Here is what other composers are saying about John Williams

[Taikomochi 1,136]

3 hours ago, publicist said:

The bicycle music wasn't the only passage from E. T.'s tearful goodbye sequence that takes its cue from Hanson.

 

And while it's inevitable that such mentions arouse fan wrath, i always get a chuckle when that dreaded sentence appears 'JW did it better'...yeah sure, when your point of reference is a heart tugging movie from your formative years, sure, beats Hanson. But it's also true that such opinions are 99.99% held by guys who never listen to anything but film music and/or have little knowledge of the classical repertoire.

Well, that ain’t me because I listen to plenty of classical. I wouldn’t presume what anyone else does or doesn’t listen to because I would have no way of knowing, nor would I attempt to invalidate and gatekeep their opinions based on that info. 

[publicist 4,643]

5 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

Well, that ain’t me because I listen to plenty of classical. I wouldn’t presume what anyone else does or doesn’t listen to because I would have no way of knowing, nor would I attempt to invalidate and gatekeep their opinions based on that info. 

 

It has nothing to do with gatekeeping to point out that such a comment is close-minded and ignorant. Guys who listen to Hanson et al. FIRST would of course recognize this music in E. T. but it's unlikely that their first reaction is 'gee, that's so much better than what Hanson did'. It's imho a typical fan reaction - in the worst sense.

[TownerFan 4,983]

It's a known fact that Spielberg and editor Carol Littleton used excerpts of Hanson's Romantic Symphony as part of the temp track (it was even used in the teaser trailer of the film) so it's safe to assume that JW agreed with them that it was with the right choice tonally (I guess especially for its sentimental quality) and he certainly decided to stay close to it in a few bits of the last reel. However, if we look and listen close enough, we can firmly say that it's 5% inspiration from Hanson and 95% JW's own creation. He frequently spoke about the challenge that the cue posed to him in terms of sync points, tempo and overall shape, so it's more than likely that he spent several weeks honing and crafting those final 10 minutes until the cue was perfect to his own inner ear. In the end, he settled to accept the suggestion from the temp, but it's all filtered through his own voice and personality to the point that when we listen to that piece we hear John Williams, not somebody just lifting pages from Howard Hanson and plastering them onto the film. And that's how a good film composer has to navigate through what's requested to him/her to do and what is musically congruous while not looking like he/she is cheating. Of course there are many degrees of how composers do these things and it's true that sometimes the lifts are very clear, but as someone else said above, film composers have to comply to what the filmmakers are asking and sometimes aping the temp is the only way to get out alive.

 

Also, on a broader point, it's always kind of sad to see people in academia still banging on the same subject over and over. I realize it's a very small minority nowadays as film music is not that Cinderella of the musical arts anymore, so it's not even worth to spend time defending Williams or anyone else to the eyes of who is still carrying a prejudice against them. As someone else said, Williams looks like an easy target to these people as he's famous and successful so that he really is the perfect example of a composer carrying that stygma. However, one wonders if these people actually spend time listening to the full score of E.T. or Star Wars before launching into the tirade "Williams is a thief" etc. E.T. for example is really a lot more than those few bars that are modeled after Howard Hanson.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

Very. Well. Said.

[GerateWohl 4,349]

In the meantime you can even mark it as a sign of quality, if there is even anything in the motion picture score that is relatable to anything significantly classical. 
But when it comes to originality in film music, I think, in a way it is in a way an easy field of work. First of all nowadays nobody seems to expect or demand anything significant or original in terms of themes or melodies or composition. And even if the composer creates something melodic, he or she can always claim, this was just supposed to serve the picture and not to be good or original music. So, there is always the easy way out, a backdoor that the composer of absolute music or other programmatic music doesn’t have.

I mean, it just takes out a lot of the pressure to be overly original. Ironically an environment where the creativity of crafts men like Williams blooms especially. 

[Fabulin 3,510]

A tempest in a teacup over a living vestige of mid-20th century academic views with an axe to grind.

 

It is beyond obvious that Williams does not fit into his historical narratives other than as a footnote. Move along...

[Tom 4,650]

There is a joke about economists that runs like this: an Economist is a person who sees something that works in practice and wonders if it would work in theory.  I think there is something analogous going on with academics who offer theoretical arguments to the effect that Williams is not good.  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

That Freddie Mercury moustache really didn't do him any favours.

[Loert 2,511]

I bet £100 he's secretly jealous of JW and listens to the E.T. chase every night.

[Aliandra 90]

More JW negativity, from the late contemporary classical composer Harrison Birtwistle:

 

"You know classical music has become debased. This is another subject, for another day. There's a battle somewhere, a desire for classical music to be simple, in two-minute sound bites. And people say, 'Why doesn't he/she write music like John Williams?' [Starts la-la-ing the theme tune to Star Wars.] You see. It's all two-minute soundbites. You know they play concerts, whole concerts, of this stuff...?"

 

Source: The book Harrison Birtwistle: Wild Tracks - A Conversation Diary with Fiona Maddocks (released in 2014).

 

 

[Tom 4,650]

1 hour ago, Aliandra said:

More JW negativity, from the late contemporary classical composer Harrison Birtwistle:

 

"You know classical music has become debased. This is another subject, for another day. There's a battle somewhere, a desire for classical music to be simple, in two-minute sound bites. And people say, 'Why doesn't he/she write music like John Williams?' [Starts la-la-ing the theme tune to Star Wars.] You see. It's all two-minute soundbites. You know they play concerts, whole concerts, of this stuff...?"

 

Source: The book Harrison Birtwistle: Wild Tracks - A Conversation Diary with Fiona Maddocks (released in 2014).

 

 

What I hate is when a person has to appeal to extreme exaggerations/falsehoods to make a point.  SW would be a five minute soundbite.  If accuracy does not help establish your point, maybe you don't have a good point.  Plus, you listen to a Beethoven symphony (which I really do like), and he will repeat the same damn 3 minute section without any real modification.   

[Alex 2,835]

4 hours ago, Aliandra said:

More JW negativity, from the late contemporary classical composer Harrison Birtwistle:

 

"You know classical music has become debased. This is another subject, for another day. There's a battle somewhere, a desire for classical music to be simple, in two-minute sound bites. And people say, 'Why doesn't he/she write music like John Williams?' [Starts la-la-ing the theme tune to Star Wars.] You see. It's all two-minute soundbites. You know they play concerts, whole concerts, of this stuff...?"

 

Source: The book Harrison Birtwistle: Wild Tracks - A Conversation Diary with Fiona Maddocks (released in 2014).

 

 

 

[HyenaBoy 29]

4 hours ago, Aliandra said:

More JW negativity, from the late contemporary classical composer Harrison Birtwistle:

 

"You know classical music has become debased. This is another subject, for another day. There's a battle somewhere, a desire for classical music to be simple, in two-minute sound bites. And people say, 'Why doesn't he/she write music like John Williams?' [Starts la-la-ing the theme tune to Star Wars.] You see. It's all two-minute soundbites. You know they play concerts, whole concerts, of this stuff...?"

 

Source: The book Harrison Birtwistle: Wild Tracks - A Conversation Diary with Fiona Maddocks (released in 2014).

 

 

I guess he was more of a Hans Zimmer guy?

[Loert 2,511]

I find Birtwistle's music interesting, but his point there is just confusing. Star Wars is film music, not classical music. Sure, it could pass as classical music, just like Stravinsky's ballets can pass as film music. But you can't say that Star Wars is representative of classical music. There are film music concerts, then there are classical music concerts. There are even LtP concerts...but it's not classical music. Listen to John Williams' classical music, then we'll talk!

 

(Or maybe more correct to say "concert" music instead of "classical" music)

[GerateWohl 4,349]

I think, it is more a question, why contemporary composer 's music for the concert hall, including Williams' don't contain humable tunes anymore. Beethoven has it often, Brahms has it sometimes. Tchaikovsky.

But since the 20th century it is just the question of tonal or atonal. Humable tunes are for pop music.

There are a few exceptions of course. But at least in the 20th century film music preserved in a way the tradition of usage of "hit tunes" in orchestral music. 

Classic fans are humming Beethoven's ode to joy, Ravel's Bolero and Verdi's triumph march from Aida. Try that with any concert work from the past 60 years.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

JW is a true gentleman.

He is the very epitome of the adage: "If you can't say anything good about someone, don't say anything at all".

The only time I've heard anything remotely "bad" about a fellow professional, is "I don't think I can work with that man", said about Richard Lester. Pretty scathing, huh? 

[DangerMotif 1,037]

Are there any quotes about JW’s talking about any composers of recent years?

[ThePenitentMan1 743]

5 minutes ago, Gibster said:

Are there any quotes about JW’s talking about any composers of recent years?

"I don't think I can work with that Hanz Zimmer fellow"

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

2 hours ago, Gibster said:

Are there any quotes about JW’s talking about any composers of recent years?

 

I remember him praising Thomas Adès in one of his recent interviews, but I can't recall which one that was.

[Aliandra 90]

Yeah, he praised Thomas Adés as a "genuine genius", in the Classic FM interview I believe:

 

 

Perhaps also of interest: 

 

 

[Aliandra 90]

.

[toothless 963]

 

[toothless 963]

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/culture/cinema/star-wars-indiana-jones-jurassic-park-john-williams-le-compositeur-qui-a-change-la-facon-dont-vous-ecoutez-les-films_5607740.html

[Loert 2,511]

On 21/02/2023 at 11:29 AM, toothless said:

 

 

"We wanted to make Hogwarts Legacy our own"...yeah, Hiccup and Toothless would like to have a word!

[pete 907]

Douglas Helvering absolutely gushes over Williams in this May 4 reaction video to... the heavy metal Imperial March performance by Galactic Empire. He usually does reactions to rock and heavier songs and instrumentalists like Steve Vai and Yngwie Malmstee etc. While it's the heavy metal version, he takes the time to explore why the Imperial March is so interesting and a little unusual harmonically. Since he normally explores heavier rock, it was nice surprise to hear him say he considers Williams is among the greats! Wish he would do more!