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Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!


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10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I don't know why anyone would expect anything different?

 

I don't. 

 

But that can only be interesting for a finite amount of films or a certain length of screentime. Its already getting old for me, and we haven't got to IX yet.

 

I think for general audiences, the best way to keep it fresh, is to tell spin-off stories that aren't about that conflict, but that do use it as a backdrop.

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13 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So SW is already old and tired, but Marvel isn't?

 

Marvel has been getting old, to me, since The Avengers.

 

And Marvel always has been an anthology, and its based off of source material that also shares that episodic nature; whereas Star Wars, at least since Empire Strikes Back, had a unified (if at times choppy) overarching narrative.

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Episode 4 seems to have been made with little planning for sequels, other than a vague idea that some would be made. Just some loose ends were left open - Vader surviving, Luke not really becoming a Jedi, etc.

 

5 shows a surprising amount of planning and knowledge of the story for 6. It sets up a lot of things that pay off in RotJ, like Han's capture, "there is another," the idea that Luke will confront the Emperor and maybe go to the dark side.

 

The prequels feel like a mix of planning, and lack thereof. Some big through lines, and other elements randomly added or dropped as the story went along.

 

And the sequels seem to be made up one by one, as they go. Maybe JJ's Episode 9 will try to give the illusion that this is not the case.

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The point is - they are a multiple-film series that has an overarching story - the conflict between good and evil in the galaxy.

 

In Marvel, not all of the individual films are a stepping stone towards the plot of the Avengers.

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33 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

5 shows a surprising amount of planning and knowledge of the story for 6. It sets up a lot of things that pay off in RotJ, like Han's capture, "there is another," the idea that Luke will confront the Emperor and maybe go to the dark side.

 

ROTJ doesn't follow up on what was originally planned though. Instead we got a ANH do-over.

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6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

ROTJ doesn't follow up on what was originally planned though. Instead we got a ANH do-over.

 

Other than the fact that the third act of the film involves the Rebels blowing up yet another Death Star, ROTJ bears very little in common with ANH.

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Well, it's true they changed some things during production. But RotJ did follow through on story threads set up in ESB, in a way that makes me think those elements at least were planned during the making of ESB. The ties between the two films were a lot stronger and more specific vs. with ANH.

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1 hour ago, JohnSolo said:

 

Other than the fact that the Empire has yet another Death Star, ROTJ bears very little in common with ANH.

 

First off, that's a very big similarity in and of itself.

 

And besides, we also return to Tatooine; the R2D2 and C3PO dynamic is more akin to what it was in the original Star Wars; Vader is again subservient to someone else (rather than being at the forefront of the film, as with Empire Strikes Back). Its not a remake the way The Force Awakens is, but it does leave a lot to be desired in terms of originality.

 

Returning to the issue of a marathon viewing, this creates another issue, because both Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens rely heavily on narrative elements lifted from Star Wars, and they follow up one another in the viewing order, making it feel all the more egregious.

 

58 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

RotJ did follow through on story threads set up in ESB, in a way that makes me think those elements at least were planned during the making of ESB. The ties between the two films were a lot stronger and more specific vs. with ANH.

 

The details ׁ(which are what matters in a narrative) weren't pre-planned: they had Yoda say "no, there is another" with the intention of revealing that person's identity in the next episode, but they didn't figure out in advance who that "other" was; they certainly didn't intend for it to be Leia, and any media-savvy viewer will notice that while watching. I sure did.

 

The only way to ensure good continuity across multiple installments is to write, pre-visualize and shoot the entire thing in advance. Star Wars was never like that, and it shows.

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That's something you would only know from reading behind the scenes stuff. Watching the films, it feels like it was planned, whether it was or not, given that line plus Luke and Leia communicating via Force at the end of ESB. And then they talk about plans to rescue Han, which they do first thing in RotJ. And Vader and the Emperor plan to try and turn Luke to the dark side in ESB, which they do indeed attempt in RotJ. There's a satisfying continuity that's not present between e.g. ANH and ESB.

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Me too. You don't need to delve too much into behind-the-scenes stuff - its readily appearant from the narrative. If Leia was Luke's sister, I doubt they would have dared to create such romantic tension between them in the early part of the picture, which was all the more pronounced in early cuts of the film.

 

Yes, Leia hears Luke, but to me that scene speaks more to Luke's powers, than to Leia's ability to percieve them: there's nothing stated in the film that says that Luke can only communicate with other force-sensitive individuals. For all we know, he can reach out to anyone.

 

But Star Wars really is the odd one out of the whole thing, because it was concieved as a standalone film. Part of the issue is that, in that film, Vader is just the chief stormtrooper, not a dark overlord.

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5 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

No other living composer could have written a cue like Escape or The Spark.

 

You can extend that to tracks like The Fathiers and Holdo's Resolve as well.  TLJ is very much Williams.

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Indeed. So much so that after the reveal, George Lucas had to have scenes with Yoda and Ben to: a) ensure younger audiences that Vader was indeed Luke's father, due to the lack of setup; b) try to explain the inconsistency with what Ben told Luke in Star Wars. which - if you buy it from a narrative standpoint - undermines Ben's character by making him a liar.

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Which is to say nothing about the prequels, where both Obi Wan and Owen are shown to have known C3PO and R2D2 only to completely forget about them come Star Wars.

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7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I'll put it another way: what's the appeal of the episodes over the spin-offs going forward?

 

Well, look at the reactions on here about Episode VIII. If that movie is good enough to please the mob, the appeal will never die.

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I don't think so. I just think The Force Awakens is a better packaged movie: its much better paced (the major issue with The Last Jedi) and it has better production value. While its very linear, characters like Finn and Han don't feel shortchanged: the film manages to balance all three of them, which is more than I can say for The Last Jedi; Also, while Hux, Snoke and Phasma are empty shells in both, at least they aren't so over-the-top in The Force Awakens, so I would say the acting is better, too.

 

Also, JJ's humor is much more organic (if far too abundant) to the story, and he doesn't feel like he's lacking restraint in the way Rian Johnson does: I know originally Abrams planned another subplot in the finale involving a chase over the snowy surface of Starkiller Base, but in the end he had the nous to cut it, which is more than can be said to a lot of stuff in The Last Jedi.

 

I don't bring him up a lot, but Chris Stuckmann knows his cinema, and he does agree with me:

 

Revenge of the Sith is far less well packaged than either of the two, but I just appreciate the audacity of Lucas to present a Star Wars film that is an outright tragedy. Its the only one that ends with the bad guys being triumphant, and for that to happen in the last film in a trilogy is very unusual

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3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Indeed. So much so that after the reveal, George Lucas had to have scenes with Yoda and Ben to: a) ensure younger audiences that Vader was indeed Luke's father, due to the lack of setup; b) try to explain the inconsistency with what Ben told Luke in Star Wars. which - if you buy it from a narrative standpoint - undermines Ben's character by making him a liar.

 

When seen with the full OT as context (or even just SW and ESB), Obi-Wan in ESB is completely bonkers anyway.

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6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

First off, that's a very big similarity in and of itself.

 

I know. That's why I brought it up; it's the biggest similarity between the two films.

 

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

...we also return to Tatooine...

 

How is this a legit example of ROTJ copying ANH? The locale is used in entirely different ways in each movie; in ANH, it's established as the homeworld of the main character, which he eventually leaves on his quest, and in ROTJ, he returns to the planet to save an old friend from a mafia boss. Same planet, two entirely different narrative purposes in each respective film.

 

In ROTK, you see the four hobbits return to their home in the Shire after their quest; does that make ROTK derivative of FOTR?

 

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

...the R2D2 and C3PO dynamic is more akin to what it was in the original Star Wars...

 

Uh, their dynamic has always been the same throughout the OT. Maybe you brought this up because the duo don't have much screentime together in ESB? Regardless, dynamics between characters ≠ copying narrative points from other films.

 

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

...Vader is again subservient to someone else...

 

Yes, like he's always been in the OT. In ANH, he is under the authority of Moff Tarkin, at least while aboard the Death Star, and under the charge of the emperor in ESB. I don't see why you're faulting ROTJ for simply carrying out what has already been established in previous episodes; Vader has always been the enigmatic henchman under another baddie.

 

All of these points are just examples of your tendency to nitpick in the extreme. Hardly legitimate examples of ROTJ's derivativeness of ANH.

 

6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Yes!

 

No!

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7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Always weird to see how livelong OT fans seem to be blind to the flaws of that trilogy, in particularly ROTJ. 

 

Rose tinted glasses I guess.

 

Are you referring to me? I'm perfectly aware of the flaws of the trilogy, it's just that some on this forum blow them out of proportion, especially when it comes to ROTJ.

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1 minute ago, JohnSolo said:

some on this forum blow them out of proportion, especially when it comes to ROTJ.

 

To me, out of the entirety of Return of the Jedi (which is also the longest of the first three) only Luke and Vader's story works. Everything else - Jabba, the Ewoks, the action sequences, Han and Leia, the Droids - none of it really works. So I wouldn't say I'm blowing it out of proportions.

 

Its a good thing the Luke/Vader story is so strong that one can kind of look past a lot of the drawbacks, but still!

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25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

To me, out of the entirety of Return of the Jedi (which is also the longest of the first three) only Luke and Vader's story works. Everything else - Jabba, the Ewoks, the action sequences, Han and Leia, the Droids - none of it really works. So I wouldn't say I'm blowing it out of proportions.

 

While I agree with a good deal of what you just stated, I still personally find enjoyment in ROTJ, much like how you find enjoyment in the Hobbit trilogy. It may not be as strong of ESB or ANH, but I still enjoy it. Yes, the script is thin, the "Lucas-cutesy humor" is off-putting, and some of the cast members just phoned in their performances. But it is still undeniably a Star Wars film, something I honestly can't say about the prequels. Also, I'm glad we can agree on the throne room scenes being the best in the film. The juxtaposition of a wizened old sorcerer in this elaborate sci-fi setting is marvelously done.

 

What I can't stand are people like @Stefancos, who think people who happen to find enjoyment in somewhat flawed films are just wearing "rose-colored glasses". That just irks and annoys me.

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53 minutes ago, JohnSolo said:

I still personally find enjoyment in ROTJ, much like how you find enjoyment in the Hobbit trilogy.

 

I don't know if that's the same thing. I don't "find enjoyment" (which, to me, implies a sort of apologetic, guilty-pleasure kind of appreciation of a film), I think they are good movies, and I can explain why, in a way that's grounded in film theory. That's the difference between someone who truly sees films through rose-tinted glasses and someone who doesn't. Its the difference between the one who is hand-waving, and the one who truly rationalizes his view.

 

Not that I think Return of the Jedi is bad by any means! But I don't like it very much and - again - I can explain why in terms of film theory.

 

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3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I never said it did? It was a playful jab at Stefan for his fondness of Star Trek, nothing more.

 

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

Yeah, fuck you!

 

Likewise!

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On 08 March 2018 at 5:24 PM, JohnSolo said:

What I can't stand are people like @Stefancos, who think people who happen to find enjoyment in somewhat flawed films are just wearing "rose-colored glasses". That just irks and annoys me.

 

Or if you express dislike for certain aspects of TLJ you get called a "f***ing fanboy" (as if it's supposed to be a derogatory term, lol).

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I'm not sure if this is a double post or not, sorry if it is.

 

He's quitting after Episode IX. I'm sure we all saw this coming. Who will score the Star Wars franchise, if they do indeed continue the Episodes?

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2018/03/composer-john-williams-to-quit-scoring-star-wars-franchise.html

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You know, The JAMES BOND Franchise was scored by more than just ONE composer, and THAT was DURING the Franchises continual run, from the beginning!

John Barry started BOND, but he wasn't always there, for successive BOND movies, because, maybe he didn't WANT to work on JUST "Bond Movies" forever.

Ever think about that?

 

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He decided to quit IX and go score Ready Player One! 

Just imagine, him tossing aside the baton while recording IX, tearfully exclaiming "W-What am I DOING?! I can't leave Steven for THIS!", and then he rushes out the door to be reunited with his ol' pal. 

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2 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

He decided to quit IX and go score Ready Player One! 

Just imagine, him tossing aside the baton while recording IX, tearfully exclaiming "W-What am I DOING?! I can't leave Steven for THIS!", and then he rushes out the door to be reunited with his ol' pal. 

 

That's the dramatic, heartwarming finale to The Maestro Part II.

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