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Chen G.

FILM: The Last Jedi (2017)

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17 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

His inability to emote. His failure to hold his own against a puppet. Seriously if you can't see how poor his acting is then you probably praise Hayden Christianson who up until TLJ was the stardard bearer for bad acting in movies Star Wars related. Now Hayden can sit back and relax saying I'm no longer the worst.

 

BUT let me ask you How was Hamill's acting good? If I can't convince you perhaps you can convince me!

 

 

So what you're saying is that if one doesn't follow your thinking that Hamill's acting was poor, they must think Hayden Christensen's acting was good? It can't possibly be anything else, can it?

 

Both Hamill and Christensen are competent actors and both have suffered at the hands of shitty scripts and poor direction. 

Now in the case of The Last Jedi I think Hamill gives a nuanced performance that does convey Luke's deep regret, BUT the way the story is framed, it never gives his character an opportunity to be anything else or emote anything else. We don't really see anymore of his reaction to hearing of Han's death and we don't get to see anything more nuanced or expansive because of the ridiculous Finn/Rose diversion.

 

What's disappointing is that they squandered more interactions and lessons between Rey and Luke that could've given us a chance to unfold this 'Luke in Exile' character beyond a guy who journeys to the other side of the island to suck off a lactating alien. The deleted scenes are what makes me think that the film would've explored Luke more before someone thought that audiences need to be kept awake by alien horse-racing and pointless diversions.  

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5 hours ago, Arpy said:

 

 

So what you're saying is that if one doesn't follow your thinking that Hamill's acting was poor, they must think Hayden Christensen's acting was good? It can't possibly be anything else, can it?

 

Both Hamill and Christensen are competent actors and both have suffered at the hands of shitty scripts and poor direction. 

Now in the case of The Last Jedi I think Hamill gives a nuanced performance that does convey Luke's deep regret, BUT the way the story is framed, it never gives his character an opportunity to be anything else or emote anything else. We don't really see anymore of his reaction to hearing of Han's death and we don't get to see anything more nuanced or expansive because of the ridiculous Finn/Rose diversion.

 

What's disappointing is that they squandered more interactions and lessons between Rey and Luke that could've given us a chance to unfold this 'Luke in Exile' character beyond a guy who journeys to the other side of the island to suck off a lactating alien. The deleted scenes are what makes me think that the film would've explored Luke more before someone thought that audiences need to be kept awake by alien horse-racing and pointless diversions.  

Not at all. I CONSIDERED his acting against all the performances I hace seen through the thousands of films ive seen in the past. Mark is not good. In the hands-of better directors Hamill gave better performances. Yes Lucas directed Star Wars well. And Kirsh, well, he elevated them all.

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A total nonsensical, abyssmal waste of a turd film this! I sensed a great disturbance in this film and it was the writing & directing. Lucasfilm has a department of creative story consultants but couldn't come up with any ORIGINAL material - ONLY recycled contrived nonsense. Yes Johnson did write this but maybe HE was heavily influenced by the powers that be mainly KK, IGER. Our beloved characters left to play second fodder to Rey, Finn, Kylo and Snot.

The visuals and FX were spectacular but it's what one expects in a sci-fi film and is only the positive point review I give this. Sorry I'm saying this - NO I'm not, I feel alittle insulted, let down and cheated that it didn't feel like a STAR WARS movie universe created by George Lucas but a Disney movie which for anything was created by FANS.  I kid you not I saw three people walk out of the cinema upto to the Luke milking tits scene and never returned & it weren't their bladder talking! John Williams' music was a welcomed relief but was alittle too bombastic, especially in the battle scenes but a good entry nonetheless!

 

So many curve balls to choke up about, it's staggering!

 

Oh well it's only a movie.....NO it's STAR WARS! :mellow:

 

 

 

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Except most people seem perfectly happy to lump it in with "The OT" as the perfect SW trifecta.

 

The point is people constantly refer back to it like it's some new low in SW gross-out humor. Nothing beats the farting in Phantom Menace. The milking scene is about on par with Finn drinking out of the trough with the warthog alien in TFA, but I guess people just pick on it because it's Luke? I don't really get it either.

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True, but I also don't care for it when people start sucking a movie's rod. Not only for blowing the film's praiseworthy elements out of proportion, but for implying that those who dislike it are either missing the wit to percieve its genius, or are misogynists who disapprove of the film's egalitarian undercurrent.

 

There's plenty wrong in The Last Jedi.

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16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

True, but I also don't care for it when people start sucking a movie's rod. Not only for blowing the film's praiseworthy elements out of proportion...

 

Are you serious?

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1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

Nah. Someone will probably bring balance eventually, but it won't be with Episode IX.

*Rey turns to the dark side, Kylo is dead

Luke and Yoda converse.

Luke: "I thought she would bring balance to the force."

Yoda: To be, it was not.  But, there is another.

 

*cue fanfare as message "Star Wars will return"  is visible on screen

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On 10/1/2019 at 3:33 PM, Richard said:

At least people are still talking about TLJ. Who the hell talks about TFA, anymore? Who the hell wants to?

 

I love TFA! It’s the only star war I really love outside the OT. I think they really hit a home run with that one. I listen to the score (either the Suite or the FYC) multiple times a week. :blush:

 

TRoS speculation from what I’ve seen is almost completely based on TFA, so actually I’d say it’s the most talked about movie right now.

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20 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

I love TFA! It’s the only star war I really love outside the OT. I think they really hit a home run with that one. I listen to the score (either the Suite or the FYC) multiple times a week. :blush:

 

TRoS speculation from what I’ve seen is almost completely based on TFA, so actually I’d say it’s the most talked about movie right now.

 

No, Joker is the most talked about movie right now.

 

 

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On 10/3/2019 at 10:00 PM, Pellaeon said:

It’s the only star war I really love outside the OT. I think they really hit a home run with that one

 

I don't know about a home run, but I do think its the best Star Wars film after the first two.

 

Its so easy for the first film of a trilogy or a longer series to get somewhat bogged down in the setup for further films (An Unexpected Journey, Chris' Columbus' Harry Potter entries, The Phantom Menace to some extent).

 

The Force Awakens has none of that.

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17 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I don't know about a home run, but I do think its the best Star Wars film after the first two.

 

Its so easy for the first film of a trilogy or a longer series to get somewhat bogged down in the setup for further films (An Unexpected Journey, Chris' Columbus' Harry Potter entries, The Phantom Menace to some extent).

 

The Force Awakens has none of that.

The Mystery Box Awakens has none of being bogged down by set-ups?

 

Also, if it was a home run, then I'm worried about the home in question. To me it was a blatant travesty at the cinema, a sour experience when I rewatched it with a friend, and a crush of hopes when I decided to give it another chance based on the praise for it's "visuals" and "execution"(whatever the hell the latter means in the context of such a dumb script.) that I have been exposed to for 4 years.

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Oh it certainly sets-up things for future films, but never at the expense of terse pacing, a brisk running time and engaging action setpieces throughout.

 

True, its almost wholly unoriginal, which is its main flaw. But the characters are engaging and the execution is elegant.

 

A solid **** out of ***** in my book.

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8 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Oh it certainly sets-up things for future films, but never at the expense of terse pacing, a brisk running time and engaging action setpieces throughout.

Which action setpieces are we talking about?

Compare to TPM:

Finn and Poe play arcade with Star Destroyer's turrets  VS Qui-gon & Obi-wan on the Trade Federation Ship, aka "They are still coming through" scene

Rey doing ridiculous stunts with the Falcon VS Escape from Naboo

Raptors scenes VS Pod Race

Takodana skirmish VS Naboo Palace fight

Poe playing arcade again VS Anakin & R2D2 and the whole autopilot thing / blowing up the trade federation ship

Rey & Finn vs Kylo VS Duel of the Fates

Opening First Order assault on the village VS Droid Battle

 

Any prequel tops that easily, to be honest.

 

If brisk running time is the best thing about a film, it's not a compliment xD

 

 

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Did I say anything about the prequels? I happen to think The Phantom Menace has very strong action setpieces, especially the opening. Its later and in between the action setpieces that it gets bogged down, which never quite happens to The Force Awakens. Partially because its characters are much better performed by the cast, and partially because JJ Abrams photographs his film much better than George Lucas ever did.

 

Also, as neat as the duel with Darth Maul is, all the twirling of the sabers and the huge leaps and flips are never quite as engaging as what JJ Abrams did, where the sabers are wielded as though they were sledgehammers. The blows have real weight to them.

 

Also, I never like too much intercutting in a film's climax, and The Phantom Menace - with four concurrent threads - takes the cake. Whereas The Force Awakens with just two is excellent.

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1 hour ago, Modest Expectations said:

What a foolish rebuttal. It was a unique combination of various ideas, unlike TFA. I can see the difference. Can't you?


i mean, being a “unique combination of various ideas” doesn’t make a film good. It can be unique without making you think. Or for that matter feel. The big difference for me between Star Wars and TPM or even TPM and TFA is that SW and TFA give me actual emotions, whereas TPM is cold and distant. I don’t really care about any of the characters after its 2 1/2 runtime.

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Where does all this "emotion" in TFA come from, I have no idea.

 

Han & Leia were handled very weirdly. They shouldn't have been divorced without us even seeing them really be together on film. In ROTJ it was just a prelude! Hard to feel compassion for them saying things about their son, if we never actually had an onscreen scene of them as a family. He is like a plot-designed son to them.

 

Whatever emotion we get towards Poe or Finn is hard to take seriously, when they do not take their own setting seriously. I've said enough about misplaced humour in this film in other threads, and how it is worse than just having one wacky character  (Jar-Jar) responsible for all of the low humour.

 

Rey is relatable... until she does Ace pilot stunts, fixes the Falcon in a couple of seconds, snipes stormtroopers with a pistol, etc. We, human race, are not that good at anything. Even Mozart or Newton had to do field-specific practice to excell. And also she is bossy and very clear minded about wanting to get back to Jakku and not take part in the Star Wars adventure that unfolds. She is not relatable to me anymore in any way.  TLJ fixed that to a large extent. I like her in that film.

 

And then she resists a magical villain, and then she just beats said villain. Neither is relatable either.

 

Han Solo has this line of "Chewie, we are home", which is comparable to "Avengers, assemble!" or "And I am Iron Man". Was this supposed to be emotional? When did we see them lose the ship? When did we see them be sad about not having it? We didn't? Okay, the line comes as a big surprise then. Other than that, he has a constantly annoyed face, safe for his greeting with Maz and "I like this thing" moment, when the script told him to express surprised liking for the gun that his best buddy has been carrying around him for the past 40 years.

 

No emotion so far.

 

We enter the finale.

 

Han Solo enters a long bridge unarmed towards his son, who is insane and has a lightsaber. You know Han is going to die, and yet it is not a sacrifice. He just goes there to get killed. Ben says some nonsense about helping him and of course stabs who the script told us is supposedly his father.

 

Rey screams; Chewie roars and shoots at the killer.

 

Later, after an interjection, a duel ensues, weird stuff happens because the script says so (for example the ground rupturing), characters leave.

 

Afterwards Leia hugs Rey (not Chewie). And there is no funeral for Han.

 

Compare:

 

The entire film Qui-gon was not a support character, but actually a character with his own agenda, a clear cut scheming rogue with obvious charisma. We had him interact with every possible character in the cast. He is a clear leader-advisor and a strong character. Advises or supports Obi-wan, the Queen, Jar-Jar, Anakin and Anakin's mother, the way a priest or pastor would. Ok, we like this new character.

 

Just a moment ago Qui-gon was attacking and Maul has been cornered. They faced each other previously and without a spoken word it is obvious that they immediately hate each other's guts like two rivals would. An old master meditates; Maul moves around like a tiger. Then a fight ensues, a dramatic gasp in music, one sudden unlucky hit and a stab happens. The master is down. Big NOOOO reaction from Obi-wan.

 

Afterwards Obi-wan faces the devil, and finally reaches for his master's lightsaber and wins. -> later Qui-gon's funeral, with that great music. Everyone is present and sober.

 

Now there we have some emotion. Well-written, Lucas.

 

Imagine if newly introduced Finn was handled the same way, and actually died, with a funeral at the end. Now that would have been something!

 

On a different note.:

 

The notion that sledgehammer swinging is better than the choreography of the duel in TPM is... it's like prefering a rock concert to a classical symphony. You know, because it has a punch! To each his own? I guess??? I like the relative reality of OT duels and those in the prequels. You know what the rules are and who has what chance to win. When the duel in TFA starts, the most logical thought is: "Kylo Ren will choke them, make a tomato juice of them with the Force, or cut them to pieces. He is a hurt, furious sith, and they are noobs". But no.

 

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The humour in The Force Awakens works better for me than in The Last Jedi. Its hardly the series weightiest entry, but there is weighty material in it: I mean, the film practically opens with an entire unarmed village being massacred.

 

While I agree its convenient to the plot that Rey is very capable in everything, I don't think it detracts from her characterization. She's filled with uncertainty, with doubts, she's deluding herself regarding her parents. I like her and Finn very much. Poe is a bit too fleeting to leave as strong an impression. Kylo's terrific. I love him praying to his grandfather's helmet.

 

42 minutes ago, Modest Expectations said:

I like the relative reality of OT duels and those in the prequels.

 

The duel in the original Star Wars really ain't that impressive: two old guys playing with sticks. Empire Strikes Back is better, as is Return of the Jedi, although we were clearly already starting to head into the realm of "cool" jumps and flips. It still works in The Phantom Menace. Rather, its in Revenge of the Sith and especially Attack of the Clones where it reaches absolute overkill.

 

The fight in The Force Awakens is kind of like the earlier films, but punchier. If we put aside the dramatic aspect of the fight in The Empire Strikes Back and refer to both strictly as action scenes, I should think the one in The Force Awakens is the best of the series.

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The prequel fights are all needlessly excessive (and the clearest sign that George no longer understood his own creation) but at least the battle in ROTS has a little bit more going on than any of the preceding battles.

 

Yeah, Lucas' attempt at developing a friendship/relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan is tenuous at best (funny how the ST haters constantly complain about Rey/Finn/Poe barely spending time together in two films but turn the other cheek to this glaring issue in the prequels), but at least there's more meat on the bone than, well, two dull Jedi fighting some cool looking guy who has no character whatsoever and speaks two lines in the entire film (but did I mention how cool he looks?) and some old guy whose motivations are needlessly convoluted but is evil and needs to be stopped because... reasons.

 

Stripping out all that political nonsense that bogged down TPM/AOTC and just making it about two friends fighting to save the galaxy from the Sith? Yeah, I can get behind that (even if we know how it ends).

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