Anyone here succumbed to 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray?

[Andy 5,006]

With the waxy AI sheen all over everything, it’ll make the entire cast match the Stan Winston Arnold head from the eyeball scene.  It’ll be seamless!

[TSMefford 1,525]

I absolutely hate the studios and/or directors feeling the need to "clean up" movies shot on film with DNR, and the oversharpening. Just scan the film in 4K, clean up any film damage if there's any, and leave it at that. Leave the AI or even the standard DNR out of it.

 

Now sometimes DNR does serve a legitimate purpose. For example, I've heard that sometimes it's done to remove the grain from plates or elements used for VFX, then after the full composite is done, "restore" the grain so that the image feels cohesive. It gives away VFX if the grain and noise don't match. So that makes sense to me.

 

I imagine it's also done in post-conversion 3D releases for a similar reason, probably don't want different sizes and levels of grain for the 3D elements. 

 

That being said, there is such laziness just using those same masters. What happened to treating these films with proper respect? Can't wait until 8K takes off and they have to upscale everything again.

[Andy 5,006]

I completely agree, but I don’t think we will be “collecting” 8K or another format.   I can’t imagine physical media lasting into another format. 

[TSMefford 1,525]

25 minutes ago, Andy said:

I completely agree, but I don’t think we will be “collecting” 8K or another format.   I can’t imagine physical media lasting into another format. 

 

Way to bum me out. Lol.

[Brando 2,058]

James Cameron supervising the opening scene:

[Andy 5,006]

45 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

 

Way to bum me out. Lol.

Don’t listen to me. I am probably wrong!  I’ll be the first to admit that I’m often full of it.  Hopefully the pendulum will swing back to physical media, especially if it offers an incredible quality that streaming can’t touch. But who knows. 

[A24 4,514]

My 4K Sony player is dead! I hardly used it! And there's still a disc inside but since it's dead I can't take it out.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

RIP.

 

(both player and disc)

[Naïve Old Fart 10,241]

13 minutes ago, A24 said:

My 4K Sony player is dead! I hardly used it! And there's still a disc inside but since it's dead I can't take it out.  

 

I had a Sony Blu player that wouldn't open. 

There is online advice on how to open Sony Blus.

How old is it? Is it still under guarantee, Alex?

[A24 4,514]

25 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

I had a Sony Blu player that wouldn't open. 

There is online advice on how to open Sony Blus.

How old is it? Is it still under guarantee, Alex?

 

I have to look online then. Thanks! I guess I have to remove the top cover.

Of course, it's no longer under guarantee. The player is more than 2 years old. I didn't use it much because of streaming.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,241]

@A24

OOI, Alex, what disc is stuck inside?

Mine was DOCTOR WHO series 1/27/Whatever*, disc 1.

I got it out, eventually.

 

 

* delete where inapplicable 

[A24 4,514]

4 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

@A24

OOI, Alex, what disc is stuck inside?

Mine was DOCTOR WHO series 1/27/Whatever*, disc 1.

I got it out, eventually.

 

 

 

BTW, I'm not the only one with this problem. Some people played like 5 discs before their player died.

[A24 4,514]

I got the disc out but I had to watch a video to know how to do it. The Sony UBP-X800M2 is completely dismantled now and ready to be thrown into the trash can. No more SONY for me!

[GerateWohl 4,938]

1 hour ago, A24 said:

 

That explains why the player committed suicide.

[A24 4,514]

Second time I'm watching it and it it's still very entertaining. It's SONY that sucks. It always has.

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

I guess you'll have to watch the rest on your PlayStation 3.

[A24 4,514]

43 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I guess you'll have to watch the rest on your PlayStation 3.

 

No, sir! I still have my trusty JVC Blu-ray player. 

 

 

 

 

BTW, is the PS5 a 4K Blu-ray player? (I have nothing against Sony Interactive Entertainment division)

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

I think so. 

[A24 4,514]

Hmm, they say it's a noisy player when it comes to 4K. Standard Blu-ray is fine.  

[Andy 5,006]

Oof, sorry @A24! I know precisely how you feel. I had the same player brick on me like that.  Now I’m rocking a Panasonic and I can enjoy the normal anxiety of hoping the fragile 4K medium doesn’t skip on every brand new disc that I buy. 

[A24 4,514]

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

Oof, sorry @A24! I know precisely how you feel. I had the same player brick on me like that.  Now I’m rocking a Panasonic and I can enjoy the normal anxiety of hoping the fragile 4K medium doesn’t skip on every brand new disc that I buy. 

 

Over at reddit people say that the Panasonic 4K players are the best. At the time I opted for the Sony because it was 200 Euro cheaper. If only I knew! 

[Andy 5,006]

I’ll never buy a SONY player again.  I have mixed feelings about my SONY TV also. 

[A24 4,514]

The Panasonic flagship player looks nice (like a decent CD player actually) but 1300 Euro is a little too expensive. 

 

[Andy 5,006]

Yes and yes. 
 

I have the Panasonic DP-UB420

 

 

Not as sexy but gets the job mostly done. Mostly. 

[Naïve Old Fart 10,241]

@Andy

Does it mostly come out at night? 

[Andy 5,006]

Me, wiping manufacturer’s oils from the 4K disc so it won’t skip. 
 

[filmmusic 2,139]

26 minutes ago, Andy said:

Me, wiping manufacturer’s oils from the 4K disc so it won’t skip. 

I haven't ever encountered oil in 4k discs, although I have seen people talk about it.

[Andy 5,006]

Shout Factory discs have it. I think it’s from the plastic case outgassing or something. 

[Naïve Old Fart 10,241]

55 minutes ago, Andy said:

Me, wiping manufacturer’s oils from the 4K disc so it won’t skip. 
 

 

Just as long as it's not hot chocolate 

[Jay 38,872]

So last night I watched my first 4K disc ever.

 

My setup is a Sony UBP-X700M player and Sony Bravia 65" OLED TV.  I went with The Fifth Element (hey, that's a Sony disc too), a film I have loved since seeing it twice at the cinema, and have re-watched at home many times including both different blu rays Sony has put out.

 

Maybe this wasn't the best choice for my first experience, because I wasn't OVERLY impressed with the picture quality.  It was very grainy, which I do find better than overly-DNRed, but maybe a light amount of DNR would have been wise here, or maybe this is a fake 4K from a 2K master, I dunno, I haven't investigated.  However, on the positive side, I DID notice new things in the background at times I had never noticed before (whether this is due to the increased resolution or simply because I tend to look for background details in films I have seen this many times, I cannot say), and never thought the picture looked BAD at all by any means.  The colors seemed fine, but not amazing; I was mildy curious to pick a few scenes from the old blus to look for differences, but haven't done so yet.

 

But what was really interesting was that the disc contains a new 10 minute special feature of Luc Besson talking about the movie in 2017, and his talk is interspersed with many clips from the movie.  Well, those clips looks VERY different from the master of the film on the same disc!  I would guess they come from StudioCanal's 4K master, but don't know that for sure.  Regardless of the origin, the difference between these clips and Sony's 4K master is immediately apparent.  There is WAY less grain in all these clips.  Whether that is due to DNR, or a different process, I dunno, but there WAS SO much less grain I think even a layman would notice, especially if you watch this right after watching the film on the same disc.  I couldn't REALLY tell if any details were lost in this less-grain version, but it was super interesting to see the difference.

 

 

Oh, and another thing.  The player came with a 18gps HDMI cable, which I used to connect the player to my receiver.  However, I realized that I have no idea what the HDMI cable that goes from my receiver to my TV is rated at.  If it is an old cable that isn't rated for 18gbps, did I screw myself and watch the entire film at lesser quality?

[filmmusic 2,139]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

It was very grainy, which I do find better than overly-DNRed, but maybe a light amount of DNR would have been wise here, or maybe this is a fake 4K from a 2K master, I dunno, I haven't investigated. 

I saw the caps-a-holic comparison between yours (Sony UHD) and mine (Studio Canal UHD).

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=17541&d2=17540&s1=196175&s2=196151&i=16&l=0

Mine has a bit of a yellow tint, but I don't mind. It's not much.

As far as grain is concerned, I don't see excessive amount of grain. I find it looks the same with properly restored films on UHD.

 

Anyway, before you purchase a title, better check the caps-a-holic site too to see screenshots of the UHDs you're interested in.

I have found it very helpful in deciding what to purchase, and see the differences between several editions.

By the way, if you're interested in some Paramount UHDs, take notice that the European equivalents are much better encoding-wise:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=374093

 

 

22 minutes ago, Jay said:

Well, those clips looks VERY different from the master of the film on the same disc! 

Maybe because those clips are just in HD (or even worse in SD) so you don't notice the grain?

[Jay 38,872]

Interesting, on that site I prefer the US version for most of the shots they have.  But neither version looks like the clips seen in the featurette, which was practically free of grain.  They must have made a DNRed version of the film too for some reason, either that only they specifically DNRed the clips used in the featurette.  Weird.

[Andy 5,006]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wasn't OVERLY impressed with the picture quality. 

My same reaction to almost every 4K.  Is it a combo pack with the Blu Ray?  I will frequently compare the Blu to the 4K and not see much difference, as long as they are from the same scan. 
 

 

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

 The colors seemed fine, but not amazing; I was mildy curious to pick a few scenes from the old blus to look for differences, but haven't done so yet.

Again, this is usually my reaction. It’s fine.  For a format that keeps telling me about its “wide color gamut”, I don’t feel like I’m seeing the entire Geordi LaForge spectrum with my jaw dropping to the floor.   I suspect I’m not supposed to be seeing the floor demo quality material with film, but a darker, duller picture that is more faithful to celluloid?  I don’t know.  I will say I do not have Dolby Vision, but my SONY XBR-65X900E ought to do the job. 
 

The real appeal for me is not the HDR, but the opportunity for a fresh scan to get it right.  But that, as we know, doesn’t always happen. 
 

18 minutes ago, Jay said:

It was very grainy, which I do find better than overly-DNRed, but maybe a light amount of DNR would have been wise here, or maybe this is a fake 4K from a 2K master, I dunno, I haven't investigated. 

We tend to think a slick futuristic movie like 5th Element would have a polished look to it, right?  But it is an old movie now.  I think healthy, appropriate grain is good, but I also think there’s a place for careful, precise DNR.  It’s analogous to hiss elimination in our music recordings.  You still want the recording to breathe with living air, but mitigate the distracting hiss.  That’s where I fall with grain. I really don’t want it distracting. 
 

I’d be curious to hear your thoughts about comparing the Blu. Your TV probably does an excellent job upscaling a 1080p source to 4K. 
 

I also feel vindicated  knowing that you weren’t absolutely “blown away” and that it’s not just me.  Truly, I want to be dazzled,, but I’m not there yet. It may be my TV, because I don’t have an OLED.  But that’s one of the things that bugs me about the format. You can’t just have a decent SONY 4K TV, you gotta have OLED and Dolby Vision. 
 

At the end of the day, for me it’s about watching the movie, not the pixels. I obviously want the best presentation possible.  But 4K is not the step up from Blu as Blu was to DVD. 

[Jay 38,872]

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

Is it a combo pack with the Blu Ray?

 

It is, but I'd guess the BD disc is the same one I already owned, and not a new BD disc from the new master they made for the 4K disc... but I don't really know.  Maybe I can find out.

 

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

Again, this is usually my reaction. It’s fine.  For a format that keeps telling me about its “wide color gamut”, I don’t feel like I’m seeing the entire Geordi LaForge spectrum with my jaw dropping to the floor.   I suspect I’m not supposed to be seeing the floor demo quality material with film, but a darker, duller picture that is more faithful to celluloid?  I don’t know. 

 

I've seen streaming content with Dolby Vision and the difference in colors is noticeable for sure.  And PS4 games with HDR are amazing too.  But this Fifth Element disc didn't have Dolby Vision anyway, or HDR10+, just base HDR

 

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

We tend to think a slick futuristic movie like 5th Element would have a polished look to it, right?  But it is an old movie now.  I think healthy, appropriate grain is good, but I also think there’s a place for careful, precise DNR.  It’s analogous to hiss elimination in our music recordings.  You still want the recording to breathe with living air, but mitigate the distracting hiss.  That’s where I fall with grain. I really don’t want it distracting.

 

Right, that's what I was trying to say

 

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

I’d be curious to hear your thoughts about comparing the Blu. Your TV probably does an excellent job upscaling a 1080p source to 4K.

 

Well the player itself would upscale it to 4K first anyway

 

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

I also feel vindicated  knowing that you weren’t absolutely “blown away” and that it’s not just me.  Truly, I want to be dazzled,, but I’m not there yet. It may be my TV, because I don’t have an OLED.  But that’s one of the things that bugs me about the format. You can’t just have a decent SONY 4K TV, you gotta have OLED and Dolby Vision.

 

And discs that actually have Dolby Vision encoding, which hardly any do right now

 

20 minutes ago, Andy said:

4K is not the step up from Blu as Blu was to DVD. 

 

Oh, absolutely!  On any TV under 65", it would be pointless to upgrade to 4K.  I'm not even sure if my 65" is even big enough for it to have been worth it; I noticed that if I sat where our couch is, I couldn't see fine background details anyway.  It was only when I moved a different chair to be closer to the TV that I was able to really take in everything the picture was showing me.

 

A friend of mine has a 117" screen in his basement with a 4K Projector.  I should re-watch this same disc on his setup and see if I see things differently.

[Andy 5,006]

28 minutes ago, Jay said:

A friend of mine has a 117" screen in his basement with a 4K Projector.  I should re-watch this same disc on his setup and see if I see things differently.

That’s the ticket.  I know not everyone’s home can do a projector, but there’s nothing like it.  I have a 120”’screen with a 10year old Epson projector, so not even 4K… but it’s just an awesome experience.  And the 3D is almost better than in the theater. 
 

Perhaps when I upgrade to a true HDR 4K projector I will see a bigger difference.  But it won’t be soon. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

Andy wins by 3"!

[filmmusic 2,139]

48 minutes ago, Jay said:

On any TV under 65", it would be pointless to upgrade to 4K.

Well, I have a 43'' monitor where I watch my blu-rays/UHDs, and if I sit in front of the screen, I can see the difference.

But I guess in normal sitting position I won't. I don't know.

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

 

Is there a projector thread here? I recently bought Samsung The Freestyle, 0.8 kg of portable visual goodness. I can easily lay in my bed and watch films in my ceiling. Only in full HD, but that's all I need.

 

[Andy 5,006]

That’s really cool! Did you paint the ceiling with projector paint?  How large an image is it throwing?

 

Sort of a brilliant idea. 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

And discs that actually have Dolby Vision encoding, which hardly any do right now

 

Hmm Just a quick look at some titles in my collection and quite a few of them do. The Star Trek movies, Dragonslayer, Creepshow, Daughters of Darkness, Cemetery Man, and of course the Cameron films all have the Dolby Vision logo on them.  

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

12 minutes ago, Andy said:

That’s really cool! Did you paint the ceiling with projector paint?  How large an image is it throwing?

 

Sort of a brilliant idea. 

 

The Freestyle must be 79.5cm from the wall to project a 30" image and 260.4cm from the wall to project a 100" image.

 

I haven't tried projecting onto the ceiling yet, but I reckon it will be decent in the master bedroom where it's matte grey-white. And the projector compensates for non-white screens.

[Andy 5,006]

How cool!  That’s a nice short throw. I love it! 

 

JWFan Meet-Up Watch Party at @Jurassic Shark’s home. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,826]

Whoa, that's completely inaccurate. We've killed all our plants. 

[Jay 38,872]

1 hour ago, filmmusic said:

Well, I have a 43'' monitor where I watch my blu-rays/UHDs, and if I sit in front of the screen, I can see the difference.

But I guess in normal sitting position I won't. I don't know.

 

Yes if you're that close to it you're good. But in a standard living room setup investing in 4k discs to be played on a TV of that size would be pointless.

[filmmusic 2,139]

On 18/07/2024 at 4:07 AM, Andy said:

Weird!  Just the one scene? A mistake or a choice?

 

Personally I prioritize color accuracy over even detail or grain management. 

About that scene, because I was equally surprised to see it:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=18833&d2=16267&s1=223102&s2=174028&i=3&l=0

 

It seems it doesn't represent what people saw in the theaters back then, but it represents the vision of the director!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonthompson/2024/07/09/jan-de-bont-says-twisters-4k-remastering-is-the-definitive-version/

 

[Jay 38,872]

Yes, wasn't that shared here last week?

 

On 17/07/2024 at 9:13 PM, TSMefford said:

the sky gradually turns a much more noticeable green in keeping with the appearance of actual tornado conditions; yours truly hardly grew up in the Midwest, but even I have experienced a "greenout" or two firsthand and the effect is fairly accurately conveyed. De Bont admits in his retrospective interview that he was never able to get the exact color he wanted during post-production and seems tremendously happy with what they were able to achieve here.

 

[filmmusic 2,139]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yes, wasn't that shared here last week?

Haha! What's wrong with me today?

It seems I hadn't read that post..

[A24 4,514]

On 20/07/2024 at 3:30 PM, Andy said:

Yes and yes. 
 

I have the Panasonic DP-UB420

 

 

Not as sexy but gets the job mostly done. Mostly. 

 

I just discovered that the Panasonic DP-UB150 is about 179 Euro. I might consider that one. Still cheaper (and probably a little better) than a PS5 with disc. Oh, I see now it's 159 Euro at amazon.

 

[crocodile 8,372]

I am using DP-UB820EB from from Panasonic. The menu is bit awkward but performance-wise it is great. It's more around the £350 region.

 

Karol

[QuartalHarmony 643]

On 24/4/2024 at 11:24 PM, QuartalHarmony said:

At least other countries have the option of watching the 4K Abyss.

 

Its UK release has been cancelled due to the rat scene…

 

Where there’s a will, there’s a way: whilst on holiday in Spain, I managed to find a shop selling 4K discs (they do still exist, just about) and got a Spanish copy of The Abyss. It’s got the English soundtrack in Atmos, plus English subtitles, so I’m now very happy.

[Jay 38,872]

Wow James Cameron claims he saw every frame of the bullshit AI upscaling and approved it all.

 

So you’ve also had recently the 4K transfers of Aliens and True Lies that came out. It did get blowback in the fan community, some feeling that the image quality wasn’t as high as they wanted it to be. You obviously have a very high standard. So I’m wondering what you thought?

 

When people start reviewing your grain structure, they need to move out of mom’s basement and meet somebody. Right? I’m serious. I mean, are you fucking kidding me? I’ve got a great team that does the transfers. I do all the color and density work. I look at every shot, every frame, and then the final transfer is done by a guy who has been with me [for years]. All the Avatar films are done that way. Everything is done that way. Get a life, people, seriously.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/james-cameron-interview-avatar-3-alien-romulus-terminator-oceanxplorers-1235972175/amp/