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"2018 is gonna be one for the books", says LLL regarding JW


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19 hours ago, Bryant Burnette said:

 

Jesus Christ, now's there's an anti-Thor...?

I don't want to make space for OSTs on my shelves, that's all. Why would I even play those if I'm bound to be happier with expansions?

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Just now, bollemanneke said:

I don't want to make space for OSTs on my shelves, that's all. Why would I even play those if I'm bound to be happier with expansions?

 

When reaching a certain amount of CDs, space is indeed something one has to take into consideration.

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Indeed. I'm currently going through loads of old classical ones I had as a kid and will be glad to bring them all to a second-hand shop soon, we've got harddisk now.

 

Also, I am not a fan of this argument that OSTs are what the composers want you to have. I'd rather decide what I want to have for myself, thanks.

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3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Also, I am not a fan of this argument that OSTs are what the composers want you to have. I'd rather decide what I want to have for myself, thanks.

 

I think sometimes, the OST is how the composer wants to present the music. But that doesn't mean he chooses to include the same cues as the listener would have preferred.

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11 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Yes, but why is it important what the composer wants? What I mean is, the only reason I like James Horner's Titanic, for instance, is because I watched the movie. I didn't browse in a shop and went: Hmm, now what would Titanic by this Horner guy sound like? I listen to film music because I liked it in the film and that immediately comes with expectations and a personal wishlist for a personal album. It is not up to Williams to tell me I can't have Rescueing Sirius.

 

But Titanic is a case where a lot of music wasn't presented properly or at all in the movie. So do you just skip that stuff and stick with what you heard in the movie?

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4 minutes ago, Denise Bryson said:

Too bad, the composer cares about his work, and wishes it to exist as a separate entity from the film.

a complete score presentation doesn't meant it can't exist as a separate entity from the film.

That is, when it's interesting musically enough, like in the case of Williams.

 

 

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Yeah and how do we handle the alternates in Titanic if following the narrative of the film? There are numerous versions, in some cases edited in the movie. I'd rather it make sense as a listening experience rather than follow the order of scenes.

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Musically interesting maybe, but does it always flow as a whole? Not necessarily. So Williams decides to exclude moments he feels detract from the listening experience, even if they were really good in insolation. It's his right as an album producer.

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we have to take into account also that many times it's the target audience that defines the way in which the film score will be rearranged.

eg. i have written the score of E.T. I want to sell my music to the average Joe.

Of course I will cut all the atonal bits and pieces that will probably bore him to death.

But do i want to really? Do i think that these cues are of lesser quality than the rest of my music, or don't fit there or don't flow well with the rest of the score?

 

I personally find the musical arc of the score much more pleasing and complete, in its expanded presentation.

And much more diverse too.

 

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No, it's not his right at all. Why pretend that these are stand-alone albums? They're not. I'm not asking for the preservation of film micro-edits here, but ommitting music is just wrong. If I'm expected to buy albums, they should be to my liking, not to the composer's.

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The average Joe can take the complete album, and cut whatever he likes, and rearrange the cues however he likes.

But the rest of us can't listen to the cues we like with an album presentation.

 

Maybe like Holko said, the best would be to present both options simultaneously.

 

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Just now, filmmusic said:

The average Joe can take the complete album, and cut whatever he likes, and rearrange the cues however he likes.

But the rest of us can't listen to the cues we like with an album presentation.

 

But Average Joe isn't an album producer (neither are any of us here really). He's not qualified to make those decisions.

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4 minutes ago, king mark said:

that never happens  .I'd rather have all the music in all cases

 

Happens to me a fair bit. Like in A.I., I go back to just listening to the OST now because that 3-CD set is just too damn long. And I think we have all the HP music we need. Nothing significant missing.

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46 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

No, it's not his right at all. Why pretend that these are stand-alone albums? They're not. I'm not asking for the preservation of film micro-edits here, but ommitting music is just wrong. If I'm expected to buy albums, they should be to my liking, not to the composer's.

 

Write your own film scores, then you won't have to worry about it at all.

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Remember the 5 D's of dodgeball: Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

No, it's not his right at all. Why pretend that these are stand-alone albums? They're not. I'm not asking for the preservation of film micro-edits here, but ommitting music is just wrong. If I'm expected to buy albums, they should be to my liking, not to the composer's.

I almost agree with you, but when it comes to a marketable product that takes into account listening experience and narrative etc. the producers, label and composer need to find the right middle ground to include a bit of both. The latest LLL Williams expansions are good examples of presenting a fuller score, and a curated listening experience.

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I prefer that both composer-curated albums AND complete-score versions be available.  Not all listeners care about hearing 100% of the music; some do.  Why not cater to both?

 

Weird to suggest that a composer shouldn't be able to do as they see fit, though.  Nobody has any right to that music if they don't want people to hear it.

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Personal preference is irrelevant.

 

I get that some consumers prefer to have all the full exits and alternate recordings...   but composing music is an art... it’s the composer’s privilege to release it as he sees fit.

 

What the fans would prefer is not, perhaps, first priority.

 

I mean, why are you a fan in the first place? Because of the composer’s way of composing, that’s why. So let the composer compose. And let him decide what to listen to.

 

Well said by @Bryant Burnette I agree.

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5 hours ago, Denise Bryson said:

Musically interesting maybe, but does it always flow as a whole? Not necessarily. So Williams decides to exclude moments he feels detract from the listening experience, even if they were really good in insolation. It's his right as an album producer.

 

If he needs to exclude moments that detract from the listening experience, shouldn't he have done a better Job as a composer?

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

As the music wasn't composed as a standalone work, it's natural that some editing and trimming is needed to best present it outside of the film. It has nothing to do with quality.

Some editing and trimming to cutting down half of the score (like in the original album of E.T.) is a big difference.

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I agree, but some OSTs are too shitty to be called a good listening experience. The Alien OST and the A.I. OST, for example. What were the composers thinking, when they created these "listening experiences"?

 

Besides it also depends on personal preferences as well as the score itself. The Lost World, for example, works perfectly as a C&C, but Deep Rising... meh...

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Had a talk at FSM and remembered 1492 by Vangelis.

The album is missing some film cues I'd really like to have! :(

Why the composer should tell me what I should like and not leave it to my judgement?

 

Another example:

Beauty and the Beast ost.

Huge disappointment with the few score cues on that album.

Fortunately the legacy edition came after all these years, to remedy that.

 

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1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

I agree, but some OSTs are too shitty to be called a good listening experience. The Alien OST and the A.I. OST, for example. What were the composers thinking, when they created these "listening experiences"?

 

Alien? Seriously? That OST blows the C&C out the goddamn airlock.

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WTF?!

 

The order of the cues doesn't make sense.

Hanging On is split up in two tracks.

Some bad edits, like in Facehuggers.

The egg theme is not present.

Neither of the cat cues are present.

The dramaturgic build-up is lost.

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