Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Yes, but did you know the Philharmoniker use "a variety of classical instruments"? That explains the flubs and timing issues! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 Flubs in your moronic head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, theBT said: Flubs in your moronic head. You're a professional musician, and you can't hear the flubs? That says more about you than about me, mate. Holko, Chewy, Martinland and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: You're a professional musician, and you can't hear the flubs? That says more about you than about me, mate. Even though trolling is your main aim, please give it a rest. Everyone knows by now how poor the VPO is and how much you dislike the Vienna concert. Go listen to your world class norwegian orchestras and stop the trolling in this topic. There are people who enjoy the Blueray. Jurassic Shark, Chewy and Joni Wiljami 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,525 Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 Enjoying it is not the same as flat out denying the flubs exist and not accepting it can bother some more than others. bollemanneke, Jurassic Shark, Chewy and 2 others 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Holko said: Enjoying it is not the same as flat out denying the flubs exist and not accepting it can bother some more than others. Who is denying anything? Nothing is perfect. 99.9% of the concert is performed correctly. If these few mistakes brother you that much you must be a perfect orchestra player. It's a live performance and yes, players do make mistakes sometimes. Maybe listen to midi performances instead? I'm sure they are perfect. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,525 Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Steve said: Who is denying anything? Hornist? Chewy, Jurassic Shark and Remco 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 As I've said before, I don't blame the VPO for the serious mistakes (looking at you, Jaws track), which are bad even for a live performance. Those to blame are the powers that didn't provide a sufficient amount of rehearsal time, and the DG producers who couldn't patch up anything better from two live recordings and a patch-up session. Holko, Chewy, Remco and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biodome 714 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 21 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Yes, but did you know the Philharmoniker use "a variety of classical instruments"? Oh wow, I thought that the players were just for show, and that the actual music came from a DAW somewhere in the back of the hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: As I've said before, I don't blame the VPO for the engraving mistakes (looking at you, Jaws track), which are bad even for a live performance. Those to blame are the powers that didn't provide a sufficient amount of rehearsal time, and the DG producers who couldn't patch up anything better from two live recordings and a patch-up session. My feelings exactly. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, Biodome said: Oh wow, I thought that the players were just for show, and that the actual music came from a DAW somewhere in the back of the hall They added the flubs for extra authenticity. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 God, are you guys still discussing this mediocre album? Leitmotif and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Those to blame are the powers that didn't provide a sufficient amount of rehearsal time You mean Williams? 15 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: God, are you guys still discussing this mediocre album? Should we be discussing the lesser Dudamel album instead? Biodome and MaxTheHouseelf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 yes, or the brilliant LSO concert or Boston Pops albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 34 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: You mean Williams? He surely had the time, but DG rather wanted him to spend time doing promotional material strolling around in Vienna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Should we be discussing the lesser Dudamel album instead? LA Phil vs. VPO album: Consistently good playing: LA Phil Acoustics: VPO Conducting: tie Being-present-at-concert bias: VPO bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 It's getting really boring here. LA Phil Album was patched together. The VPO not, only few corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 10 hours ago, Holko said: Hornist? Ignored (by Steve). bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: He surely had the time, but DG rather wanted him to spend time doing promotional material strolling around in Vienna. No, he actually had more rehearsal time but cut the rehearsals short because he said the Philharmoniker are already playing perfectly. I suspect that perhaps he's so used to conducting "film" orchestras (like many American orchestras and the LSO), who are highly trained sight readers, that he neglected that the Wiener weren't used to that sort of thing and need (and I suppose expect) a couple of rehearsals for unfamiliar pieces just to get used to them and not get nervous during the concert. 7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Most consistently good playing: LA Phil Conducting: tie Pacing: All over the place in LA, and I haven't been able to work out whether it's Dudamel or the performers or both. I'd rather have the Philharmoniker's couple of spots of wonkiness than the LA Phil's consistent feeling of arrhythmia. blondheim and Miguel Andrade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Steve said: The VPO not, only few corrections. That's exactly the problem with that album. 4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: I'd rather have the Philharmoniker's couple of spots of wonkiness than the LA Phil's consistent feeling of arrhythmia. Don't forget the VPO Jaws performance being on the verge of falling apart. 4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: No, he actually had more rehearsal time but cut the rehearsals short because he said the Philharmoniker are already playing perfectly. JW is such a perfectionist that I'm not buying that explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: That's exactly the problem with that album You are yet to name examples besides two seconds (trumpets coming in too late) in "SW main title" and the "Out to the sea" flute solo and a minor timing thing. But it's ok - you don't have to like it I'm sure 99.9% enjoy the Blueray/concert. Btw. I also like the Dudamel CD. But it's obvious they edited many parts. I've heard two uncut LA Phily concerts with Williams music and there are many flubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 49 minutes ago, Steve said: minor timing thing You need to calibrate your scale. 52 minutes ago, Steve said: You are yet to name examples besides two seconds (trumpets coming in too late) in "SW main title" and the "Out to the sea" flute solo and a minor timing thing. I have, but you keep ignoring all posts that don't suit your denialist narrative. Holko, Remco and bollemanneke 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biodome 714 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: You need to calibrate your scale. I have, but you keep ignoring all posts that don't suit your denialist narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Thanks for proving my point. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Don't forget the VPO Jaws performance being on the verge of falling apart. I hear the brief sync problems in Hook and Star Wars, and a wrong chord in E.T. and I think Jurassic Park. I've never had a big issue with Jaws. 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: JW is such a perfectionist that I'm not buying that explanation. Then what would be your explanation? Because Williams *did* cut the rehearsals short saying that they're already playing perfectly. They would have had more time scheduled and he decided that they didn't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: Then what would be your explanation? Because Williams *did* cut the rehearsals short saying that they're already playing perfectly. They would have had more time scheduled and he decided that they didn't need it. I don't have the correct explanation hidden under my bed, but the phrase sounds like typical PR fluff that puts everyone in a good light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I don't have the correct explanation hidden under my bed, but the phrase sounds like typical PR fluff that puts everyone in a good light. It's a fact. I've heard it reported from someone I know who was allowed to attend the rehearsals, even before the concerts took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: It's a fact. I've heard it reported from someone I know who was allowed to attend the rehearsals, even before the concerts took place. I don't doubt they were served that explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I don't doubt they were served that explanation. You mean Williams went through the pieces with the orchestra and then told them they're perfect already and can cut the current rehearsal short because he thought they're lousy but DG told him to go sightseeing instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: You mean Williams went through the pieces with the orchestra and then told them they're perfect already and can cut the current rehearsal short because he thought they're lousy but DG told him to go sightseeing instead? Not at all. But we know JW isn't keen on talking about his health issues, and I'm sure he'd give them the benefit of the doubt if the rehearsal sessions had to be limited due to his health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Not at all. But we know JW isn't keen on talking about his health issues, and I'm sure he'd give them the benefit of the doubt if the rehearsal sessions had to be limited due to his health. He seemed in fine health, i.e. I'd be surprised if he thought he had to be more careful than he had planned. And if he knew that he wouldn't be up to the full rehearsals that were required, he could have arranged for an assistant conductor - like Brossé, who in 2018 conducted the initial LSO rehearsals even before Williams became ill. I'd say it was a simple miscalculation on Williams' part. With an orchestra that probably more than most usually focuses on repertoire (which they know in their sleep) and rarely performs entirely new stuff. Miguel Andrade, Jurassic Shark and Gurkensalat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Thanks for proving my point. Stop the trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 At many moments the ensemble playing is remarkably poor for an orchestra of this stature even though you can still hear this is an orchestra consisting of great players. I blame lack of familiarity with the material and this could’ve happened with any other world-class orchestra as well, BUT when you’re planning a DG release the people in power should have planned things better, maybe have another conductor work on it beforehand, doing more patch-up sessions or whatever. Jurassic Shark and Joni Wiljami 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 Exactly. 2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: He seemed in fine health, i.e. I'd be surprised if he thought he had to be more careful than he had planned. And if he knew that he wouldn't be up to the full rehearsals that were required, he could have arranged for an assistant conductor - like Brossé, who in 2018 conducted the initial LSO rehearsals even before Williams became ill. I'd say it was a simple miscalculation on Williams' part. With an orchestra that probably more than most usually focuses on repertoire (which they know in their sleep) and rarely performs entirely new stuff. JW is an experienced conductor, and practicing his pieces for the first time with various orchestras is something he's done a lot in the past. However, being close to ninety, being in good form one day doesn't mean he's in good form all days. Frankly, I think he looked somewhat reduced at the concert - I doubt I'm the only one with that Impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Frankly, I think he looked somewhat reduced at the concert - I doubt I'm the only one with that Impression. Not my impression at least. He was clearly exhausted by the end of each concert, but that's no surprise, and not excessively so. Gurkensalat and Miguel Andrade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 15 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Not at all. But we know JW isn't keen on talking about his health issues, and I'm sure he'd give them the benefit of the doubt if the rehearsal sessions had to be limited due to his health. You’re just being pedantic, please. It’s absolutely fine disliking the recording and saying why (which you already did a million times!), but trying to convince others who enjoy and find good things in it with such absurd conspiracy theories is pathetic. Give it a rest. Steve, 12-Mile Reef, Joni Wiljami and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, TownerFan said: You’re just being pedantic, please. It’s absolutely fine disliking the recording and saying why (which you already did a million times!), but trying to convince others who enjoy and find good things in it with such absurd conspiracy theories is pathetic. Give it a rest. I don't expect you to acknowledge any negative aspects of a JW recording, but please don't try to silence others who aren't afraid of acknowledging both the good and the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 I too have things that I like or dislike, it’s human. Expressing evaluation on something isn’t an act of courage, sorry. The fact you acknowledge any negative things doesn’t make you look smarter or more intelligent than others. Plus, I’m not silencing anyone, as this isn’t my place to begin with, but simply stating fatigue by reading your posts. I don’t see the point of beating up the argument with such pedantic attitude like you continue to do here. But don’t worry, I’m the one who’s out of place here, so I’ll slip away as usual. Have a nice day! Gurkensalat, 12-Mile Reef, Miguel Andrade and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, TownerFan said: I too have things that I like or dislike, it’s human. Still, you never express those dislikes when it comes to JW. 9 minutes ago, TownerFan said: Expressing evaluation on something isn’t an act of courage, sorry. Not expressing evaluation is even less courageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 People should be allowed to have an opinion and like what they like - or don’t like what they don’t like - but at some point you have to “read the room” and make peace with that you have made your point. In any argument, you can’t keep beating the same old drum as a reflex response to each and every different opinion, in this case “Did you notice the flubs? Did you notice the flubs? Did you notice the flubs?” Yes, we did, man. Let it go. Gurkensalat and Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, TownerFan said: The fact you acknowledge any negative things doesn’t make you look smarter or more intelligent than others. Of course not, but it makes for a more interesting discussion. Who wants to read a review that focuses only on the good or the bad? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Still, you never express those dislikes when it comes to JW. Not expressing evaluation is even less courageous. You’re free to think whatever you want about me, no problem. I just don’t feel the urge of expressing my opinion on anything related to JW on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rough cut 1,714 Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 On another note, I was visiting Spain over the holidays and guess what was on national TV (channel “La 2”) on Christmas Day... John Williams In Vienna! (Photo from my hotel room 😊) crlbrg, Biodome and Steve 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, TownerFan said: You’re free to think whatever you want about me, no problem. I just don’t feel the urge of expressing my opinion on anything related to JW on this board. Well, it's a discussion forum, so don't be surprised when people actually discuss here. 2 hours ago, TownerFan said: Plus, I’m not silencing anyone, as this isn’t my place to begin with, but simply stating fatigue by reading your posts. Some people are tired of the Emperor's-new-clothes mentally pervading this thread. 2 hours ago, TownerFan said: But don’t worry, I’m the one who’s out of place here, so I’ll slip away as usual. Not at all. I'd welcome more nuanced remarks from you, especially about music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bollemanneke 3,342 Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 21 hours ago, Steve said: It's getting really boring here. LA Phil Album was patched together. The VPO not, only few corrections. Patched together? You... you can't be serious. Please tell me you're not being serious. Why are people determined to love this performances just because JW happened to be conducting it and because history and blah blah blah? Mutter is the only one who consistently shines throughout the concert. Star Wars main titles are a complete disaster, the shark cage fugue sounds like a hesitant stroll at best... Dudamel's performances are energetic and full of life. Yes, the percussion is mixed too loudly, but that's not his fault. If the VPO was as good as people are told to believe, this album would have been out of this world. And it is, for all the wrong reasons. Gurkensalat, Remco, Jurassic Shark and 2 others 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted December 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 27, 2020 5 hours ago, rough cut said: People should be allowed to have an opinion and like what they like - or don’t like what they don’t like - but at some point you have to “read the room” and make peace with that you have made your point. THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. There are many members of this forum who should read and heed this advice. MaxTheHouseelf, Biodome, rough cut and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 591 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 4 hours ago, bollemanneke said: Patched together? You... you can't be serious. Please tell me you're not being serious. What is your problem with my statement? It's a fact. You can ask DG if you don't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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