Star Wars Prequel VS. Sequel scores

[Pellaeon 596]

I was going to say TPM is the most memorable SW score outside the OT… but… I am reminded that TPM would have been much better with OT music:

 

 

[DrTenma 117]

I voted for the sequels. Is still an unfinished work, but I think TFA is one of best Williams' scores so far.

[Brundlefly 2,393]

15 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Correct. I mean seriously, can anyone think of three, maybe four tracks superior to Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes, Padmes Ruminations, The Flag Parade, or anything else good from ROTS and TPM. Not really. Zam the Assasin is breifly nice and ATS is obviously one. But.... Exactly!

I can think of lots of tracks superior to Battle of the Heroes and Padmé's Rumunations.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,357]

53 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I can think of lots of tracks superior to Battle of the Heroes and Padmé's Rumunations.

Shoot then.

[John 2,032]

Basically any other track from all three prequel soundtracks.

[The Train Station 8,625]

It's like watching an old geezer feud between John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith.

[Brundlefly 2,393]

But this feud here has a clear winner.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,357]

Wrong.

[John 2,032]

You are such a child.

[Brundlefly 2,393]

We're not talking about the sequels vs prequels. We're talking about Battle of the Heroes and Padmé's Ruminations vs the rest of the prequel music.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,362]

I'd rather listen to Battle for Volcano Island and Padme's Sexual Awakening. 

[Chen G. 4,513]

Yeah, out of the amazing music written for the prequel trilogy, Battle of the Heroes and especially Padme's Ruminations are possibly the worst choice of track imaginable. The latter in particular, sounds like it had been lifted straight out of Gladiator, and it sounds better there, than in Revenge of the Sith!

[Jurassic Shark 12,972]

6 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

I'd rather listen to Battle for Volcano Island and Padme's Sexual Awakening. 

 

That's for the upcoming Special Edition.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,357]

9 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

We're not talking about the sequels vs prequels. We're talking about Battle of the Heroes and Padmé's Ruminations vs the rest of the prequel music.

That's you guys. I'm talking about the thread topic. Maybe you should too....

[Not Mr. Big 4,731]

9 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, out of the amazing music written for the prequel trilogy, Battle of the Heroes and especially Padme's Ruminations are possibly the worst choice of track imaginable. The latter in particular, sounds like it had been lifted straight out of Gladiator, and it sounds better there, than in Revenge of the Sith!

Padme's Rumniations is a great and underrated track

[filmmusic 2,172]

I was just thinking...Do we have a poll about "original vs prequel vs sequel trilogy" score you prefer or shall I start one?

[Sunshine Reger 3,584]

.

[Thor 8,238]

1 hour ago, filmmusic said:

I was just thinking...Do we have a poll about "original vs prequel vs sequel trilogy" score you prefer or shall I start one?

 

Uhm....isn't that exactly what this thread is, the very one you posted in?

 

By the way, the prequel scores win any day of the week. It's not even a competition.

[Jurassic Shark 12,972]

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

By the way, the prequel scores win any day of the week. It's not even a competition.

 

What? You prefer the prequel scores over the OT scores?

[Thor 8,238]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

What? You prefer the prequel scores over the OT scores?

 

No, I missed the part where it also said 'originals' in filmmusic's post.

[Jurassic Shark 12,972]

Just now, Thor said:

 

What are you talking about? This about prequels vs. sequels.

 

That's not what filmmusic was talking about.

[Gurkensalat 346]

Phantom Menace is the best of the 6, but I prefer the sequel score to Ep 2 and 3. So Sequels win for me. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,972]

1 minute ago, Thor said:

 

No, I missed the part where it also said 'originals' in filmmusic's post.

 

Ah, I thought you'd gone insane for a moment there.

[filmmusic 2,172]

8 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Uhm....isn't that exactly what this thread is, the very one you posted in?

 

 

No. this thread does not include the original trilogy. 

 

edit: Ah, ok. You saw that.

[Thor 8,238]

Yes, I missed that point. Read your post too quickly.

[Schilkeman 1,294]

In both instances, I think the third score is less good, but the PT was Williams at his most mature peak. The ST scores are genuinely great, especially TLJ, and would be highlights for any other composer's career, but the PT scores are in a different league.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,347]

That was easy.

PT scores, by a country mile 

[Giftheck 1,008]

This is not a fair fight, TPM and ROTS alone blow all three ST scores out of the water.

[Richard Penna 4,115]

What he said.

 

The sequels would have it were it them vs Aotc, but TPM and RotS are far too finely crafted.

[Chen G. 4,513]

Beyond the individual merits of the scores, ultimately the sequel trilogy though posessing of extremly worthwhile musical qualities,  does not add to the musical argument being made by the music of Star Wars. The prequel scores do.

[Jurassic Shark 12,972]

What's the musical argument?

[GerateWohl 4,988]

For me the sequel scores all together feel stylistically more consistent than the prequel scores.

During the prequel aera Williams made quite a development to the more motivic approach. 

They span exactly in a heavy musical evolution.

 

Anyway, I love all these scores.

[Chen G. 4,513]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What's the musical argument?

 

The music of the Rebels and the Jedi wins over the music of the Empire and the Sith.

 

That had happened, quite definitively, in Return of the Jedi.

[bored 437]

I know no one else cares about this, but the fact that Luke's theme is used so inaccurately, simplistically, and only for nostalgia-bait really lowers my enjoyment of the sequel scores. It's like a stab in the gut when it's used for everything but Luke himself when he has such a critical role in the films.

 

Even though the prequels have this same problem, they at least barely use it. Plus the overuse/reliance of the force theme doesn't help either in the sequels' case. Besides that though, the prequels are unequivocally some of my favorite Star Wars music ever created and Revenge of the Sith is probably my favorite SW score overall. 

[Chen G. 4,513]

27 minutes ago, bored said:

I know no one else cares about this, but the fact that Luke's theme is used so inaccurately, simplistically, and only for nostalgia-bait really lowers my enjoyment of the sequel scores. It's like a stab in the gut when it's used for everything but Luke himself when he has such a critical role in the films.

 

I used to be a stickler for that, too. But more and more I realise that the power of these themes is in their capacity for change. That's what funny about motive lists with names, is people try and find a name that "covers all the bases" so to speak, but the fact of the matter is that a theme can mean X and then come to mean Y only later. Obviously not all musico-poetic developments are going to feel as warranted or as succesfull to all people, but in this case it doesn't really bother me in and of itself.

 

I think that, looking beyond the individual themes, the Star Wars scores are built on a kind of binary opposition in music: there's the "good guy music" (the Jedi and Rebels/Republic) and "bad guy music" (The Sith and the Separatists/Empire). They're juxtaposed all throughout, and then at the end of Return of the Jedi, the good guys' music clearly wins.

 

Once its won, its over.

[Jurassic Shark 12,972]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

The music of the Rebels and the Jedi wins over the music of the Empire and the Sith.

 

That had happened, quite definitively, in Return of the Jedi.

 

You mean with the barbecue party?

[Davis 2,796]

I prefer the prequel scores. What I don't like about the sequel scores has more to do with the fact that Williams' style is closer to the prequel scores because he wrote the sequels after the prequels. Had he written the sequels right after ther OT, his style wouldn't have followed the PT's style. This change up made the ST more like a musical sequel to the PT rather than the OT, which I dislike. I like the ST scores, but imho they are the weakest of the three trilogies. Which is no wonder considering that the ST films are the weakest of the nine SW films. Poor JW didn't have much to work with. Still he managed to create REY'S THEME which is one of the greatest SW themes he ever wrote. 

[bored 437]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I used to be a stickler for that, too. But more and more I realise that the power of these themes is in their capacity for change. That's what funny about motive lists with names, is people try and find a name that "covers all the bases" so to speak, but the fact of the matter is that a theme can mean X and then come to mean Y only later. Obviously not all musico-poetic developments are going to feel as warranted or as succesfull to all people, but in this case it doesn't really bother me in and of itself.

 

 

I understand that the theme was supposed to change, I guess I just prefer it being Luke's theme because of how much Williams went through to develop it to mirror Luke's arc. Making it minor in Empire to reflect Luke's inexperience and failures through the film and maturing it back to its full glory in Major, but only playing it in pieces until its mostly full appearance in the Sarlacc Pit fight. I also like to think of the end credits of Return of the Jedi as its satisfying conclusion. 

 

What it changed into is just far less interesting to me. It basically turned into "Star Wars! Star Wars! Star Wars!" in every film following the OT minus Revenge of the Sith with Luke being brought to Owen and Beru.

 

To give an idea of why it annoys me, imagine if Howard Shore opened The Hobbit films with the "History of the Ring" theme just because "it's part of the same series". Yes it'd technically make sense because the ring is in those movies, but the films are not about it. Or if Danny Elfman's Spider-Man theme was used for Miles Morales (hypothetically if he was in the Raimi universe) just because he's also Spider-Man. 

 

46 minutes ago, JTW said:

Still he managed to create REY'S THEME which is one of the greatest SW themes he ever wrote.

 

That theme is the shining star of those scores.

[Chen G. 4,513]

2 minutes ago, bored said:

To give an idea of why it annoys me, imagine if Howard Shore opened The Hobbit films with the "History of the Ring" theme just because "it's part of the same series". Yes it'd technically make sense because the ring is in those movies, but the films are not about it.

 

I do get that feeling about a theme in the sequel trilogy, but a different one: the theme associated with the Force and the way its used in The Last Jedi... Really cheapens Binary Sunset.

[Tom 5,043]

For the prequel vs home alone scores thread:

 

 

[Doo_liss 6,269]

8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

I do get that feeling about a theme in the sequel trilogy, but a different one: the theme associated with the Force and the way its used in The Last Jedi... Really cheapens Binary Sunset.

I get this.

 

For me though, there will be some that are just meh, and then there will be some that are actually pretty good, for example the glassy sounding one for Leia's Mary Poppins y'all scene.

[Schilkeman 1,294]

I also think the LSO outclasses the LA group. The LSO brass is still outstanding, but it was a murderer's row of world class talent in the early 2000s. The strings were also much better. I would have loved it if the ST scores had gotten recorded with them.

[GerateWohl 4,988]

4 hours ago, Presto said:

for example the glassy sounding one for Leia's Mary Poppins y'all scene.

That was Leia's Theme, wasn't it?

[Doo_liss 6,269]

7 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

That was Leia's Theme, wasn't it?

No.

9 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

I also think the LSO outclasses the LA group. The LSO brass is still outstanding, but it was a murderer's row of world class talent in the early 2000s. The strings were also much better. I would have loved it if the ST scores had gotten recorded with them.

Its more the room than the players tbh.

[GerateWohl 4,988]

36 minutes ago, Presto said:

No.

The scene has one whole minute of Leia's theme and two short four seconds renditions to the force theme.

 

 

But you were referring to the four seconds I guess?

[Schilkeman 1,294]

1 hour ago, Presto said:

Its more the room than the players tbh.

There are elements of tone, blend, technique, and phrasing that have nothing to do with the studio or the mixing. 

[Datameister 2,254]

On 19/01/2024 at 8:47 AM, Schilkeman said:

There are elements of tone, blend, technique, and phrasing that have nothing to do with the studio or the mixing. 

I would love to fly the LSO to California to record something at Sony, and then fly LA players to London to record something at Abbey Road. I think it would be very illuminating for all of us.

 

Anyone got a few million dollars we could throw at this?

[Doo_liss 6,269]

1 hour ago, Datameister said:

I would love to fly the LSO to California to record something at Sony

Wasn’t it recently mentioned that Horner kind of did just that for Zorro?

[Chen G. 4,513]

On 19/01/2024 at 6:16 PM, GerateWohl said:

The scene has one whole minute of Leia's theme and two short four seconds renditions to the force theme.

 

Look, just because I take issue with the use of Binary Sunset in The Last Jedi doesn't mean it take issue with every single instance of it: its more the overall effect that wears down on one. So, sure, in this scene there are just two quick statements (at least one of which is VERY similar to Binary Sunset), but its more the culminative effect of all those statements across the film.

 

And, I should add, that theme is NOT used so broadly in either The Force Awakens OR The Rise of Skywalker. Its very much a quirk of The Last Jedi that, whenever anything vaguely impactful happens onscreen, you can bet you'll hear a solo horn leading into a big cresdendo in the strings with that theme. It makes it both repetitive and kind of dissolves its dramatic associations: in 1977 it was a theme for an old, exiled Jedi. By 1983, it was a theme for the all-powerful Force. In 2017, it became an almost completely abstract musical device.

[GerateWohl 4,988]

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Look, just because I take issue with the use of Binary Sunset in The Last Jedi doesn't mean it take issue with every single instance of it: its more the overall effect that wears down on one. So, sure, in this scene there are just two quick statements (at least one of which is VERY similar to Binary Sunset), but its more the culminative effect of all those statements across the film.

 

And, I should add, that theme is NOT used so broadly in either The Force Awakens OR The Rise of Skywalker. Its very much a quirk of The Last Jedi that, whenever anything vaguely impactful happens onscreen, you can bet you'll hear a solo horn leading into a big cresdendo in the strings with that theme. It makes it both repetitive and kind of dissolves its dramatic associations: in 1977 it was a theme for an old, exiled Jedi. By 1983, it was a theme for the all-powerful Force. In 2017, it became an almost completely abstract musical device.

I agree. No matter how much I like the TLJ score, I always thought, an own TLJ theme for those lyrical emotional moments, that are not related to Rose, is missing. So, Williams used the force theme instead. Might be a temp track issue.