Arpy 4,145 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 @Remco How could it be definitive? What sense is a collection of previously recorded material, played by other orchestras 'definitive'? As you say, you were forgiving of the mistakes when they were live, and the recordings made here were from those same performances. Joni Wiljami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Remco said: @Jay, I think the thread wouldn’t be so full of people discussing performance issues if we weren’t constantly told by others that they don’t exist or that we're crazy and should just accept it. You're crazy! Just accept it. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 17 hours ago, BB-8 said: I've experienced the VPO (horns) mess-up during Lohengrin incidental music. Simone Young was conducting, and you should have seen her reaction - one hand grasping her mouth while shaking her head in disbelieve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHJkno9yjRI At 1:42:25... I wonder which was bigger flaw : making a mistake (when hundreds of notes to play) or making theatrical gestures pointing that out? Think of that besserwisser. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Arpy said: @Remco How could it be definitive? What sense is a collection of previously recorded material, played by other orchestras 'definitive'? As you say, you were forgiving of the mistakes when they were live, and the recordings made here were from those same performances. It's completely reasonable to have different expectations/evaluation standards for the live concert experience that you hear in person once and gets only better in your memory, and for a released album that is going to be relistened multiple times and compared to the other shitloads of already existing recordings. Jurassic Shark and Remco 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 If those were your expectations then they were already set up to fail, and I'm not unsympathetic to Remco's and others' problems here I just don't see how the commercial release could be any different unless they rerecorded it all to flatten out the mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,474 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 6 hours ago, moi said: I wonder which was bigger flaw : making a mistake (when hundreds of notes to play) or making theatrical gestures pointing that out? Think of that besserwisser. I agree that conductors should never lose control over themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkOiKy6sXfM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Remco said: I think the thread wouldn’t be so full of people discussing performance issues if we weren’t constantly told by others that they don’t exist or that we’re crazy or that we should just accept it. Spot on. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Arpy said: @Remco How could it be definitive? What sense is a collection of previously recorded material, played by other orchestras 'definitive'? As you say, you were forgiving of the mistakes when they were live, and the recordings made here were from those same performances. Well we’re dealing here with an orchestra that has a higher reputation than any other that has recorded this kind of music – and they confirm that reputation in some of the performances here i.e. CEOTK which I consider superior to any other recording I know. It just saddens me that this level of excellence isn’t maintained on the whole album and especially since we’re never getting any new recording with JW and the Wiener/Berliner/Concertgebouw ever again. This was the chance to publish a legendary album, and they only got it 60/70% right in my opinion. And @Holko’s post explains my thinking as well. I loved the concert, but back in january I already posted that I was worried whether they would be able to stitch together a polished concert recording. Holko and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Remco said: And @Holko’s post explains my thinking as well. I loved the concert, but back in january I already posted that I was worried whether they would be able to stitch together a polished concert recording. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. The way I look at it (and listen to it) is that despite a few mistakes, you can still hear the prowess of the orchestra and still admire the fact that Williams was conducting it and seemed to enjoy the experience too. blondheim, Remco, Steve and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt S. 493 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Arpy said: Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. The way I look at it (and listen to it) is that despite a few mistakes, you can still hear the prowess of the orchestra and still admire the fact that Williams was conducting it and seemed to enjoy the experience too. I couldn't agree more. After all, music is about the experience. It's about emotion, and even with the mistakes, you can hear the energy and passion the orchestra has. A piece can be played flawlessly in terms of notes, pitch, tempo, etc, and still sound completely lifeless and dull. To paraphrase Mr. Holland, "Playing music is supposed to be fun. It's not about notes on a page." I get a lot of joy and fun from listening to this album. Steve, Biodome, Madmartigan JC and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pawel P. 738 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Remco said: It just saddens me that this level of excellence isn’t maintained on the whole album and especially since we’re never getting any new recording with JW and the Wiener/Berliner/Concertgebouw ever again. This was the chance to publish a legendary album, and they only got it 60/70% right in my opinion. 30 or 40 percent wrong? How wrong? What do you mean? The only thing you can stick to in the flub/misatke category is the several seconds of the Main Title from Star Wars, which doesn't sound so terrible to tell you the truth - the rest, such as the slightly slower pace of Out to the Sea and Shark Cage Fugue and The Raider's March are the question of Williams' subjective choice. Both Viennese concerts are legendary, despite the fact that they took place only six months ago, and the blu-ray is only a confirmation of this. I've been to both concerts and now I've seen it at home three times, I've also listened to the CD a couple of times. And I couldn't be happier. Gurkensalat, Biodome, crlbrg and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leitmotif 21 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 The concerts and the album are instant legendary. Legends are more than timing and tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 55 minutes ago, Pawel P. said: 30 or 40 percent wrong? How wrong? What do you mean? The only thing you can stick to in the flub/misatke category is the several seconds of the Main Title from Star Wars, which doesn't sound so terrible to tell you the truth - the rest, such as the slightly slower pace of Out to the Sea and Shark Cage Fugue and The Raider's March are the question of Williams' subjective choice. Both Viennese concerts are legendary, despite the fact that they took place only six months ago, and the blu-ray is only a confirmation of this. I've been to both concerts and now I've seen it at home three times, I've also listened to the CD a couple of times. And I couldn't be happier. Sorry I could have been more nuanced – I meant that I’ll skip about 30% of the album because I have a hard time enjoying the music due to the sloppiness at moments. I don’t want to sound entitled, but I’m a professional musician myself and this nitpicking is something that’s part of my daily job. So I can’t just forgive the VPO. I’m happy for all of you who can listen through it (maybe I can too at some point, once I get past my initial disappointment). Anyway, I’ll refrain from any more negativity on this thread since I know very well how annoying it can be. Madmartigan JC and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gurkensalat 340 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 After having finally watched the Blu-ray and listened to parts of the CD, I have some observations concerning the ongoing debate. - I attended the Sunday concert and it was one of the most intense and satisfying musical experiences of my life, including attending to hundreds of live concerts over more than 40 years. The sound produced by those musicians with their excellent, often exceptional instruments in this hall with its enveloping and still transparent acoustics was a marvel. I heard many details in the dense orchestration I have never noticed before on other recordings. - The Blu-ray captures this experience very well, especially the sound in the multichannel track which comes extremely close to the soundscape I have in memory from January. The strong reverb explains also partially the sometimes rather slow tempi. Play to fast in this hall with such a large orchestra, and you get a muddy sound. - The CD tries to capture that as well but fails. The mixing down to 2 channel is detrimental to the experience in this case, resulting in a muddy, but flat soundscape. There is a dramatic difference between the flawed stereo CD and the excellent 5.1 MC recording. - Listening to the CD I can understand some of the criticism here. Somehow the imprecisions seem to be more glaring here while been a bit "swept under the rug" in the MC mix, where you just go with the overwhelming sound of this orchestra and the concert hall, and don't care about some timing issues. - Additionally the imprecisions seem more obvious or annoying without the corresponding picture. Take the flutist in Jaws which is fighting valiantly to keep pace. With picture you live and suffer with him and are happy at the end that he managed to come through; without picture you just think he could have rehearsed a bit more - While the Vienna Philharmonic is undoubtedly one of the best orchestras in the world, they seem to have needed generally more rehearsal time for this. Even at the 2nd, the Sunday concert, many musicians rehearsed some difficult passages before the concert and in the break, obviously feeling a need to further improve. - About the imprecisions: One has to consider that tradition of the Vienna Philharmonic coming from the romantic German-Austrian repertoire and the long tradition of interpretations. One cornerstone is flexible tempos (Rubato), indicated by the conductor, to transport an emotional message. Part of this is the style of conducting which uses a downbeat a split second BEFORE the orchestra plays that beat. This is strange to many American composers and conductors (same happened to John Adams as composer in residence of the Berlin Philharmonic). The result of this tradition is a more organic and flowing, but less precise interpretation, a bit like an impressionist painting. I guess that Williams had to fight a bit against this habit, or so it seems looking at his face expression during parts of the concert. So it is not surprising that there are tempo fluctuations, some of which may be intended by Williams to honor the Vienna tradition, some perhaps not intended but resulting from this tradition. In the end I got the impression that Williams AND the orchestra tried to play this music like the Vienna would play Brahms or Tchaikovsky symphonies, but perhaps one or two more rehearsals would have been necessary to perfect this. - In the end this is a documentary of an exceptional (but not perfect) concert and a cherished souvenir for those who were able to attend it. - Footnote: The blu-ray defaults to the 2.0 stereo mix, one has to change the track to MC in the menu or with the colors on the remote. toothless, Madmartigan JC, Biodome and 8 others 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 @Remco I'm not calling for the end of critical discussion, far from it. I think nothing's quite perfect or as good as we expect them to be. My small grievance with this set is the sound is a little bassy and flat occasionally. I am envious of you and other members here for getting to witness this concert live with Williams there, an experience which trumps any recording. Sadly I will never see Williams in person. eitam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,474 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 31 minutes ago, Arpy said: @Remco I'm not calling for the end of critical discussion, far from it. I think nothing's quite perfect or as good as we expect them to be. My small grievance with this set is the sound is a little bassy and flat occasionally. I am envious of you and other members here for getting to witness this concert live with Williams there, an experience which trumps any recording. Sadly I will never see Williams in person. In the CD booklet Williams is quoted to have said that next time he comes to Vienna he wants to look at scores of Schumann, Bruckner and R. Strauss. So we can still hope that he may visit again...maybe for his 90th? Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I doubt I'd be able to travel to Vienna, let alone the US anytime soon to see him. I kind of accepted that a while ago. BB-8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 18 hours ago, bruce marshall said: 60fps is mostly responsible for the live look. That's not a reduced resolution. It decreases the noise to signal ratio. You get twice (slightly more) as many frames at half resolution, so you get the same (actually a slightly higher) number of lines altogether, but the difference in resolution in a single frame is still noticeable. 8 hours ago, moi said: On 8/19/2020 at 4:44 PM, BB-8 said: I've experienced the VPO (horns) mess-up during Lohengrin incidental music. Simone Young was conducting, and you should have seen her reaction - one hand grasping her mouth while shaking her head in disbelieve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHJkno9yjRI At 1:42:25... I wonder which was bigger flaw : making a mistake (when hundreds of notes to play) or making theatrical gestures pointing that out? Think of that besserwisser. To be fair, it's the State Opera, so most people won't see the conductor's face. Also to be fair, unless it was a premiere or high profile night, those probably weren't the A-list players of the VPO. Depending on what else they've got going on and (I suppose) how interested they are in the work, they less or more likely to send substitutes. And often more likely with Wagner, it seems. I've heard them do a Rheingold where not a single note in the last 5-10 minutes seemed right. And also to be fair, those horns are supposedly much harder to play than those used by most other orchestras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 2 hours ago, BB-8 said: In the CD booklet Williams is quoted to have said that next time he comes to Vienna he wants to look at scores of Schumann, Bruckner and R. Strauss. So we can still hope that he may visit again...maybe for his 90th? He'll probably have to pay for the privilege. I think Strauss is STILL in copyright!😞😠 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 And for the Bruckner scores, he should revisit the Nationalbibliothek, where the originals are kept per Bruckner's testamtent. Still, it certainly reads (if it's an accurate statement) as if he at least didn't explicitly rule out a return, unlikely though it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 He has to go back to conduct his new fanfare for the orchestra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Someone at Jwfan has started a petition asking DGG and VPO to redo the last two concerts with John Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Redo? Like recording it again, or redoing the album releases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias 267 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 2 hours ago, BB-8 said: In the CD booklet Williams is quoted to have said that next time he comes to Vienna he wants to look at scores of Schumann, Bruckner and R. Strauss. So we can still hope that he may visit again...maybe for his 90th? Well, the orchestra has commissioned him to write a new fanfare for the annual VPO ball, so I think it is quite likely that JW will attend the ball when it is premiered and maybe even conduct the opening (that's perhaps less likely, but who knows - Blomstedt conducted it this year and he's even older than Williams). But who knows when there will be balls again in Vienna... 44 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: Depending on what else they've got going on and (I suppose) how interested they are in the work, they less or more likely to send substitutes. And often more likely with Wagner, it seems. I've heard them do a Rheingold where not a single note in the last 5-10 minutes seemed right. And also to be fair, those horns are supposedly much harder to play than those used by most other orchestras. And I thought that after the overture there was only noise in Rheingold anyway! 😅 To be serious, I knew that the opera was getting the short end of the stick in the arrangement with the VPO, but I didn't know it could be this bad! 😳 I've mostly seen them in concert (somehow 5 times already in this crazy year) and I think I've always seen familiar faces pretty much everywhere except in the periphery of the string sections. Then again, the types of concerts that I like to attend typically don't feature a big Wagnerian brass section. Mistakes-wise, the JW concert was the worst I've heard them, though I don't think it was bad at all, especially since they really played inspired. My issues are usually with the interpretation instead, though cohesion can also be a problem - even in core repertoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Biodome 714 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Someone at Jwfan has started a petition asking DGG and VPO to redo the last two concerts with John Williams. That's a disgusting thing to do. I hope the petition doesn't mention JWFan, and doesn't try to represent the fans. rough cut, MaxTheHouseelf and Fabulin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Matthias said: To be serious, I knew that the opera was getting the short end of the... baton? Fixed! Matthias 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, Matthias said: And I thought that after the overture there was only noise in Rheingold anyway! 😅 20 minutes ago, Matthias said: To be serious, I knew that the opera was getting the short end of the stick in the arrangement with the VPO, but I didn't know it could be this bad! 😳 It varies a lot. And keep in mind they practically don't have rehearsals at the opera, except for new productions. Everything else is done as a repertoire performance, so if a substitute player gets hired, I assume they have to learn the whole thing on their own (if they don't know it already) and then simply play it - live and with all the complications of a stage production. Fabulin and Matthias 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fabulin 3,511 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, Matthias said: But who knows when there will be balls again in Vienna... The Last Crusade taught us that Austria can be effeminate, but this is a bit extreme, haha Matthias, Martinland and bigjimwilson 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias 267 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: It varies a lot. And keep in mind they practically don't have rehearsals at the opera, except for new productions. Everything else is done as a repertoire performance, so if a substitute player gets hired, I assume they have to learn the whole thing on their own (if they don't know it already) and then simply play it - live and with all the complications of a stage production. Yeah, you're right, the lack of rehearsals makes the idea of throwing substitutes in there without a strong core of Philharmoniker sound even crazier! 3 minutes ago, Fabulin said: The Last Crusade taught us that Austria can be effeminate, but this is a bit extreme, haha You're right, we can't let Covid take our balls away! 😬 Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Has anyone figured out which shots are from the saturday performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Remco said: Has anyone figured out which shots are from the saturday performance? Only the 1st Williams speech. You can see he changes from blue tie to grey tie within minutes. Blue tie is from sunday. That includes all perfromances (at least visually). Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Redo? Like recording it again, or redoing the album releases? Uhmmmmm.... You obviously missed THE GOT allusion! You of all peeps!😅 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Redo? Like recording it again, or redoing the album releases? Like redoing the last season of GOT. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Thas belongs in the not funny thread, Bryce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Thas belongs in the not funny thread, Bryce. Oh c'mon! It is funny. You're just embarrassed you fell for it. 😁 32 minutes ago, Steve said: Only the 1st Williams speech. You can see he changes from blue tie to grey tie within minutes. Blue tie is from sunday. That includes all perfromances (at least visually). Fire the continuity person! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastoEls 562 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Remco said: Has anyone figured out which shots are from the saturday performance? Some audience shots also. Unless I’m sitting on the both the floor and the balcony in the same concert! 🥰 Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMOcl 14 Posted August 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2020 I think most of the flaws are kinda common in classical music recordings and particularly de Wiener Philharmoniker, IMHO comparing the soundtrack recordings with a LIVE non film concert is just useless. The magic in this album is capturing the new interpretation John does of his own compositions. A perfect example of this is the CE3K piece, which sounds more like a Edgar Varese composition in the beginning that the classic John Williams style (SW, HP). I agree with the idea that they wanted to play this music as if this was a Tchaikovsky Concert and they really achieved that. I mean the strings are just marvelous, the brass is sometimes better than the LSO and the percussion is top. This is what John always (anoyingly repeatedly) says, "the music without the distraction of the film". Of course we know this music comes from movies, but in this performance by the WPO i think we must understand it as programmatic music (an aproach to hearing Beethoven's 6th or Wagner Concert Arrangements). About the gestures and faces the maestro did when the orchestra clearly didn´t sound as he wanted reminded me of Carlos Kleiber and it also made me notice that when he really enjoyed the playing he really showed it. Just as Kleiber, John Williams in this point of his career does not just conduct an orchestra, he is in ther performance, feeling the performance and have a critical view of it. Of course they could have had more rehearsal, but if this was just a two days tryout i think is a complete success. It would be interesting if they had filmed the rehearsal sessions, maybe there is a recording. it would be historical material. After the end of the concert and the album the two thoughts that kept swinging in my mind where: 1-This is how Carlos Kleiber would have played John Williams, and 2- John should really make a recording of the Beethoevn Cycle with th WPO. MaxTheHouseelf, Tydirium and Gurkensalat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 340 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Steve said: Only the 1st Williams speech. You can see he changes from blue tie to grey tie within minutes. Blue tie is from sunday. That includes all perfromances (at least visually). Also the speech before Tintin with Mutter where she demonstrates the sword movements on the violin. It was missing on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Just now, Gurkensalat said: Also the speech before Tintin with Mutter where she demonstrates the sword movements on the violin. It was missing on Sunday. Yes, true. This can also be seen on the Blue-ray Cover. And Williams wore cuff buttons on saturday which he didn't do on sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam0001 6 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Hi Folks, Hope you’re well. Does anyone know if/how I can watch the concert online? I don’t have Blu-Ray device and it would be great to re-live the concert somehow. Thanks for everyone’s contributions (I follow the forums closely but generally scroll rather than post). Regards! Liam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12-Mile Reef 123 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 You can watch it as a 'visual album' on Apple Music/iTunes. I would have much preferred them to release it as a straightforward release in the movies section as other concerts have been though. tmarps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpvee 805 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Is the limited edition vinyl still available anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biodome 714 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 27 minutes ago, rpvee said: Is the limited edition vinyl still available anywhere? A link was posted earlier in this thread to a Japanese shop, where it was still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, liam0001 said: Hi Folks, Hope you’re well. Does anyone know if/how I can watch the concert online? I don’t have Blu-Ray device and it would be great to re-live the concert somehow. Thanks for everyone’s contributions (I follow the forums closely but generally scroll rather than post). Regards! Liam. You can buy it digitally on Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/john-williams-live-in-vienna-visual-album/1513603217 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,474 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 16 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: And for the Bruckner scores, he should revisit the Nationalbibliothek, where the originals are kept per Bruckner's testamtent. Still, it certainly reads (if it's an accurate statement) as if he at least didn't explicitly rule out a return, unlikely though it is. Showing qualities of an Austro-German Kapellmeister, John Williams could return to conduct VPO repertoire like Zarathustra or Bruckner 6. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Mahler 6 is more fun! blondheim and BB-8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB-8 3,474 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 The Japanese Ltd Deluxe Edition shines in embossed pure gold. And the sound of the green UHQCD is superior. Remco and Amer 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpvee 805 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 9 hours ago, BB-8 said: The Japanese Ltd Deluxe Edition shines in embossed pure gold. And the sound of the green UHQCD is superior. How’d you order it? The site is in Japanese, and needs a Japanese address to register to buy anything. Also, what number did ya get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,418 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Wooooooow. 'Marion's Theme' almost steals the show for me on this! So good. @Jurassic Shark Any flutes that I should be aware of on this one? Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,072 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Bellosh said: Wooooooow. 'Marion's Theme' almost steals the show for me on this! So good. @Jurassic Shark Any flutes that I should be aware of on this one? Just turn the treble down to minimum on your amp. Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lairdo 726 Posted August 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 24, 2020 On 8/21/2020 at 3:08 AM, TownerFan said: You can buy it digitally on Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/john-williams-live-in-vienna-visual-album/1513603217 That does not show up for me on the Apple Music US Store. I can follow the link and see it, but when I add it to my library, it does not play. Odd. On 8/20/2020 at 8:18 AM, Gurkensalat said: After having finally watched the Blu-ray and listened to parts of the CD, I have some observations concerning the ongoing debate. - Footnote: The blu-ray defaults to the 2.0 stereo mix, one has to change the track to MC in the menu or with the colors on the remote. Thanks for your notes. I was not at the concerts, so I was seeing the performance for the first time. I watched about a quarter of it today (my deluxe edition arrived yesterday from Presto Music). A few additional thoughts on the video and my playback set up. I'm watching on an Oppo 4K Blu-Ray, connected through a Denon receiver with Dolby Atmos. LG 4K (2019 model) for the video playback. The LG is doing the upsampling from 1080i. B&W 600 series speakers. I dislike the smoothing of modern TVs, so I have that turned off. The result is the filmic quality described earlier in this thread. You can definitely spot the results of this when you see the printed music in shots. Some stuff is easy to read, but other details are garbled by the 1080i and then further conversion. This does not take away from the concert or music - just an observation. Despite having the 4k version, I doubt there is enough market for a 4k disc release. Generally, I found the editing decent. They save the wide shot for big moments, and mostly follow along the key instruments (where they had cameras) or on JW or ASM (when she is playing). Like most concert films, I actually find this annoying at times because visually, we will be right on the harp strings (this is the most egregious close up), but of course the harp is not blasting out - the mix remains a neutral seat location. So, you eyes and ears do not match. This is not specific to this recording; you experience it in other concert recordings and if the mix changed, the music would severely suffer. It's less jarring to see the violins or French horns up close when they play because they cut through so much of the mix anyway. When the image is on Williams, you can also get distracted by audience members who are themselves distracted. I wish the crew had kept the light levels on the audience a bit lower. (There is one girl who looks interested, then bored, then seems to have fallen asleep on her father's lap.) Where I was very pleasantly surprised is how much I like the Atmos mix. There were some earlier posts in this thread speculating about that, but I have to say that it really is nice. Not being at the concert, I cannot try to compare the live sound. However, for my set up (which I think I have pretty dialed in), the surrounds and ceiling speakers felt right. Good amount of reverb and ambience behind me and nice wide sound field in the LCR speakers. The LFE is not overly aggressive. My wife thought it sounded better than what we heard in Tanglewood last July. (Of course, that is not really a fair comparison given the differences in the venues and orchestras.) I was also happy to discover the CD tracks as Blu-Ray audio only. I did not expect or process those were on the release. They show as the same resolution that the downloadable HD Audio is (96/24). I do think the performances are the same as the video, with the audience noise edited out. (I actually wish they had left the final applause in the CD release as you sometimes hear on other live recordings.) Sound settings seemed to allow me to select 2.0, 5.1 or Atmos mixes for both the video and audio-only tracks. I believe this is the second JW conducted 5.1 or higher mix ever released, right? There is a SACD of Close Encounters, but I think that is a remix not a return to the original tapes. Same with Schindler's List. There is the Dallas Winds JW album on SACD, but JW did not conduct that. Earthquake was released in a 4-channel format on LP, but again, I am guessing that was created from pieces. The only one i can think of is Yo-Yo Ma and JW which Sony released in a SACD-only version (2.0 and 5.0 audio) separate from the CD. In any case, I really like the JW in Vienna multichannel mix, and I would love a SACD release too. So, from a technical perspective, I like the deluxe edition quite a lot, particularly in the audio region. I'm glad to have the record of the concert on video as well. I have the MQA CD on order too and will see how that sounds. (That will be 2.0 though.) As for the album/performance itself, which clearly has sparked some very polarizing views, I enjoy it a lot. I have done a number of runs to the music, and it works great in that setting (obviously, not the best acoustic experience that way). I've listened on my 2.1 set up at my computer, and that has been great. The Star Wars main title issue bothers me because it is pretty obvious. I heard the ET issue, but that feels wrong based on memory vs. on what is being played. I like Rebellion is Reborn in this format for the reasons of hearing the instrumentation. Raiders is enjoyable mostly because ASM is enjoying it (but I think David Newman was much faster in tempo with her in Munich last September on the same piece). I would rank this higher than the Dudamel, but perhaps not as high as the Spielberg/Williams 3. I think its on par with the Lockhart but that is so hard to compare because Lockhart focused on lesser played tracks. I'm so glad he did, because it's great to have those recorded. Addendum: It still gives me a thrill to see John Williams on the gold label. And he did genuinely look pleased to be able to play with the Vienna Philharmonic. GlastoEls, Pawel P., blondheim and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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