Remasters of the First 6 Star Wars Soundtracks now available (Shawn Murphy / Disney Records 2018)

[Amer 2,099]

I can't wait for Chris Malone to disect these albums. 

[phbart 609]

I hoped he would disect the 2016 releases. Maybe he's waiting for this release to make a comparision.

[Turbo 54]

Speaking of the booklet for a moment, John Williams name immediately stuck out and not in a good way.

[Faleel 5,346]

J. Ohn Williams!

 

[phbart 609]

JJ Ohn Williams.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

AOTC sounds cool in those samples.

[phbart 609]

I think all the prequels CDs sounds better than the original releases. I bet they splitted the work at Skywalker Sound. Shawn Murphy worked on the prequels, which he recorded himself so he has more intimacy with it, and the trainees worked on the OT, beggining with ESB. Once Murphy heard the final ESB material, he slapped them on the wrist and told them they better get things right with SW and RoTJ since there was no time to correct ESB.

[DarthDeckardJones 13]

This release is a disappointment. I just got 5 of the 6 CDs. ANH is Tuesday? To me it is just a sloppy mess. The lazy covers should have been the first clue. On my way home I listened to the 2016 Sony release of “The Asteroid Field”, as the new 2018 remaster was getting the worst reviews on here, then popped in the 2018 CD once I got home and it doesn’t sound right at all. Things are pushed back in the mix and it just sounds awful like they didn’t finish balancing it. The 2016 release was fine to me. I know more can be pulled out of the LSO performance with proper remastering but this is not that. It baffles the mind that Empire the one I wanted the most as it was the first time the double album was going to be properly released on CD is the most screwed up. How is it that THE MOST IMPORTANT film score series of all time has had the greatest difficulty getting released properly? Don’t get me started on the terrible Indiana Jones releases from 2008. Spent weeks pitch adjusting those tracks which I could not have done without the help of the fine folks on this site. Sorry for the rant but this release pisses me off.

[Lockdown 238]

Where can one listen to this Asteroid Field mix by Shawn Murphy. I see people mentioning it is on the RotS DVD. The film, or some bonus disc that was included with the OST?

[Faleel 5,346]

Option 2.

[crumbs 14,306]

3 hours ago, phbart said:

"Luke's First Crash" (or "Beneath the AT-AT") portion from track 12 "Rebels at Bay" seems to follow the same screw up from "Asteroid Field" and "Battle in the Snow", with some kind of weird processing (noise reduction?) applied to the right channel but not on the left channel.

 

 

It's safe to assume that they didn't used the 24 track tapes for all cues on this release, even though they were supposed to have all the material used for the 2LP album (therefore, this release). Makes me wonder who well they were preserved from 1997 on...

 

This is the point I was trying to make earlier (though I mistakenly referenced Battle in the Snow rather than Rebels at Bay, as a track which contained multiple cues). So this indicates that only certain cues suffer from this issue, rather than entire tracks (comprised of multiple cues).

 

So this isn't necessarily a mastering issue of the final tracks but something that was screwed up very early in the scanning process with isolated cues. OR, the more grim possibility, some cues (Asteroid, Snow, Crash) couldn't be obtained from the same source as the others (the 24 track masters), and had to be sourced from a lesser quality tape (hence the shit quality that they've attempted to smooth over with excessive reverb).

 

I'm just really hoping for brazen incompetence at this point. The idea that some of the tapes have degraded beyond repair is unsettling.

 

Out of interest, is there any correlation between these cues and session dates. Were they all recorded on the same day (and thus likely recorded on the same tape)?

[Drew 590]

8 minutes ago, Lockdown said:

Where can one listen to this Asteroid Field mix by Shawn Murphy. I see people mentioning it is on the RotS DVD. The film, or some bonus disc that was included with the OST?

 

It’s a bonus DVD included in some pressings of the ROTS soundtrack. It features highlights from “all” six scores in surround sound. Unfortunately, someone thought adding random dialogue and SFX would add to the experience. The only clean cue is The Forest Battle, save for some SFX at the very end.

[Faleel 5,346]

It's essentially a prototype of the old Star Wars In Concert.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So are the Sony releases from not that long ago a better purchase?

[crumbs 14,306]

Listening through Empire from start to finish for the first time, it's such a shame that most of these tracks sound fantastic!!

 

But then you get some absolutely bizarre audio issues like at 4:40 of The Heroics of Luke and Han. Like, what the hell is with that instant change in sound quality? It's like someone grabbed my speakers and dunked them underwater halfway through a note. And over the next 20 seconds the audio returns (mostly) to normal. Is this just a case of degraded elements?

 

Geez, Departure of Boba Fett sounds borderline mono for the first 40 seconds.

[Jay 37,351]

On 5/5/2018 at 12:22 AM, Stefancos said:

So are the Sony releases from not that long ago a better purchase?

 

Yes, but they were only released digitally and on vinyl; not on CD. 

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

I'd like to describe my impression. First of all I know nothing about sound mixing but I play several instruments and would describe myself as an audiophile. ;-)

 

and yes, some edits are really terrible, no doubt about that. But moving on to sound mixing:

 

It's my strong believe that one's taste regarding sound mixing is heavily shaped by one's listening experience. To put it simply: you tend to like what you hear the most or what you grew up with. Well, maybe just kitchen sink philosophy. But I noticed that speaking of sound mixing / sound quality (not necessarily musical quality) my favorite John Williams OSTs are Hook, Home Alone 2 and Jurassic Park. I dont think it's a coincidence that they are all from the early 90s. The sound quality and mixing changed over the years (obviously) and for example I really dont like the sound of TinTin and KOTCS. So in the end, to me, it's really a question of taste and personal preferences. 

 

That being said, I don't like this new mixing, especially TPM. It sounds very crisp, very pure, but also quite steril. Feels like they deconstructed the whole thing and put it back together, track by track. Feels like you can hear every single track very clear now, with every little details. Which CAN be quite interesting, but I miss a good blending. Call it a certain muddyness that I'd prefer. It's gone. To me it sounds too perfect. The choir in Duel of the fates sounds clearer, more crisp, but also less voluminous.

[Chewy 2,388]

Yeah the prequels kind of sound like modern crystal clear mixing like KOTCS and Tintin, I like it!

[crumbs 14,306]

I can't stand how KOTCS or Tintin sound, I can relate to exactly what @lemoncurd is describing.

 

Just as I can't stand TFA's very dry mixing but I adore TLJ's warmer, wetter mix. Go figure.

[aj_vader 534]

I teach how to mix Film Music (mainly orchestral mock ups), I'm going to be using these releases (particularly Empire Strikes Back) to show what NOT to do. I'm so deflated, I should have guessed that these would disappoint us, I was trying to be optimistic. 

 

I love the prequels they sound really good, looking forward to those being expanded, just hope it's MM. 

[Giftheck 916]

Yeah, I think the takeaway is that the Prequels sound really great, it's just the take choices and some bad editing that lets them down. The OT, particularly TESB and partly ROTJ, sound quite badly constructed.

[Arpy 4,145]

I think they mixed the choir too loud in the mix in Anakin vs. Obi-wan during the choral statement of the Force Theme.  Comparing the original, the theme is less defined because of the mix here.

 

There's also a jarring cut in the Battle Over Coruscant section. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,713]

So is this release really a bust, or is this just us being us? Sounds like a missed opportunity at best.

 

@Jay, I read your entire exchange w/phbart. I have no idea what he was on about either.

[phbart 609]

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I'm just really hoping for brazen incompetence at this point. The idea that some of the tapes have degraded beyond repair is unsettling.

 

Out of interest, is there any correlation between these cues and session dates. Were they all recorded on the same day (and thus likely recorded on the same tape)?

I believe that once the recording sessions are done and the editing process starts, they grab the takes (I was gonna say "they take the takes") selected by JW by physically cutting them out of the reel where all the takes are recorded and they put together another set of reels, which I think they call it the reel with the "goodies". So even if JW decided latter at the sessions to give another try at that cue and thought it was a good take, it would be part of that goodies reel all together. If that's indeed how it was done, then I think it wouldn't matter if all takes were recorded on different days. If it was one of the good takes selected by JW, it would be on the same reel.

 

And I share your feelings about how unsettling it is that a first generation material like a 24 track tape which was available (and used) not that long ago hasn't been again stored properly and has deteriorated beyond use with no digital backup made at any time.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

So this isn't necessarily a mastering issue of the final tracks but something that was screwed up very early in the scanning process with isolated cues. OR, the more grim possibility, some cues (Asteroid, Snow, Crash) couldn't be obtained from the same source as the others (the 24 track masters), and had to be sourced from a lesser quality tape (hence the shit quality that they've attempted to smooth over with excessive reverb).

 

I'm just really hoping for brazen incompetence at this point. The idea that some of the tapes have degraded beyond repair is unsettling.

 

Out of interest, is there any correlation between these cues and session dates. Were they all recorded on the same day (and thus likely recorded on the same tape)?

 

This is the most important question in this thread so far.

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

Well, we know there are better masters for those lousy sounding tracks - the original album mix. Therefore, it's very likely a screwup.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

One of the tracks that struck me the most with ROTS was Padme's Ruminations. On the original album, there's a decent amount of reverb being used, especially on the female singer. Here there is none; so there is this bizarre echo/delay effect being used on the singer that I never really noticed before. It just sounds strange to me personally.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Well, we know there are better masters for those lousy sounding tracks - the original album mix. Therefore, it's very likely a screwup.

 

But just in case that's all that remains, it might not be enough for good sounding releases of the full scores.

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

10 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

But just in case that's all that remains, it might not be enough for good sounding releases of the full scores.

 

Of course, but for the OST releases there's no excuse.

[Bespin 8,480]

I read all comments so far... I understand that the comparisons with the previously released material is deceiving...but.is it really the mess some describe? I listened to ANH, ESB and now TPM... I honestly have not listened to anything that bottered me.

 

One last thing, group, can you.prevent yourselves from commenting the sound quality of a recording if you use crappy headphones or speaker... even if you told us. :-)

[Arpy 4,145]

No, but I think things could be improved.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I didn't take any issues with the prequels at all. They sound perfect to me (perhaps other than a few bad micro-edits, which I expected). The only OT film I've been able to sample so far is part of TESB, part of what sounded really good, and then cues like "The Asteroid Field" which clearly has some issues. I haven't had the time to listen to ROTJ yet, and ANH apparently isn't arriving in the mail until Tuesday for whatever reason.

[Bespin 8,480]

I conceive that I'm not actually surounded by a landscape that will make me say anything negative about Star Wars today :-)

[Nick1Ø66 4,713]

Looks pretty cloudy. And windy. Nobody on the beach.

 

You might as well be here in England mate!

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

Maybe he is...

[voltisubito 42]

Spectral comparison of the various releases of The Asteroid Field over the years:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[karelm 2,913]

30 minutes ago, voltisubito said:

Spectral comparison of the various releases of The Asteroid Field over the years:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is clearly more compression between 1993 and 2018.  I generally prefer less compression in orchestral music of this style.  Compression during the mix/mastering stage means the floor of the volume will be raised so sometimes that can introduce hiss and ambient noises that were previously unnoticed.  Generally speaking, a skilled mixer will use a multi-band compressor so it doesn't just raise all frequencies the same way because that isn't how instruments get loud.  Some frequencies you might not want to raise as much as other frequencies.  I haven't yet listened to any of these yet because Spotify compresses (now talking about the audio fidelity, not the mastering compression) the audio so I don't consider that an audiophile experience and haven't decided if I'm going to get this since I've purchased these damn soundtracks for the umpteenth time every time they come out with a new and improved version only to find out it solves some problems and introduces some new ones.  I am still on the fence about these.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

JWFan review of Disney's first reissue of the SW scores:

 

"Sounds pretty bad."

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

Spot on.

[Arpy 4,145]

Am I crazy for preferring the Hoth Medley over the two separate cues (Battle in the Snow and The Heroics of Han and Leia)?

[phbart 609]

I prefer them like that too, but on gapless separate tracks.

 

Anyway, if a future expanded release will ever happen in this lifetime, we very likely won't have tracks longer than 10 minutes. MM said on the E.T. interview how administratively complicated they are.

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

19 minutes ago, phbart said:

Anyway, if a future expanded release will ever happen in this lifetime, we very likely won't have tracks longer than 10 minutes. MM said on the E.T. interview how administratively complicated they are.

 

What do you mean?

[phbart 609]

Quote

 

"Adventure on Earth” was one long 15-minute track on the 1982 album, and remained that way on the 1996 and 2002 CDs.  How did it come to be split into two tracks for the new edition?

 

A few reasons. Firstly, the mechanical rate goes up on a track that’s more than 10 minutes now. Publishers have gotten wise to labels dodging mechanicals by making their tracks long. Secondly, the cues were overlapped on the 2002 release and I didn’t want to risk getting asked to do that again if it came up. I could have argued that the cues were separated on the original album, but it seemed easiest, in light of the publishing issue, to circumvent the potential hiccup altogether by just making “The Departure” a separate track. Musically I think it’s something that is good to facilitate easy access to anyway, especially since there’s an alternate version of it on disc 2.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Sorry, "mechanical rate"?

[Jay 37,351]

 

On 5/5/2018 at 12:30 PM, Margo Channing said:

Sorry, "mechanical rate"?

 

https://diymusician.cdbaby.com/musician-tips/what-is-a-mechanical-royalty/

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

I could have argued that the cues were separated on the original album

 

But they weren't!

[Jay 37,351]

He meant they didn't have the massive overlap that they do on the 2002 CD

[deleted account 108]

Obviously all of this is subjective.  For example, I really dislike both the sound and the playing on TFA, which was LA and SONY, compared to the LSO and Abbey Road.  That said, there are some definite highlights of these new mixes, but like any project where they rebuild something fundamentally new from something old, it's going to sound different, and that difference is jarring, wether it's better or worse.  

 

A big challenge for SW and ESB, especially, is that they were originally recorded in an old fashioned way for movies, and in the case of SW, the orchestra was comparatively smaller.  But there is probably a mandate from somewhere (either Disney, or JW himself) to try and make the 6 scores all sound as consistent to one another as possible.  

 

In 1977 and 1980, movies were still being shown in big movie palaces where the theater itself added reverb to the sound, so the music was recorded dry and tight.  Home video didn't really exist, certainly not home theaters.  If you listen to the 2-disc JAWS set, the movie versions all sound more like the SW/ESB sound and the album versions all sound more like the Asteroid Field on this new mix.  The original JAWS LP was all rerecorded, if I understand correctly, at a different studio with a different engineer, than the film versions.

 

I think a deceptive element to the 2005 bonus DVD is that (A) it's in surround sound, and (B) it's got DIA/SFX over it.  The surround sound can really bring flatter, dryer mixes to life by enveloping you in subtle spacial effects, as well as using compression in a more aggressive way without it being as obvious.  In addition, once you put dia and sfx on top, it puts the music in a context that makes it's trickier to judge on its own.

 

On top of all that, I can tell you from direct evidence that Lucasfilm is a mess when it comes to the archiving of the scores.  No one took the time, especially with SW and ESB, to properly catalog everything and retain the elements.  Lucasfilm had to buy a multi-track reel of SW music from Ebay just to get it back a few years ago!  Their "official" archive of TPM, for example, was distressingly patchwork, with elements from the OST and UE being the only things they had for certain cues, and other cues, like "Up The Wires", missing entirely.  ROTS was the only score of the original 6 to be seemingly properly archived.  

 

My guess is that Disney would have preferred to release proper complete versions of the scores, but that JW insisted on the original albums.  Disney and Lucasfilm seem to be going to great lengths to comply with his wishes after the music issues on Rogue One.  I wouldn't be surprised if, much like the original 3 films coming out after GL shuffles off this mortal coil, we'll see complete scores come out once JW has joined the choir eternal.  

 

I also would not be surprised if, as a result of all the live concerts being done of the original 3 movies, new recordings might be made of the scores, at least as they appear in the films...

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,066]

12 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

Obviously all of this is subjective.  For example, I really dislike both the sound and the playing on TFA, which was LA and SONY, compared to the LSO and Abbey Road.  That said, there are some definite highlights of these new mixes, but like any project where they rebuild something fundamentally new from something old, it's going to sound different, and that difference is jarring, wether it's better or worse.  

 

Sure, but there's a difference between a different soundscape and bad craftsmanship.

 

15 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

My guess is that Disney would have preferred to release proper complete versions of the scores, but that JW insisted on the original albums.  Disney and Lucasfilm seem to be going to great lengths to comply with his wishes after the music issues on Rogue One.  I wouldn't be surprised if, much like the original 3 films coming out after GL shuffles off this mortal coil, we'll see complete scores come out once JW has joined the choir eternal.  

 

I doubt JW altogether refused new complete releases. After all, the OT and TPM already had complete releases. But it's definitely a possibility that he wanted to prioritize the OST programs, but in the end it was Disney/Lucasfilm's call.

[MikeH 768]

Crazy to think that relatively recent (and big!) scores like TPM and AOTC have such problems related to archiving. It really is the “it’s finished let’s move on” mentality. 

 

These are the kind of things I’d love to hear Williams’ insight on. Of course he’s very humble about his work, I’m sure he still wants everything preserved properly. He has his manuscripts and I’m sure JKMS has all his sketches and full scores digitized by now. 

 

Seeing as how JW is such a control freak in the best sense of the label, does he care about this stuff after the film is finished? Or is he even aware of things like TPM not being properly archived?