Popular Post Lewya 360 Posted February 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2018 David Lynch reportedly didn't want to direct Star Wars: Return of the Jedi because John Williams was involved according to producer Gary Kurtz. I am sure it wasn't the only reason why he didn't want to do it, but it was a part of the reason. Francis Ford Coppola praised Catch Me If You Can. Guillermo del Toro praised the Catch Me If You Can score too. Can you think of any more comments from directors on Williams and/or his scores? Help and post more. I am interested to know the ones I might have missed/don't know of. Excluding all of the directors Williams has worked with here, because that is obvious stuff. James, Will and John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I seem to recall reading that Mike Newell dissed JW over Harry Potter sounding too childish or something. I've searched in vain trying to find that article, I'm almost sure it was posted here on JWFan a few months after HPGOF was released. airmanjerm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I read an article where McG (Terminator Salvation) dissed Williams's music as being "unsubtle" or something like that. Funny hearing the talk of "subtlety" coming from the director of Terminator Salvation (and literally nothing else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Another one I just remembered: Paul Thomas Anderson mentioned that he loved listening to John Williams as a teenager and that his collaboration with Spielberg influcenced him. DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lewya said: Another one I just remembered: Paul Thomas Anderson mentioned that he loved listening to John Williams as a teenager and that his collaboration with Spielberg influcenced him. Was just posting those lol 24 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: I seem to recall reading that Mike Newell dissed JW over Harry Potter sounding too childish or something. I've searched in vain trying to find that article, I'm almost sure it was posted here on JWFan a few months after HPGOF was released. I've heard about this but never saw it. He was interviewed for the "ultimate editions" documentary on HP's music and he did praise Williams's ability to give a film gravitas there. Could be that he was just generally talking about shifting to a darker tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: I seem to recall reading that Mike Newell dissed JW over Harry Potter sounding too childish or something. I've searched in vain trying to find that article, I'm almost sure it was posted here on JWFan a few months after HPGOF was released. I think it was a video on YouTube, something about "infantilising the audience". I really like hearing what more "gritty" directors have to say about him, since a lot of them make a cross from their fingers and hiss when it comes to "traditional" techniques of audience manipulation. Nice to see Paul Thomas Anderson having nice words to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 The Newell comment was news to me, I haden't heard that one, please post the video or quote it if you can find it. I am also interested what other directors, gritty ones, are saying about him. I think googling a director's name + interview + john williams can work to help find some. Edit: Oh, and I just remembered Terry Gilliam's comment: “John Williams is a great musician but, wow, enough John. It isn’t his choice, of course, it’s the directors who allow him to take over a film and tell you exactly what you should be feeling every second of every minute of the film.” 1977 and airmanjerm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 51 minutes ago, Lewya said: David Lynch reportedly didn't want to direct Star Wars: Return of the Jedi because John Williams was involved according to producer Gary Kurtz. I am sure it wasn't the only reason why he didn't want to do it, but it was a part of the reason. Why would Williams involvement deter Lynch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: I really like hearing what more "gritty" directors have to say about him, since a lot of them make a cross from their fingers and hiss when it comes to "traditional" techniques of audience manipulation. Not a director, but Trent Reznor -- who would probably be assumed to be one of those "cross your fingers and hiss" people (and who certain members of JWFan would do the same to) -- talked about admiring Williams here despite acknowledging their differences. I had posted that and the PTA video in this thread here, which probably has some other comments from various directors: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, someonefun124 said: Why would Williams involvement deter Lynch? I don't know why, but apparently it seems like he doesn't like Williams. Gary Kurtz said this at a Star Wars convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lewya said: I don't know why, but apparently it seems like he doesn't like Williams. Gary Kurtz said this at a Star Wars convention. Lynch usually prefers having a high level of control over his films' audio. He does his own sound design I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Oh, and another one I almost forgot: The Star Trek director Nicholas Meyer commented that The Post maybe would have been better with less music in it on his Facebook: Someone wrote this: There is always one moment in nearly every Spielberg movie when I feel I am being manipulated. I think it comes from a sense of wanting to make sure the audience is getting the emotional point without realizing they already have. The John Williams music swells, nearly obscuring the dialogue, while every cinematic effect is used to ram the point home, in a kind of emotional arm-twisting. That's what bothered me about the made-up scene at the end of THE POST. It felt heavy-handed and unnecessary. Kay Graham's growth and courage had been amply demonstrated and didn't need to be underlined. To this comment Nicholas Meyer wrote: "I think some of that is a fair critique. Having said that, I loved the film anyway. Would it have been better with less music? Maybe..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I don't know if Kevin Bacon ever directed a movie but he once confessed loving the score for 'Accidental Tourist'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Noah Baumbach said that he loved the E.T. score by Williams when he was a kid and that he would cry if that came on now: "When I was a kid, I loved the E.T. score by John Williams. If that score came on right now I would cry. It’s so emotional." http://www.vulture.com/2015/03/noah-baumbach-music-while-we-were-young.html James Cameron said that he placed James Horner in the top 3 - with John Williams and Hans Zimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said: Lynch usually prefers having a high level of control over his films' audio. He does his own sound design I believe. He's got his own M.O. Modus operandi. DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 49 minutes ago, Lewya said: James Cameron said that he placed James Horner in the top 3 - with John Williams and Hans Zimmer. What an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, publicist said: I don't know if Kevin Bacon ever directed a movie but he once confessed loving the score for 'Accidental Tourist'. Twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,075 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I love beacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Be a beacon in his sad and lonely life. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 "Be a beacon"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I bet a very significant portion of filmmakers today grew up listening to JW soundtrack albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Lewya said: Noah Baumbach said that he loved the E.T. score by Williams when he was a kid and that he would cry if that came on now: "When I was a kid, I loved the E.T. score by John Williams. If that score came on right now I would cry. It’s so emotional." http://www.vulture.com/2015/03/noah-baumbach-music-while-we-were-young.html James Cameron said that he placed James Horner in the top 3 - with John Williams and Hans Zimmer. What a horrible thing to say. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 hours ago, Lewya said: James Cameron said that he placed James Horner in the top 3 - with John Williams and Hans Zimmer. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Was the title of this thread meant to be read in some kind of enthusiastic announcer voice? "Here's what the directors are saying about John Williams!" "Two thumbs up!" says Steven Spielberg! "He tricked people into thinking Jaws 2 is actually watchable!" says Jeannot Szwarc! Buy John Williams now! Available on home video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: What do you have against James Horner?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 An Angelo Badalamenti score for RotJ would have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, kaseykockroach said: Was the title of this thread meant to be read in some kind of enthusiastic announcer voice? "Here's what the directors are saying about John Williams!" "Two thumbs up!" says Steven Spielberg! "He tricked people into thinking Jaws 2 is actually watchable!" says Jeannot Szwarc! Buy John Williams now! Available on home video! I take ten of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 11 hours ago, Lewya said: The Newell comment was news to me, I haden't heard that one, please post the video or quote it if you can find it. I am also interested what other directors, gritty ones, are saying about him. I think googling a director's name + interview + john williams can work to help find some. Edit: Oh, and I just remembered Terry Gilliam's comment: “John Williams is a great musician but, wow, enough John. It isn’t his choice, of course, it’s the directors who allow him to take over a film and tell you exactly what you should be feeling every second of every minute of the film.” Heh. Classic Gilliam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 hours ago, Lewya said: Oh, and another one I almost forgot: The Star Trek director Nicholas Meyer commented that The Post maybe would have been better with less music in it on his Facebook: Someone wrote this: There is always one moment in nearly every Spielberg movie when I feel I am being manipulated. I think it comes from a sense of wanting to make sure the audience is getting the emotional point without realizing they already have. The John Williams music swells, nearly obscuring the dialogue, while every cinematic effect is used to ram the point home, in a kind of emotional arm-twisting. That's what bothered me about the made-up scene at the end of THE POST. It felt heavy-handed and unnecessary. Kay Graham's growth and courage had been amply demonstrated and didn't need to be underlined. To this comment Nicholas Meyer wrote: "I think some of that is a fair critique. Having said that, I loved the film anyway. Would it have been better with less music? Maybe..." WTF? There's like 5 minutes of music in The Post. Most directors prefer minimalist scores anyway. Williams' music sounds too overbearing I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I remember reading somewhere that James Cameron heaped tons of praise on John Williams. Obviously, JW was his first choice for Titanic, but when that didn't happen, he seemed to take it philosophically. Oh well, James Horner was pretty awesome too! Now, I still wonder sometimes how a JW scored Titanic would have been. Probably no Celine Dion song, but a symphonic JW masterpiece on the same level as Schindler's List and E.T., with a dozen major and minor themes and motifs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Incanus said: Heh. Classic Gilliam. It's always been a valid alternative view though. Nevertheless, I just happen to be Williams' target audience, because I'm a sucker for musical conditioning and I always will be. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 20 hours ago, Lewya said: James Cameron said that he placed James Horner in the top 3 - with John Williams and Hans Zimmer. Good on Jim for this, recognizing greatness and acknowledging it despite past working troubles. An admirable trio of massive talent and influence. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Arpy said: Most directors prefer minimalist scores anyway. Williams' music sounds too overbearing I guess... Most directors have cloth ears. Just look at what Ridley Scott did to Goldsmith. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Ridley's version of the ALIEN score is vastly superior to that of Goldsmith's original intentions. In the case of LEGEND, it was more a matter of studio meddling. But I think both versions work in their own ways. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Sorry Thor, Freud leftovers + Hanson + hackjob on Jerry's score does not work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 But you don't understand Ridley Scott's Alien the way Thor does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Ridley's version IS better than Jerry's! The only problem (and the main reason of Jerry's disappointment) are the temp tracks from Freud which are just a personal preference by Scott, but the original cue would have worked at least as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 50 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: Sorry Thor, Freud leftovers + Hanson + hackjob on Jerry's score does not work for me. Well, too bad for you, then. I think those elements are far more effective (and more in line with the storytelling and symbolism) than JG's original vision ever was. JG's version is alright, but far more perfunctory and without the extra layers. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 You don't find the use of Freud jarring at all? You prefer a piece of classical music (completely unrelated to the film and the music specifically composed for it) to that gorgeous End Title that Jerry wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: You don't find the use of Freud jarring at all? No. Of course, for the insiders like us, it's kind of a 'funny' cameo, given the Freudian symbolism in the movie otherwise. But on a purely musical level, I like the relentless dissonance of those cues, both in the acid scene and the hatch/Dallas scene. It's all very organic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 It takes me out of the film completely, precisely because it's so different stylistically from the rest of the score. Even before I became aware of the use thereof in those scenes, something about it just felt out of kilter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I know Williams is just another guy, with personality quirks of his own, and in Hollywood everyone makes enemies and jealously and rivalries are everywhere. But that said, I'm still genuinely surprised when I hear anyone say anything remotely negative about him. I'm far from a fan boy (I come to JWFan for the waters), but what's not to like and respect, personally and professionally? I can even understand people not like Spielberg or Hanks, reportedly two of the nicest guys in the business, but John Williams? Say it ain't so. James and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said: It takes me out of the film completely, precisely because it's so different stylistically from the rest of the score. Even before I became aware of the use thereof in those scenes, something about it just felt out of kilter. I had a different experience. Never noticed anything different. It's very much a stylistic extension of the ALIEN score, IMO (for relatively minor scenes in the scheme of things). In later years, I've always felt the music there gives the scenes an extra "edge". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Nick1066 said: I know Williams is just another guy, with personality quirks of his own, and in Hollywood everyone makes enemies and jealously and rivalries are everywhere. But that said, I'm still genuinely surprised when I hear anyone say anything remotely negative about him. I'm far from a fan boy (I come to JWFan for the waters), but what's not to like and respect, personally and professionally? I can even understand people not like Spielberg or Hanks, reportedly two of the nicest guys in the business, but John Williams? Say it ain't so. You come to JWfan for the waters?...is it safe to go back in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 19 hours ago, Josh500 said: Now, I still wonder sometimes how a JW scored Titanic would have been. Probably no Celine Dion song, but a symphonic JW masterpiece on the same level as Schindler's List and E.T., with a dozen major and minor themes and motifs? Going by the Don Davis interview that recounts the professional humiliation Horner had to go through to finally snatch his Oscar i think that never would have happened. 8 hours ago, Thor said: I had a different experience. Never noticed anything different. It's very much a stylistic extension of the ALIEN score, IMO (for relatively minor scenes in the scheme of things). In later years, I've always felt the music there gives the scenes an extra "edge". There are parts in Goldsmith's score that he redid for Scott that work brilliantly and there are parts Scott left in that i personally would have excised, especially all the monster attack stuff with shrill trumpets in the last third (which indeed destroy the mood a bit with their relentless 50's posturing). But by and large, Goldsmith's instincts were right on, especially in the first half and i find your constant overpraise of Scotts tinkering laughable. He didn't write a note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Thor said: Well, too bad for you, then. I think those elements are far more effective (and more in line with the storytelling and symbolism) than JG's original vision ever was. JG's version is alright, but far more perfunctory and without the extra layers. I find the Goldsmith score a bit too lush for the film and prefer the trimmed down version by the director, but what you write is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Thor said: Ridley's version of the ALIEN score is vastly superior to that of Goldsmith's original intentions. I'm not familiar with Goldsmith's original score but I understand that the problem was that he wrote typical old-fashioned big sounding monster music for the alien scenes and that this approach clashed with Ridley's vision. Sounds to me Ridley was wise not to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 That wasn't the stuff that he tinkered with that much, though. All the great musical ideas - the questing two note motif, the Ives-like main theme, the geräusch stuff for the Alien Planet - were entirely Goldsmith's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: I'm not familiar with Goldsmith's original score but I understand that the problem was that he wrote typical old-fashioned big sounding monster music for the alien scenes and that this approach clashed with Ridley's vision. Sounds to me Ridley was wise not to go that route. Indeed. But the main genius of Scott and Rawlings' version is that it creates all these extra meaningful layers to the film -- like linking the Freudian aspects of the opening with the exploration of the alien ship later on, for example. This isn't as readily found in Goldsmith's version, which is fine -- but more superficial and perfunctory. And the Hanson is vastly superior as as mellow, tonal contrast to the preceding scene, as opposed to the JG music. I've written a long analysis/article on this, which has been published in various forms, but alas not in English yet. But I point out some of these links in the 'tinkered' version that aren't found in JG's original vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 The 'main genius' would have been to communicate properly with the composer who would have been more than qualified to address those layers himself. 1977 and James 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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