The Mandalorian SHOW discussion - Spoilers Allowed for all aired episodes

[GerateWohl 4,340]

12 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

This episode just helps to fill in those gaps IMO.

You mean, it tries to fix the flaws of Luke's narration in the sequels.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

6 hours ago, Arpy said:

In Rebels, the Dark Saber was passed down to the heir of Mandalore, Sabine Wren, who decided Bo Katan was the better leader and gave it to her. This whole 'Elder Wand' mix-up is a bit silly in respect to what we've seen of the Saber in other shows. 

 

In the Rebels episode "Legacy of Mandalore" Sabine's mother tells her that she has no claim to the Darksaber because she did not win it from Darth Maul in combat.  Perhaps between Rebels and The Mandalorian, Bo-Katan had dealt with other Mandalorians considering her claim on the Darksaber illegitimate because she hadn't won it and she won't make that mistake again.

[rough cut 1,714]

40 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

Ironically it’s also shown just how powerful the portrayal of Luke in TLJ really is. He truly was a legend - the fear in Moff Gideon’s eyes when he realised who’d just shown up, and the ease with which he dispatched the dark troopers just goes to show how far Luke had fallen in TLJ and why his sacrifice at the end was such a crucial turning point for the Resistance.

The problem was never in Luke’s portrayal in TLJ, it was that a lot of people lacked the imagination to understand what he must have achieved - and failed at - to arrive at that point. This episode just helps to fill in those gaps IMO.

I don’t think that’s how it’s been received at all.

 

The main response at the moment seems to be “this is what we wanted all along” along side “how could you misinterpret Luke’s character to such a degree that you did in TLJ”.

 

Ot has nothing to do with filling in gaps - more to do with burying Rian’s missteps and trying to reinstate Luke as a proper hero, not the loser he was portrayed as in TLJ.

 

Mind, that nobody seems to have a problem with how Luke behaved in ROTS (but it was certainly tainted by its predecessor).

[Holko 9,499]

1 minute ago, rough cut said:

Mind, that nobody seems to have a problem with how Luke behaved in ROTS

I'm offended the little fecker was born. It's like Lucas fundamentally misunderstood his entire character.

 

 

 

 

...and once again, all together now: It was JJ who set him up to be a hermit who just "walked away from it all".

[rough cut 1,714]

The problem isn’t that Luke is a hermit or whatever he was “set up” to be in TFA.

 

Obi-Wan was a hermit, nobody has a problem with that, as long as the story supports it.

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

2 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

The problem was never in Luke’s portrayal in TLJ, it was that a lot of people lacked the imagination to understand what he must have achieved - and failed at - to arrive at that point.

 

LOL. So if you didn't like Luke's portrayal in TLJ, you "lack imagination." Yeah, sure Jan. 👍😂

 

[Bofur01 245]

So far I’ve just seen people saying that it’s not too late to make the ST not canon, and trying to come up with ways it could have happened in an alternate universe... 

[Edmilson 7,393]

Everything Star Wars AFTER the Disney purchase is just fan fiction and happened in an alternate universe. The only things canon are the movies/shows produced with George Lucas in charge. This completly turns TLJ into fan fiction, but also The Mandalorian. How about that?

[Romão 2,274]

Luke's portrayal and scenes in TLJ are among my favorite in the whole saga, whereas his scenes in TROS were just plain embarrassing

[Jay 37,290]

ROTS?  Do you mean TROS?

[Romão 2,274]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

ROTS?  Do you mean TROS?

 

Yes, my mistake

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I always find it interesting how half the audience walked out of Last Jedi thinking "Luke is a badass!" and the other half thinking "Luke is a loser!" Definitely something going on there.

[GerateWohl 4,340]

3 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

So far I’ve just seen people saying that it’s not too late to make the ST not canon, and trying to come up with ways it could have happened in an alternate universe... 

It is just f***ed up. And if they would get a second chance for a sequel trilogy they would f**k it up again.

SW has become some kind of nostalgic playground. Even the Manalorian turned into a fan fiction best of with guest stars in every episode. 

We should just let the whole Skywalker thing rest in pieces.

[Arpy 4,145]

5 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

In the Rebels episode "Legacy of Mandalore" Sabine's mother tells her that she has no claim to the Darksaber because she did not win it from Darth Maul in combat.  Perhaps between Rebels and The Mandalorian, Bo-Katan had dealt with other Mandalorians considering her claim on the Darksaber illegitimate because she hadn't won it and she won't make that mistake again.

I wonder if Gideon a Mandalorian? Can anyone who lays claim to the Saber rule Mandalore? Maybe it'll be answered eventually.

 

52 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I always find it interesting how half the audience walked out of Last Jedi thinking "Luke is a badass!" and the other half thinking "Luke is a loser!" Definitely something going on there.

For many people, I believe that they were hoping for something not unlike what we saw on The Mandalorian, that Luke would be cutting down the First Order tanks and walkers and using the force in spectacular ways etc. 

 

I don't think any of the arguments hold any water as to why Luke should've been some awesome avenger, instead of the man we saw in TLJ, because of what was set up in TFA. I also have an issue where people expect these elderly characters (and actors) to perform like some ninja warriors. I think they at least handled Han Solo well, giving him more of an Obi-Wan role in TFA, nothing too lithe or energetic.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

5 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

 

LOL. So if you didn't like Luke's portrayal in TLJ, you "lack imagination." Yeah, sure Jan. 👍😂

 

I’m specifically referring to the people disappointed that he wasn’t a force wielding, lightsaber swinging badass the whole film. I mean, it’s obvious that he was at some point, but by TLJ that’s no longer the case. A lot of people just really wanted to see him like that, and now their prayers have been answered.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I don't go along with the idea that people who hate Luke in TLJ just wanted to see him doing crazy Force shit in mindless action scenes.

 

It seems like the two main sticking points are that he cut himself off from the Force and he was tempted to kill Ben Solo. Even for one second ("more than a second"). Even if he was ashamed of it ("he better be"). The fact that he turned his lightsaber on at all means a lot to people. And it is just a hard "No, Luke would not do that. Seeing a vision of Ben killing Han Solo and many others would still not faze Luke in that moment. He would see the light. And he would never give up on Ben even after he turned to the dark side, he would know it was Snoke, he would never stop fighting the First Order, he would trust the Force."

 

And Johnson's view being that Luke would be devastated by Ben's evil after all his teachings, that he would wrestle with right and wrong, that he would make mistakes, that he would see renouncing the Force in exile as noble sacrifice and not weakness, and that he would finally embrace the Force and the Jedi and save the day. To which critics say "too little, too late."

 

And it is just wild to see the fundamentally opposite perspectives people have on that. It goes on and on. It offended entire worldviews.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

33 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I don't go along with the idea that people who hate Luke in TLJ just wanted to see him doing crazy Force shit in mindless action scenes.

 

Well this is definitely what I wanted!

 

Luke as a washed up loser and Han as a divorced deadbeat dad is probably not what I was imagining for the Star Wars sequels.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

I may be giving y'all too much credit in that case.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

2 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I may be giving y'all too much credit in that case.

 

Definitely.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

LOL respect

[Niktob 4]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:35 PM, Edmilson said:

 

According to the end credits, it was Mark Hamill playing Luke in that scene. 

Voice only

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

8 hours ago, rough cut said:

Ot has nothing to do with filling in gaps - more to do with burying Rian’s missteps and trying to reinstate Luke as a proper hero, not the loser he was portrayed as in TLJ.

We must have very different ideas of what heroism can be. 
 

In this day and age, I can’t think of anything more heroic than an individual owning up to their mistakes, casting off the shackles of self-loathing and taking action for the good of others. It’s so much more aspirational than the standard, cookie cutter idea of heroism as a flawless virtue and a power fantasy.

[Arpy 4,145]

Luke isn't invulnerable to letting his emotions cloud his judgement, the fear of losing all that he had come to create - the new Jedi Order - and fearing the power inside Ben is something that humanizes him beyond the 2D character of the OT. 

 

To say it's not something he would do is to believe that these characters are fundamentally unchangeable across their lifetimes. 

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

9 hours ago, Arpy said:

I wonder if Gideon a Mandalorian? Can anyone who lays claim to the Saber rule Mandalore? Maybe it'll be answered eventually.

 

Darth Maul did in The Clone Wars. I believe any warrior who obtains it can lay claim to Mandalore.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Everyone's arguing over the Darksaber and I'm here wondering who gets the Whitesaber 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

20 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

The problem was never in Luke’s portrayal in TLJ, it was that a lot of people lacked the imagination to understand what he must have achieved - and failed at - to arrive at that point. 

 

Nah, it was just really unsatisfying to see an archetypal screen icon end up as a grumpy hermit. Star Wars was originally very simplistic, that was the key to its appeal (SW nerds like to project depth, but it's all window dressing); they just went wrong when they overcomplicated it with angsty doldrums which nobody wanted to see. By nobody I mean mainstream fans aka the SW bread n butter cash stream. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Luke looked pretty good for his age.

[Edmilson 7,393]

4 hours ago, Quintus said:

Nah, it was just really unsatisfying to see an archetypal screen icon end up as a grumpy hermit

 

So you haven't watched Logan? Or any of the Rambo movies?

[Quintus 5,399]

He had black eyes, like a dolls eyes... 

 

And here's the deepfake hobbiest along again to make a mockery of ILM's shoddy efforts:

 

 

 

[Holko 9,499]

Eh. The eyes look less dead but the movement is still off.

[Jay 37,290]

I think it would have come out better if they had mark Hamill on set and de-aged his face, rather than using another actor then trying to slap a CGI face on him

[Thor 7,471]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

I think it would have come out better if they had mark Hamill on set and de-aged his face, rather than using another actor then trying to slap a CGI face on him

 

Indeed.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

VFX lobbyists probably threatened to boycott Hollyweird if studios chose Deep Fake over their outdated inferior practices.

[Quintus 5,399]

Imagine thinking that the eyes weren't the first and most important thing to get right tho

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They've been getting that wrong since Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.

 

Funny they made Thanos look convincing though.

[Bofur01 245]

I don’t think studios have anywhere near the capability to deepfake as fans, for at least one reason - fans use ridiculous amounts of footage from old interviews and films to make their deepfakes, and that footage would probably be a huge licensing problem for vfx studios.

 

Thanos is a big purple fella, and like with Gollum in the Hobbit, both punch above their realism weight as they don’t have entirely human features. Humans are far more attuned to human faces than apes, for example.

[A24 4,326]

On 12/22/2020 at 2:41 PM, Jay said:

 

Waterworld

 

Yeah, sorta, but it wasn't as blatant as Dune or Alien.

[Quintus 5,399]

17 minutes ago, Bofur01 said:

I don’t think studios have anywhere near the capability to deepfake as fans, for at least one reason - fans use ridiculous amounts of footage from old interviews and films to make their deepfakes, and that footage would probably be a huge licensing problem for vfx studios.

 

Thanos is a big purple fella, and like with Gollum in the Hobbit, both punch above their realism weight as they don’t have entirely human features. Humans are far more attuned to human faces than apes, for example.

 

Meh, Lola FX accomplished a far more convincing effort with a young Michael Douglas in Ant Man. I just think you Star Wars fanboys are in denial about ILM no longer being the FX house they once were. This digital Luke Skywalker work is some of the worst I've seen in recent memory. 

 

No matter, the scene was still terrific despite the crummy CGI. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The lady Jedi with the funny head said to the bounty hunter guy that she knew of only one other of Baby Yoda's kind (Yoda obviously), but what about that Yaddle?

[Jay 37,290]

Maybe they never met each other

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

But she would have at least known of Yaddle, who was a senior Jedi Council member.

[Jay 37,290]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Holko 9,499]

She only appears in TPM.

[Edmilson 7,393]

She was probably killed in the Order 66.

[Datameister 2,037]

1 hour ago, Bofur01 said:

I don’t think studios have anywhere near the capability to deepfake as fans, for at least one reason - fans use ridiculous amounts of footage from old interviews and films to make their deepfakes, and that footage would probably be a huge licensing problem for vfx studios.

 

Thanos is a big purple fella, and like with Gollum in the Hobbit, both punch above their realism weight as they don’t have entirely human features. Humans are far more attuned to human faces than apes, for example.

 

Yup. Davy Jones still looks incredible to me - but if the same artists had simply made a digital Bill Nighy, I'm sure the results would have been totally unconvincing. Human brains are really, really, really good at processing human faces, and when something is off, we notice.

 

Deepfakes continue to really impress me, although I'm becoming more aware of moments when a particular expression from a particular bit of source footage becomes recognizable. I wonder what can be done about that.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

7 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

Nah, it was just really unsatisfying to see an archetypal screen icon end up as a grumpy hermit. Star Wars was originally very simplistic, that was the key to its appeal (SW nerds like to project depth, but it's all window dressing); they just went wrong when they overcomplicated it with angsty doldrums which nobody wanted to see.

 

This.

 

Star Wars at its core is about archtypes and myths. At least that's how it started. Those people who are looking for deep psychological motivations and complex characters who act "realisitically" are sort of missing the point, and what made it so massively popular in the first place.  It's the reason that no one would want to see a Lord of the Rings sequel where an ageing King Aragorn is worried about taxes & a health care plan for Gondorians.

 

You start tinkering with the formula too much, and trying to make it what it's not, you lose what made it special all along.

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, in the OT, you'd never see an old Jedi spend the last 20 years of his life in self-imposed exile on some obscure planet just because he felt responsible for a younger Jedi's catastrophic turn to the dark side.

 

Nope...you see two old Jedi spend the last 20 years of their lives in self-imposed exile on some obscure planets just because they felt responsible for a younger Jedi's catastrophic turn to the dark side!

 

Besides, Luke had a strong mopey streak until he got stiff and boring in ROTJ. Even if running away hadn't been both of his mentors' M.O.s, I totally would have bought his descent into solitary self-loathing.

 

(To be clear, I think TLJ has plenty of flaws. I just think Luke's arc isn't one of them.)

[Quintus 5,399]

Anyone else find the bizarre strings piece which underscores Luke’s robot army massacre to be useless? Personally, I think it's a crap approach to the scene, it sounds rubbish. 

 

I feel like practically any other score composer could have done a more satisfying job in this instance. 

[mstrox 6,647]

I haven't listened to the album yet, but I remember almost nothing about that part musically (which I guess is condemnation enough, given what was going on).  While I generally think Ludwig's Mando music is great, that part made zero impression upon watching.

[Jay 37,290]

Seemed fine to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯