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Does the Fedora Still Fit?: Kingdom of the Crsytal Skull after 10 Years


Nick Parker
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4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

That's not what I'm saying.

 

What I'm saying is that Williams' use of tritones to denote the unknown is a stylistic device, rather than a narrative one. 

 

Its something that future scholars will point to as part of John Williams "style".

 

Perhaps then we can find a compromise:  The first motif for the crystal skull is based on tritones which are typical for Williams to denote the unknown. OK?  :-) 

With this I withdraw from the discussion that has changed its course dramatically, since my first reply was made to contradict the opinion, that the crystal skull Motiv is just an inverted Ark Motiv which it is not considering the intervals and harmonics. 

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  • 2 months later...

Long delay between posts, but I meant to say: thanks for your points, everyone! After being turned on some of the complete score tracks by some of your posts here, my opinion on this score has improved!

 

Stuff like this sounds like a natural progression from Williams, playing on his then current strengths, a more "modern" approach that captures the thrill present in the past films. Also kinda fun to hear some prototypes for some of his stuff in The Last Jedi, especially (like those shrill chord exclamations close to the end).

 

 

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4 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

Perhaps you'd be less sleepy if you drank root beer or orange juice instead of diet coke.

Root beer is tasty at the beginning but after a few glases you become so sick of it.

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  • 3 years later...

I really like this score, but I don't really look forward to any specific cues like I do with the other 3.

 

That said, what makes me enjoy this score is simply the nostalgia of the return of Indy back in 2008. The anticipation of KOTCS and the months leading up to it were so great as an Indy fan.  Even if the film was a slight letdown, I still enjoyed it a lot.

 

But yeah, any time i throw on KOTCS to listen to, it brings back those good memories.

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I sort of enjoyed the film as a cinematic experience - I went the whole way with a coke and popcorn - but ultimately felt a bit let down by it, and certainly the ending with the flying saucer had me open mouthed, not in a good way. It didn't help that I was desperate for a pee by that point :eh:

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The movie is an abomination, one of the worst Williams ever scored. The score is... okay, I guess. Some parts are great, others are a little boring.

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For some movies I admit, I have lost my childhood heart... but when it's about Indiana Jones I always find it again. It pulls a trigger... Hard to explain.

 

Now imagine an archaeologist, our Doctor Jones, transported to ancient Rome! I really hope Lucas will have fun to make that movie!

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I always enjoyed KOTCS a lot. Calling it an abomination seems extreme when it’s just a forgettable action flick at worst. I know in the world of Star Wars and Indiana Jones, everything either has to be the best thing ever made or the worst thing ever made, but I assure you it is possible to just be mediocre. That said, it is a fucking ugly movie. The color grading looks terrible in sequences like the jungle chase and highlights the CGI. 
 

Love Williams’ score though. “The Jungle Chase” is my favorite Indy action setpiece with “Ants!” not far behind

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14 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

That said, it is a fucking ugly movie. The color grading looks terrible in sequences like the jungle chase and highlights the CGI. 

 

It's definitely better on the new 4k blu ray master, but still not great.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Bespin said:

the next movie will feature Indy traveling through time... like I was expecting... many years ago (read my old posts)...

 

:up:

The movie itself has already time traveled.  It has skipped ahead to 2023--we need to catch up to it--just like the Einstein.*

 

*the dog, not the guy.  

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2 hours ago, Bespin said:

I always loved that movie from the start, well except the CGI scenes... the ants... the monkeys... but I was not shocked to see Indiana Jones meeting Aliens...

 

I mean after the Ark of The Covenant, Sankara Magic Stones and the Holy Grail... Aliens keeped in secret in Area 51... that was just logical!

 

And be prepared, the next movie will feature Indy traveling through time... like I was expecting... many years ago (read my old posts)...

 

:up:

 

Again, the only true issue with the aliens in this film is the implication that they helped the central and southern American civilizations with agriculture, science, ect ect.  It's an actual disgrace to those people and archaeology itself.  Lazy storytelling.

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I'd never considered that angle but you're right. 

 

But its greater crime is being such a lousy movie. They got almost every single thing wrong, from the script to the visual style to the awkward humour, the lack of overseas locations, the Looney Tunes cartoon violence, the Rocky and Bullwinkle villains, every single thing about the character Mac...

 

Spielberg's direction shows flashes of brilliance but quickly dissipates during exposition scenes.

 

Williams is really the only person holding things together, much like the prequels. 

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I remember some guy in the front row of the cinema we were in got off his seat and onto his knees, crying with laughter when Marion reveals Mutt is Indy's son. He was rolling around howling. it was really bizarre. 

 

My issue with the film is that it really feels like Spielberg and Lucas weren't invested in the film's story and seized the opportunity to bring the franchise back to life when Star Wars was done and dusted (at the time) for nostalgia's sake. Indy was too old and despite some of the quips in the film making light of this, we still see him back in the same costume, doing the same heroic shit. Indy should've taken the role of his father and let Mutt assume the main role like in Last Crusade. Let Indy be the father who eschews time with his son for his archaeological work and Mutt could've been like the young, headstrong adventurer, you know, like the passing of the torch. What worries me about Indiana Jones 5, is that yet again it looks like we're going to see Indy back in the same costume, doing things that a man his age should not be doing all while John Williams' fanfare blares as a geriatric man swings from a whip. 

 

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Just depends on the story I think. The costume isn't the problem, it's how the story deals with his age and embraces it. He still looks fantastic in the costume and it doesn't look out of place in 1960s Italy. Really seems no different to people in westerns wearing the same clothes regardless of their age. 

 

But if he's swinging around like Temple of Doom, then yes, it will be more than a little ridiculous. But if he sticks to riding horseback and driving cars, it'll work. 

 

I am surprised how action heavy the film appears to be though, so maybe they are aiming for a Temple of Doom-esque popcorn ride to close things off!

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It was said many times. The last act of KotCS is crap. But still the movie overall manages to show the heart and the atmosphere and the humor of the old movies. And that is for me a value in itself. I don't take that for granted.

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12 hours ago, Bellosh said:

 

Again, the only true issue with the aliens in this film is the implication that they helped the central and southern American civilizations with agriculture, science, ect ect.  It's an actual disgrace to those people and archaeology itself.  Lazy storytelling.

 

What about the implication that drinking from the Holy Grail can give eternal life?

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Indiana Jones movies are set in a plausible yet cartoonish world.

 

If you didn't understand that, sorry my dear!

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Believe me I have no problems with aliens being in the Indiana Jones franchise. But none of the previous movies 'insult' the intelligence of it's group of people/civilizations like that. (Although the temple of doom dinner scene.... might be some slight issues there lol)

 

Look I don't think it was intentional to be insulting, I just think it's lazy "derrr they live deep in a jungle derrrr how else could they figure out agriculture and math derrr...must be aliens?!"

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On 22/10/2021 at 6:57 PM, Bellosh said:

 

Again, the only true issue with the aliens in this film is the implication that they helped the central and southern American civilizations with agriculture, science, ect ect.  It's an actual disgrace to those people and archaeology itself.  Lazy storytelling.

It is simply a trope from pop culture about Nazca lines--no different than Stargate's treatment of the Ancient Egyptians and many other sci fi stories.  Hell, even Star Trek TNG claims human beings have accomplished what we have because we were seeded by aliens.  Its just standard sci-fi storytelling, and that is what they were going for in IV.  

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I would not call it lazy, just simple and standard.  In fact, I would say the first three  have similarly simple and standard stories (straight out of the 30's), they were just executed so much better.   IJ should not be boring, yet IV is, and for horrifically long stretches--the laziness is in its execution.  

 

While we might differ on premises, I think we share the same conclusion about the movie.  

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i actually really enjoy the movie, with all the issues aside.  the good outweighs the bad for me.  i know it's shit at times, but i don't care.

 

but i'm also someone, who at times, enjoys the young indy series more than the movies...although might not be a fair comparison due the vast difference.

 

35 minutes ago, Tom said:

the laziness is in its execution.  

 

i mean that's essentially what i mean when I say lazy.  if you're going to back yourself into the 'aliens helped an ancient civilization trope' i'm not sure what purpose they can serve on screen besides leaving and killing the villain (which was super boring), like how the macguffins always do.

 

anything involving aliens coming to earth (if not completely pulpy), should involve some suspense and mystery and it really lacked that in this movie.  nobody gave a shit by the time they reached the temple with the aliens.

 

it didn't have any suspense and not enough pulp.

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14 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Look I don't think it was intentional to be insulting, I just think it's lazy "derrr they live deep in a jungle derrrr how else could they figure out agriculture and math derrr...must be aliens?!"

This actually nothing Lucas made up. That is a theory that those alien worshipping pseudo scientists like Erich von Dänecken made up as proof that aliens pushed our civilization. And that the bizzare icon statues of ancient cultures were just imitations of their"Masters" who gave them their knowledge. Picking up these theories in the movie made sense to me because Dänecken developed them in the early 70s or even late 60s.

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