Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 Will, Tiburon, leeallen01 and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 Perhaps Holdo should've told Poe, but I think what they were trying to go for was the fact that Poe isn't a hero, he is a hot-headed flyboy, it wasn't a message of blind obedience, it should've been trust in the admiral's plan and they make a point of this by having Poe act out in desperation! Taikomochi, The Illustrious Jerry and martybmusic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,654 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Arpy said: Perhaps Holdo should've told Poe, but I think what they were trying to go for was the fact that Poe isn't a hero, he is a hot-headed flyboy, it wasn't a message of blind obedience, it should've been trust in the admiral's plan and they make a point of this by having Poe act out in desperation! But why should he have trusted her plan? She was a newbie to the full leadership role. She could have told him, but deliberately did not so that he would have to just obey her. The same damn storyline would have fit without modification on a First Order ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ocelot 508 Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 But she "Holdo" was not a newbie, maybe that was the flaw in execution. She grew up with Leia, looked up to her all her life and was part of the resistance all along (for those of us who read Leia) maybe that should have been clearer. As for the choice to tell him or not, In any army or group, if you are demoted for failure to listen to your orders, you should not think that you should be told any plans if a commanding officer decided not to... Plus, if you look at real life and take two people in the same role. One might decide to tell him, the other not. People are all different. Stuff ike that did not bother me because I am not her, so even though I wanted her to tell him, it's her to choice to do so or not. The actual problems I had were with things like bad chemistry between two actors and shoe horning Rose into more screen time than she warranted or needed. I know people had problems with Admiral Akbar's throw away death, but even that I loved because in war, not everyone has a heroic death. Anyway, I think we hijacked the thread, lol, oops.... 4 hours ago, Arpy said: Perhaps Holdo should've told Poe, but I think what they were trying to go for was the fact that Poe isn't a hero, he is a hot-headed flyboy, it wasn't a message of blind obedience, it should've been trust in the admiral's plan and they make a point of this by having Poe act out in desperation! And I think by the end of the movie you have this great arc that because of all his failures and getting so many people killed for pretty much nothing, he learns what it really means to be a leader. It's not about the small victories, but by being strategic, and looking at the big picture and knowing when to hold back?! Just some added thoughts... Arpy, martybmusic and Pieter Boelen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 The Illustrious Jerry, John, Not Mr. Big and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Alright, let's see what's going on in the other Solo thread on this fo-WHAT WHY THE HELL ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE LAST JEDI, WHO FRACKING CARES? ocelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 13 hours ago, Ricard said: OST cover (already posted on the Powell score thread): Cue 70s porn music...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Porn has music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Porn has music? Yeah, better than the music in R... uuuuhhhh.... Ooh, shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Tom said: But why should he have trusted her plan? She was a newbie to the full leadership role. She could have told him, but deliberately did not so that he would have to just obey her. The same damn storyline would have fit without modification on a First Order ship. It’s almost as if the film was playing with the shades of grey of leadership roles in a deliberate attempt to highlight the characters’ various flaws. The point wasn’t that either Poe or Holdo were right, it was that their respective prejudices towards each other prevented them from communicating effectively and finding the right solution. Unfortuantely we we live in a very partisan society so a lot of this subtlety was really lost in translation. Pieter Boelen, John, Taikomochi and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 @Docteur Qui If only it were that simple because I think that might be the case, but not entirely so for this film. I think there are two themes that pervade the film and those are the themes of desperation and failure - desperation was the root cause for the lack of effective communication between Holdo and Poe. In the film it is unquestionably the case that Holdo was in the right and that Poe's reaction is what almost sabotages that plan. She has no obligation to tell Poe her plans - in this way I think it's a neat exposé in the sense that it's showing us a role reversal for the typical hero, that they're the center of attention or in positions of power afforded to them as a consequence of their importance in the plot. Luke in ANH is setup to be a brilliant pilot and ends up fighting for the rebels in the squadron in the end battle but I think that's only a consequence of him being the protagonist where I wouldn't necessarily find it agreeable to include a rookie recruit in such a daring battle plan. Yet in Luke's case, it could be argued that it was the Force guiding him, or the rebels are in need of pilots, or that it's simply the case that it was a nice action set-piece for the character to be involved in. Both Holdo and Leia know of Poe's heroic deeds, but both also understand that his actions are reckless - the opening space battle all but confirms this, they barely escaped losing all of their bombers, only to destroy one dreadnought ship. ocelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Mortimer 43 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Ricard said: OST cover (already posted on the Powell score thread): The logo should be bigger!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Arpy said: In the film it is unquestionably the case that Holdo was in the right Agreed, she’s blatantly a tortured Hillary Clinton metaphor. 2 hours ago, Arpy said: Both Holdo and Leia know of Poe's heroic deeds, but both also understand that his actions are reckless - the opening space battle all but confirms this, they barely escaped losing all of their bombers, only to destroy one dreadnought ship. Only? It had a complement of 215,000 personnel. The construction cost is clearly thousands of times more than a squad of bombers, not to mention it probably had hangars of its own bombers, not to mention ground assault vehicles, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Holdo has more resolve than Hillary Clinton. 10 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: Agreed, she’s blatantly a tortured Hillary Clinton metaphor. Only? It had a complement of 215,000 personnel. The construction cost is clearly thousands of times more than a squad of bombers, not to mention it probably had hangars of its own bombers, not to mention ground assault vehicles, etc. At the cost of losing their increasingly fledgling fleet. They were on their last legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post toothless 963 Posted May 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Arpy said: If only it were that simple ocelot, Oswin Pond and Bayesian 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,686 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/19/2018 at 3:07 PM, King Mark said: so basically the JW themes (ir it's adaptations by Powell) are the highlight of the score If saying that over and over again makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside... knock yourself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Arpy said: At the cost of losing their increasingly fledgling fleet. They were on their last legs. Why? I thought the First Order was a handful of terrorist fanatics from the Unknown Region who showed up and attacked the New Republic. The New Republic blew up their Death Star and blew up their Dreadnaught. How are we supposed to believe the New Republic, with all its unlimited resources, can still only field a pathetic resistance force against the might of the unstoppable juggernaut that is the First Order? That don’t make a lick of sense. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Fictional worlds work best when they are not scrutinized, certainly in terms of what's off of the screen. They're just the setting to the actual plot, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Like the Bond films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 55 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: Why? I thought the First Order was a handful of terrorist fanatics from the Unknown Region who showed up and attacked the New Republic. The New Republic blew up their Death Star and blew up their Dreadnaught. How are we supposed to believe the New Republic, with all its unlimited resources, can still only field a pathetic resistance force against the might of the unstoppable juggernaut that is the First Order? That don’t make a lick of sense. The First Order was building for a long time in the Outer Regions. I think in the film they even say "We took down A Dreadnaught" or "one of their Dreadnaughts". Now the Supremacy was probably a much bigger blow, since it was their mobile HQ and a flying factory. The Resistance is a separate entity from the demilitarized New Republic, technically outlaws, but secretly supported by the NR. Maybe the NR had some defense force, but they're not going to go attack the FO a few days after they took out the whole government, they're going to defend the more important systems. Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Who cares?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breadstick Basilisk 108 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 What a dumb statement. SW fans care, obviously. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Star Wars fan or not, you should enjoy the story being told by the films. That's what films do. Books build worlds. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 And TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Outside of documentaries, TV is still a narrative format. You're watching a certain story take place against the backdrop of the fictional world of the series. The world is never (and should never) be the actual subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Batman's Diet Coke said: Is that Donald Sutherland in the back of the last image? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 OK, how does one insert a video on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, ocelot said: OK, how does one insert a video on here? Copy and paste the link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Chen G. said: Who cares?! Star Wars fans, like Star Trek fans and fans of every imaginary universe, have always cared. Yeah, yeah, I know, “Get a life!” Doesn’t mean I have to like it when things make poor sense in the logic of the imaginary universe, or when discontinuity is created. It jerks you out of the story; it distracts from the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 @Pellaeon The film made it clear the First Order were on the path to obliterating the Resistance. The First Order bounced back after their defeat in the last film, as the opening crawl tells us: The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys the merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. Yeah, I guess sometime between TLJ and TFA, the First Order launched an assault upon the Republic, making the Resistance the only force standing against the First Order and their domination of the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Arpy said: Yeah, I guess sometime between TLJ and TFA, the First Order launched an assault upon the Republic, Ummmm. Didn't the First Order obliterate the entire New Republic using Starkiller Base on-screen in TFA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 The star killer obliterated one system, the Hosnian system. Yes I know they are now saying that was the entire apparatus and systemic glue of the New Republic, but that seems difficult to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Look, the new Solo is being released this upcoming week! mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryant Burnette 654 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Chen G. said: Outside of documentaries, TV is still a narrative format. You're watching a certain story take place against the backdrop of the fictional world of the series. The world is never (and should never) be the actual subject. The world is the only subject, given that it is where we all live and think and feel; no story exists that is not a reflection of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,286 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 hours ago, ocelot said: Look, the new Solo is being released this upcoming week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Pellaeon said: Doesn’t mean I have to like it when things make poor sense in the logic of the imaginary universe, or when discontinuity is created. It jerks you out of the story; it distracts from the story. Its merely the stage for the story. Of course, staging is important and the world of the films needs to be consistent. But if you think about it too much (especially in terms of what transpires off of the screen and between films), some inconsistencies are bound to reveal themselves. If its nothing too major, one should be able to look past it. By not delving into what brought The First Order to such a position of power, both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi can flow much better as films. I guess some of it could have been told in the crawl, but there's a reason the crawl is as short as it is. Otherwise, you'll end up with tidious crawl like The Phantom Menace's, or with a languid one like the first drafts of the opening crawl to the original Star Wars, which were twice as long. Not a good way to start your film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 17 hours ago, Chen G. said: Who cares?! I FOUND IT! Something I finally agree with you on. CHEN! 13 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: Ummmm. Didn't the First Order obliterate the entire New Republic using Starkiller Base on-screen in TFA? Right. The Resistance is not the New Republic. They are Leia's scrappy offshoot because the republic didn't view the First Order as a threat, and refused to militarize. The New Republic's capital world and several others all popped out of existence mid-TFA. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, mstrox said: Who cares?! 21 minutes ago, mstrox said: Right. The Resistance is not the New Republic. They are Leia's scrappy offshoot because the republic didn't view the First Order as a threat, and refused to militarize. The New Republic's capital world and several others all popped out of existence mid-TFA. I thought you don’t care. Lao Che 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On 20/05/2018 at 2:05 PM, Arpy said: At the cost of losing their increasingly fledgling fleet. They were on their last legs. Don't let the LEGO put you off: That video makes a hilariously valid point! Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: I thought you don’t care. Any haziness in the political state of the galaxy didn't affect the movie experience for me - isn't important. The story is important. Characters learn lessons over the backdrop of good guys doing X and bad guys doing Y. If you keep up with the secondary tier stuff (novelizations, visual dictionaries, Poe comics, Bloodline) the worldbuilding stuff is very clear. Doesn't mean that it matters. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 17 hours ago, ocelot said: OK, how does one insert a video on here? Put it on youtube, then just paste the URL into a post here. Nothing more complicated than that. ocelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looohhk 27 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I haven't dug through all of this thread yet, just about to so I'll delete (or mods feel free) if someone has posted this already. There is a Google Assistant ad is up, that has very awesome Williamsy music. Thought it might be cool to share in case it got lost in the excerpt/snippet hunt before the release. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I feel pretty confident that is library music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted May 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2018 Hi everyone, I just attended an open rehearsal of tomorrow's Boston Pops concert (with the maestro himself conducting!). It's going to feature the world premiere of "The Adventures of Han," as well as Pops premieres of "Rebellion is Reborn" and the new "Han Solo & the Princess" arrangement. I've got a lot to say about the new Solo piece, which I'm sure we'll all be poring over soon enough. But I thought I'd just share this much -- you're going to love it. It's complex, substantial, and memorable. There's some impossibly virtuosic trumpet writing in the middle that is especially impressive, very much in the vein of "Rey's Journey" from TLJ, only even more elaborate. In fact, the whole piece feels like a hybrid of straight-forward character themes (themes--yes, there's two) and action set-piece. I noticed some welcome shades of the ostinatos from "I Can Fly Anything" and the little recurring octatonic motif from "The Battle of Crait." If it's using this thematic material, I imagine Powell's score should be a real barn-burner! Pawel P., Fancyarcher, EhTar and 29 others 24 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Wow! I hope they’re recording for an album! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,286 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 ocelot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EhTar 63 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 What an art of teasing , thank you ! Movie opens tomorrow in France. I'll make a report! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Album version : 2 1/2 minutes Live Concert Version: 6 minutes i'm not sure what it is, but ithere's going something to complain about and leave us bitterly disappointed with what' s on the c.d. There has to be. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,654 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Falstaft said: Hi everyone, I just attended an open rehearsal of tomorrow's Boston Pops concert (with the maestro himself conducting!). It's going to feature the world premiere of "The Adventures of Han," as well as Pops premieres of "Rebellion is Reborn" and the new "Han Solo & the Princess" arrangement. I've got a lot to say about the new Solo piece, which I'm sure we'll all be poring over soon enough. But I thought I'd just share this much -- you're going to love it. It's complex, substantial, and memorable. There's some impossibly virtuosic trumpet writing in the middle that is especially impressive, very much in the vein of "Rey's Journey" from TLJ, only even more elaborate. In fact, the whole piece feels like a hybrid of straight-forward character themes (themes--yes, there's two) and action set-piece. I noticed some welcome shades of the ostinatos from "I Can Fly Anything" and the little recurring octatonic motif from "The Battle of Crait." If it's using this thematic material, I imagine Powell's score should be a real barn-burner! I have my problems with Disney-era SW, but moments like this easily make up for all the missteps. Not Mr. Big and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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