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The Mandalorian SHOW discussion - Spoilers Allowed for all aired episodes


Faleel

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9 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

I wanna see Mando have actual character conflicts, dammit!

 

I wanna see Mando have more to do each week beyond go there, shoot that, escape. 

 

4 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Put it this way: Season 1 and 2 almost seem like a completely different show than S3-7. Watching Season 7 in particular and going back and watching Season 1 (especially the movie) back-to-back is incredibly jarring. Even the music slowly changes drastically over time. The earlier seasons appear to be in some sort of experimental phase, even George himself mentions that in some of the BTS interviews. The show didn't find it's "voice" until later on.

 

Can't the first two seasons just be skipped? 

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8 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Jay Just watch The Clone Wars - sure it has a messy start, but it gives much needed structure and semblance to the Prequels. 

For my part, I didn't even enjoy it that much but all it did is make the prequels even worse. Whiny flipflopping Anakin was absolutely insufferable and unrecogniseable as the stable, relatively matured guy in CW when I watched RotS after finishing it.

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18 minutes ago, Holko said:

For my part, I didn't even enjoy it that much but all it did is make the prequels even worse. Whiny flipflopping Anakin was absolutely insufferable and unrecogniseable as the stable, relatively matured guy in CW when I watched RotS after finishing it.

 

That's one thing I imagine being hard to reconcile as someone not familiar with the show. From the bjts I've seen,  you have 

Spoiler

freakin' resurrected Darth Maul running around, these massive ongoing conflicts around the time of ROTS, such as Mandalore,

and series major characters, namely Ahsoka, and you're just supposed to suspend your disbelief that none of these critical people or things are even remotely on the mind of any of the characters during ROTS?

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No, that's simple: as we see in the last season, they simply cut out the parts when they talk about those stuff, and only cut to them once they're discussing or doing the movie-related things :P

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On 12/25/2020 at 8:15 PM, rough cut said:

I cannot recall any other approach other than that I agree with the consensus on the Vienna performance - that it is overall a great concert - and that fans saying that any flubs “ruin” the concert are nitpicking.

 

What consensus are you talking about here? Sales figures? Or the "consensus" you get when ignoring views different from your own? Just curious.

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I quit Clone Wars in late season 3.  The animation and writing was just too annoying.

 

I always feel like I’m being gaslit somewhat by the fans of the show.  Everything about it is so thoroughly unengaging, even once I got to story arcs in season 3 that are supposedly the good ones, I just can’t imagine enjoying anything about it.  And I love the prequel films btw!

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10 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Put it this way: Season 1 and 2 almost seem like a completely different show than S3-7. Watching Season 7 in particular and going back and watching Season 1 (especially the movie) back-to-back is incredibly jarring. Even the music slowly changes drastically over time. The earlier seasons appear to be in some sort of experimental phase, even George himself mentions that in some of the BTS interviews. The show didn't find it's "voice" until later on.

George kinda let it be its own thing early on. I think midway through season 3 is where you really start to see his influence. 

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I don't know how to justify my love of The Clone Wars, but I do really enjoy it! 

 

I didn't immediately love it, and I remember feeling pretty grouchy when I left the theater in 2008 about Anakin having an apprentice and everyone's dumb nicknames (Sky Guy, Snips, Artoo-ey!) and Truman Capote the Hutt and the fact that it felt like four different TV episodes sewn together (of course, it was!)  I stuck with it, and it was always watchable, although I'd say it didn't become must-view for me until the Darth Maul arcs (which, again, made me grouchy at the time!).  By the time it rolled around to the last season on network (Maul forming his crime syndicate, the battles on Mandalore, Ahsoka being falsely accused and fleeing the Jedi) I was all in.

 

The character animation is ugly.  From start to end, it is full of clunky weirdness, which always to me just seemed like part of its charm.  As somebody who hated the prequels despite multiple watching attempts over the decades, TCW told stories that included the spirit of adventure that I always found lacking in those movies.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Jay Just watch The Clone Wars - sure it has a messy start, but it gives much needed structure and semblance to the Prequels. 

 

When does it get good?  It's a hole in my SW fandom and I'm right at the end of S1, and it's been a real struggle (unlike The Mandalorian, where I woke up on Fridays happily remembered I'd be watching a new episode over dinner later that day).

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2 hours ago, Bilbo said:

George kinda let it be its own thing early on. I think midway through season 3 is where you really start to see his influence. 

 

I am admittedly not familiar at all with the behind-the-scenes of the show, but I was under the impression that it was the inverse of this?  I thought the standard narrative embraced by fans was "Oh the show didn't get really good until Filoni was able to do his own thing"

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6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I am admittedly not familiar at all with the behind-the-scenes of the show, but I was under the impression that it was the inverse of this?  I thought the standard narrative embraced by fans was "Oh the show didn't get really good until Filoni was able to do his own thing"


Nope, George was very hands off with the whole thing to begin with but then he started to get really into it. Basically he’d pitch the stories for the later seasons and other people would write the scripts. But all the major ideas and story beats where GL. They’d go away and do their thing and George would review it. He got more involved not less. 
 

The movie only exists because George saw what they were doing and decided at the last minute he wanted to release it in theatres. 
 

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39 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 

 

The character animation is ugly.  From start to end, it is full of clunky weirdness, which always to me just seemed like part of its charm.  As somebody who hated the prequels despite multiple watching attempts over the decades, TCW told stories that included the spirit of adventure that I always found lacking in those movies.

 

 

 

Basically I was assured that by the end of Season 3 the show got good.  And I decided to put in the work and watch 1 and 2 too.  Well, I got to the end of Season 3.  I saw the Savage Oppress creation and the Mortis arc, and it was still really boring and badly done to me.  So I decided if those didn't intrigue me at all, it probably wasn't worth continuing.

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I think that's a good call - if it's not for you by that point, it's not likely to be for you!  I'd still generally recommend watching the last arc of season 5 (Ahsoka on the run) and the final arc of the Netflix series which coincides with ROTS - watching both will give you a brief download on Ahsoka and Bo Katan as well.

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

I don't know how to justify my love of The Clone Wars, but I do really enjoy it! 

 

I didn't immediately love it, and I remember feeling pretty grouchy when I left the theater in 2008 about Anakin having an apprentice and everyone's dumb nicknames (Sky Guy, Snips, Artoo-ey!) and Truman Capote the Hutt and the fact that it felt like four different TV episodes sewn together (of course, it was!)  I stuck with it, and it was always watchable, although I'd say it didn't become must-view for me until the Darth Maul arcs (which, again, made me grouchy at the time!).  By the time it rolled around to the last season on network (Maul forming his crime syndicate, the battles on Mandalore, Ahsoka being falsely accused and fleeing the Jedi) I was all in.

 

The character animation is ugly.  From start to end, it is full of clunky weirdness, which always to me just seemed like part of its charm.  As somebody who hated the prequels despite multiple watching attempts over the decades, TCW told stories that included the spirit of adventure that I always found lacking in those movies.

 

 

 

I'm disappointed to hear that about the character animation. I do think part of my distaste thus far can be attributed to that issue. Objects and characters move with that vaguely weightless artificiality that can so easily crop up in CG. Sadly, for me it doesn't come across as charming. And I've never been fond of the wooden marionette aesthetic of the character designs.

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I watched when it aired, so I can't be certain, but I do believe at some point there was a character animation refresh where the characters (or at least the main characters) looked a bit better.

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7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Basically I was assured that by the end of Season 3 the show got good.  And I decided to put in the work and watch 1 and 2 too.  Well, I got to the end of Season 3.  I saw the Savage Oppress creation and the Mortis arc, and it was still really boring and badly done to me.  So I decided if those didn't intrigue me at all, it probably wasn't worth continuing.

 

If you're not interested in chronological order or don't care about skipping through the plot of the show, what you (or anyone else that hasn't really watched much of the show) could do as a test is to skip to the Siege of Mandalore arc in Season 7, which is widely considered to be the best the show has to offer. If you like it, then there will likely be at least a few other episodes in the later seasons that you'd enjoy. If you don't like it, then you probably won't like the rest of the show. Plus on top of that it does set up some plot elements for The Mandalorian, so even if you don't enjoy the SoM arc, at least you'll have some additional knowledge on the background of some of the characters and events that are referenced in The Mandalorian.

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6 hours ago, mstrox said:

I watched when it aired, so I can't be certain, but I do believe at some point there was a character animation refresh where the characters (or at least the main characters) looked a bit better.


There was a refresh in character models in season 3 but it kept getting better. I think the animation in season 7 looks brilliant. 

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The last episode was action-packed but the ending (with Luke Skywalker) was so poorly done that I couldn't stop laughing. I guess you guys all wept, right? 

 

the-mandalorian-s2-e8-recap.jpg

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I saw it coming from the moment Ahsoka mentioned that rock to call other Jedi (who else would work there in the timeline?) and thought the build-up (the X-wing arrival and the darktrooper slaughter) worked great, and plotwise it made sense, but the face CGI was definitely a bit clunky - more mushy Leia than okay Tarkin on the Rogue One scale.

 

If you pull the strings on it a little bit, it doesn't hold up too well (Grogu called Luke from Planet California Desert, was shuttled away god knows how far via hyperspace, and Luke managed to find him there via ?.  Force Sonar???

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On 12/29/2020 at 2:56 AM, mstrox said:

If you trace a Star Wars rumor back to its roots and you find A YouTuber, you will know the rumor to be false.


Mike Zeroh’s Law

 

 

8 hours ago, AC1 said:

The last episode was action-packed but the ending (with Luke Skywalker) was so poorly done that I couldn't stop laughing. I guess you guys all wept, right? 

 

the-mandalorian-s2-e8-recap.jpg


I remember thinking ‘hey this is pretty hype, I’m seeing Luke act more like the character I fell in love with’. I also thought the voice in particular was spot on, and it aided in the illusion that I was practically seeing Luke step out of ROTJ to be in this.

 

Then the hype wore off and I realised how robotic the whole affair was, and how many missed opportunities there were for some great character interactions - no doubt because of the limitations of the setup

 

I am very concerned of the widespread praise for this episode and this scene in particular (as well as the outrageously over the top emotional reactions), because of the message that it’s sending to Disney - you don’t need a tight script, you just need to hit the nostalgia bone in the right spot and all will be forgiven. That’s the absolute last thing that should be communicated given the current state of the franchise.

 

 

8 hours ago, Quintus said:

Imagine watching Star Wars not expecting fan service tho. 

I see this perspective a lot, but what fan service was there in the Original Trilogy? The modus operandi of those movies, and George, was to keep telling and showing new things. As we are all very aware by the Special Editions, George was quite irreverent of his past work.

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2 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

I see this perspective a lot, but what fan service was there in the Original Trilogy? The modus operandi of those movies, and George, was to keep telling and showing new things. As we are all very aware by the Special Editions, George was quite irreverent of his past work.

 

There's plenty of fan-service in the OT. The Death Star being so prominent in ANH is clearly there to appease fans of Rogue One, and then it shows up again in ROTJ! Boba Fett shows up in all three movies just to appeal to Jango Fett fans.

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No, the maclunkey cut is the only proper version. Anything else is just an early rough cut. Audiences are lucky Lucas started letting them see his creative process on the film for some forty years before he finished it!

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I'll always prefer the Han-only-shooting version of that scene, but of the umpteen times that Lucas has adjusted that scene, I think it gets better - so at least Macklunkey is better than the 1997 special edition...

 

The Macklunkey cut is my preferred cut at this point as well.  Even though there's some garbage stuff in the special edition, they also fixed and improved a ton of things, so many that I find it to be a net good.  Same with Empire.  Return of the Jedi is a wash for me, since I love a lot of stuff but Jedi Rocks is jaw droppingly bad, the worst change in the SEs - and I think the extended stuff in The Phantom Menace is to the film's detriment.

 

It's neat that the creators have latched onto Macklunkey as an inside Star Wars joke - they referenced it both in Mando and in the middling LEGO Star Wars Holiday Special from this year.  Hopefully they don't overdo it.  I'm sure if the 4K cut of Star Wars existed before Solo came out, we would have found out Macklunkey's origin and seven different characters woulda said it.

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13 hours ago, Disco Stu said:


The reactions are a separate issue with the economy of Youtube.  The scene completely worked for me though.  I was aware of the “trick” of course and could see the seams, but it just didn’t matter to me. 

The scene worked very well for you and many others it seems, but that is what I’m concerned about - that the bar has been set so low that this is what garners significant praise

 

Its too easy, surface-level, and manipulative for me to praise it. There was no depth to Luke’s appearance beyond ‘look at this legendary character’ which is a huge missed opportunity considering the kind of characters he could’ve interacted with. Characters that have strong ties to his and his father’s past.

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1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

huge missed opportunity considering the kind of characters he could’ve interacted with. Characters that have strong ties to his and his father’s past.

 

Im sure somewhere down the road Ahsoka and Luke will have some kind of conversation. If the show ends and they never met, then I would definitely think it is indeed a massive missed opportunity. Im kind of glad they are pacing themselves, reintroducing the major characters early on and then having them mingle later. Or maybe they are saving Luke and Ahsoka meeting for the Ahsoka show, who knows

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1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

Its too easy, surface-level, and manipulative for me to praise it. There was no depth to Luke’s appearance beyond ‘look at this legendary character’ which is a huge missed opportunity considering the kind of characters he could’ve interacted with. Characters that have strong ties to his and his father’s past.


Which is exactly why I’m so glad we got an intriguing, risky and multi-layered interpretation of the character in the sequels. I’ll end my discussion about TLJ here because I think it speaks for itself and doesn’t need defending, but if I had to choose again between a story about Luke in which he continues to grow and learn as a character and approaches conflict in a nonviolent manner, or a montage of him slicing down baddies with his laser sword like a badass I will always choose the former. It’s just so much more satisfying upon reflection, and says so much more about him as a person.

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Re: missed opportunities

 

I dont really mind the direction TLJ took Luke, I just wish we couldve seen the OT trifecta (+Lando and Chewie) together one last time, and the new characters going off on a new adventure together

 

My main critique of TLJ is that it didnt leave many loose ends to be resolved in IX. Luke dead, Snoke dead, Rey nobody, Resistance reduced to shambles, not even any allies willing to come help. And keeping Rey Finn and Poe split up for almost the entire movie? Why? Only interesting thing was Rey and Luke on Ach To but even that became stale once we realized Luke wasnt changing his mind

 

Ideally I would have prefered in IX if Snoke was still alive and it was revealed he was created by Palpatine. We dont need Palpy to still be alive but it would make sense that he has a hand in creating Snoke, since he is the main overarching villain of the whole series. Or even if something happened at the end of VIII that alluded to Palpatine being back, just like how they found a Joker playing card at the end of Batman Begins. Something, anything, just a thread that could be picked up in IX to weave the trilogy together

D5GOzoaU8AAE-oR.jpg

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Yeahhhhh that was probably the ST's most surprising sin. Particularly with the OT nostalgia being played up so hard in TFA, you'd think they would have found a way to get all three of them into a room together one last time.

 

What if Han hadn't been killed off till the second film of the trilogy? You could have then kept Luke's death for the last film. I think that could have worked 

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