I like this score and I think the use of old themes is largely really well done aside from the over-use of the Force Theme and Rebel Fanfare. I do think that Rian Johnson's direction both for the film and for the music determined some aspects of the final score such as the use of binary sunset to end the film, the Canto Bight source music, and generally the lack of major opportunities for new thematic material.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

6 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

You can't take all the blame off JW, guys.

 

What blame? 

[BloodBoal 7,541]

52 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

What blame? 

 

The blame for laziness!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

What laziness? Such nonsense.

[crumbs 14,814]

Well, for a podcast due for release on December 15, they're... a bit late.

[Romão 2,317]

1 hour ago, artguy360 said:

This is just me assuming shit, but I think Rian was more responsible for the quotes of old themes and material than JW and temped the movie with a lot of JW Star Wars music. The Canto Bight music for example sounds like it was temped with Cantina Band and Rian asked JW to write music like that.

 

Actually, the Canto Bight cue reminds much more of Tintin's opening titles than Cantina band

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

The first part maybe, but the second part does sound a bit like Cantina Band with a latin vibe.

[Jediwashington 59]

5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Yes, this feels like Williams scored a heavily temptracked film.

 

Absolutely the case. This score was heavily temp-tracked. Tempos line up almost exactly with previous cues and Rian even mentions that they temped the entire film and gave it to John. 

 

That being said, Rian has NEVER worked with a real composer before - only his relatively amature cousin. Thus his normal workflow was probably more dictated than artistically letting go and he probably had a really hard time doing that even though he has incredible appreciation for Williams and probably couldn't think of not temping a movie, even though Williams could probably work around it regardless. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,386]

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

Well, for a podcast due for release on December 15, they're... a bit late.

 

Yes!

[thx99 1,802]

It's up now!

 

https://audioboom.com/posts/6557819-episode-69-rian-johnson-on-the-music-of-star-wars-other-movies

[Taikomochi 1,217]

On 12/17/2017 at 3:09 AM, crumbs said:

They hate each other's guts.

 

Insiders told me Williams yelled out expletive-laden abusive rants from the podium, regularly storming off the stage and screaming at Bill Ross, "you handle this fucking cue."

 

“Just tell the horns to play the fucking Force theme a few times, Bill, so we can bang this out quick”

[Thor 8,248]

I like her informal 'chat' style (which is something I strive for in my own interviews), but she could have been more insightful/detailed for us film score nerds. There wasn't much new information here we didn't already know. And I could be without the hundred variations of the STAR WARS theme.

[Taikomochi 1,217]

So, going by the podcast, it is now certain a new Main Title recording was recorded. Johnson goes into detail on it.

[leeallen01 2,169]

Rian just gave Williams a temp score instead of having a detailed spotting session, and said "go and write music like the temp."

 

That's...stupid.

[Muad'Dib 1,855]

"When we were editing, we had a very talented music editor, Joe Bond, who cut a temp score out of John's previous scores and we basically temped using John Williams music. And then basically we gave that temp score to John and that was our spotting session. You know, a spotting session is usually when you sit down with the composer and talk through what you want. I didn't do that with John, just gave him our temp score and said this is generally the shape. And then John took that and sometimes he went with it, sometimes he deviated from it but he just did his thing; and the first time I heard any of the music John had written was when we were on the scoring stage."

[Taikomochi 1,217]

Yeah Johnson seemed not to really respect JW much was the vibe I got. Especially because he talks about how involved he has been with his cousin. It didn’t sound like that was even his normal process just to send a temp score. It sounded like he was ok with Williams deviating from it, but didn’t give much direction at all

[Jay 39,247]

9 hours ago, Fal said:

Where is this featurette you guys keep referencing?

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28089-look-at-last-jedi-sessions-shown-at-opening-night-fan-event/

[leeallen01 2,169]

I bet Williams felt a little trapped and clueless to what the director wanted outside of copying his own work. Hence the random original trilogy references and a general snippet of prequel vibe. 

[HuberSepp 6]

5 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

Yeah Johnson seemed not to really respect JW much was the vibe I got.

 

Maybe. But you can see it also the other way round: He had so much confidence in JW's skills that he didn't need a spotting session.

[leeallen01 2,169]

 

I have a question though; who the F**KING F**K would think they didn't need to sit down with JOHN F**KING WILLIAMS to discuss the music of a F**KING STAR WARS FILM? 

 

 

10 minutes ago, HuberSepp said:

 

Maybe. But you can see it also the other way round: He had so much confidence in JW's skills that he didn't need a spotting session.

 

He had so much confidence that he gave the master a temp score? It's not confidence in Williams, it's a lack of knowledge and experience in how to score a film. He's never even worked traditionally with a composer before this. 

[Muad'Dib 1,855]

My guess is that Rian was so overflodded with post-production stuff that they basically decided to omit the spotting session and go for the temp-track route.

[Jay 39,247]

49 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

"When we were editing, we had a very talented music editor, Joe Bond, who cut a temp score out of John's previous scores and we basically temped using John Williams music. And then basically we gave that temp score to John and that was our spotting session. You know, a spotting session is usually when you sit down with the composer and talk through what you want. I didn't do that with John, just gave him our temp score and said this is generally the shape. And then John took that and sometimes he went with it, sometimes he deviated from it but he just did his thing; and the first time I heard any of the music John had written was when we were on the scoring stage."

 

Thanks for typing that out, that is good information!