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John Williams & the Vienna Philharmonic: January 18/19 2020


Ricard

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13 hours ago, rough cut said:

On another note, I was visiting Spain over the holidays and guess what was on national TV (channel “La 2”) on Christmas Day...

 

John Williams In Vienna!

 

(Photo from my hotel room 😊)

 

7A142521-1BA2-4CCF-8A3F-B16A45D3FC10.jpeg

 

It was also on tonight on Portuguese TV :)

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22 hours ago, rough cut said:

People should be allowed to have an opinion and like what they like - or don’t like what they don’t like - but at some point you have to “read the room” and make peace with that you have made your point.

 

Yup, and that goes both ways.

 

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On 12/26/2020 at 8:43 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Not at all. But we know JW isn't keen on talking about his health issues, and I'm sure he'd give them the benefit of the doubt if the rehearsal sessions had to be limited due to his health.

This absolutely is just conspiracy theory stuff, mate.

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On 12/27/2020 at 1:10 PM, rough cut said:

On another note, I was visiting Spain over the holidays and guess what was on national TV (channel “La 2”) on Christmas Day...

 

John Williams In Vienna!

 

(Photo from my hotel room 😊)

 

7A142521-1BA2-4CCF-8A3F-B16A45D3FC10.jpeg

 

Hi all, you have available the "La 2" concert of John williams in Vienna until Januray, 24, 2021:

 

Los conciertos de la 2: Orquesta Filarmónica de Viena: Especial John Williams

 

Only 1 hour 28 min, I don't know why.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I'm sorry, I'm not accepting this. You seem intent on interpreting everything I write in the most offensive way possible. But, as you state yourself, you only come here to read opinions that are similar to your own. I'll never understand such narrow minded attitude.

 

When I wrote about JW's health, that was based on my reaction when I first watched footage from the VPO concerts, and I've since been wondering whether possible health issues affected the concert. I could probably have elaborated better my thoughts about this. I though he looked somewhat reduced, and not entirely up to the task. He also looked confused now and then, and I wager I'm not the only one who's made that observation. Do I write this because I like that one of my heroes is in decline? Of course not. However, not writing about difficult things does not make them go away. And it's not like I've been spamming this thread with my observations about his health. It's limited to a few posts, and I think I made it clear I was expressing a subjective opinion. Dismissing this as a conspiracy theory is the worst kind of suppression techniques.


Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t come here only to read opinions that align to mine—I said that I don’t engage in discussion if there are already other people expressing opinions like mine much better than me. I’m not offended by what your write, I’m just annoyed at how pedantic you’re being to present it.
 

I happen to like a lot the Vienna recordings for many reasons. I think your arguments are just nitpicking and I don’t agree with many of those, like other people already said well. But I understand that we’re talking about choices of interpretation, so it’s wildly subjective. I’m not here to suppress anything, of course you’re free to write whatever for as long as you want. But don’t bring your own wild speculation about JW’s health to add some kind of objective point to the fact you simply don’t like the recording, or the playing, or how JW chose to address tempi, or things like those—he was in unbelievably good shape, spry and joyful for a guy almost in his 90s. 

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19 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

Don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t come here only to read opinions that align to mine—I said that I don’t engage in discussion if there are already other people expressing opinions like mine much better than me. 

 

Then I misunderstood you and I'm sorry for that.

 

 

19 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

I happen to like a lot the Vienna recordings for many reasons. I think your arguments are just nitpicking and I don’t agree with many of those. But I understand that we’re talking about choices of interpretation, so it’s wildly subjective. I’m not here to suppress anything, of course you’re free to write whatever for as long as you want. 

 

I obviously don't think I'm nitpicking. For some, flubs, timing issues and tempo fluctuations stand out quite badly when listening to the music. I hope you can understand that.

 

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13 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

But don’t bring your own wild speculation about JW’s health to add some kind of objective point to the fact you simply don’t like the recording, or the playing, or how JW chose to address tempi, or things like those—he was in unbelievably good shape, spry and joyful for a guy almost in his 90s. 

 

I'm sorry, but playing JW's PR agent doesn't make you morally superior. I made it clear that my comments about his health were my own subjective theories. I don't at all share your assessment of how well JW appeared, based on the blu-ray. 

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7 minutes ago, Jay said:

"disturbing"? Really?

 

Bad choice of word (direct translation from Norwegian).

 

3 minutes ago, SteveMc said:

I think a lot of y'all are being way too emotional about this.  

 

I can't speak for the others, but I'm feeling quite calm and confident in my subjective views.

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Just now, TownerFan said:

Let’s not pretend to find any kind of objective definitive statement about this.

 

That's never been my aim either; you're the one who's been talking about objectivity. It's all a discussion where different people present their own opinions and interpretations, nothing more. But I have to say I find it strange that you pretend to have the knowledge of his personal doctor when it comes to his health.

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4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That's never been my aim either; you're the one who's been talking about objectivity. It's all a discussion where different people present their own opinions and interpretations, nothing more. But I have to say I find it strange that you pretend to have the knowledge of his personal doctor when it comes to his health.

 
Yet you’re the one who continues to abhor any dissenting opinion, to the point where you said that people who attended the concert of course are just biased in their opinion. Discussing with you is as impossible as discussing with Thor; for people

like you the point always becomes stating your own opinions over and over, and over, and over. It always comes to the point where the interlocutor is forced to say “Yeah, whatever”
 

JW was in good shape as anyone who attended the concert and/or met him afterwards can testify.

 

Anyway, I won’t continue in this discussion further, as it’s clear I’m already risking to become as pedantic as you.

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19 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Anyway, I won’t continue in this discussion further, as it’s clear I’m already risking to become as pedantic as you.

 

No worries, you've proven you're the worthy winner of that contest. Just remember it's a discussion board, with subjective opinions. Nobody's pretending to hold the absolute truth, except you, that is.

 

19 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Discussing with you is as impossible as discussing with Thor; for people

like you the point always becomes stating your own opinions over and over, and over, and over. 

 

When you're intent on misinterpreting everything I write, don't be surprised that I elaborate on my points. Of course, you ignore the fact that I'm far from the only one who's been repeating some opinions in this thread, because you agree with them.

 

19 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Yet you’re the one who continues to abhor any dissenting opinion,

 

In that case you're not being any better.

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17 hours ago, Chewy said:

Going on another topic, what does everyone think of the performance of the Star Wars Main Titles?

 

I'm not that much bothered by the flub in that track. My main issue is with the Jaws track, which I find near unlistenable.

 

16 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'm rather sure it could be fixed by editing in the Saturday performance

 

It's decisions such as not doing an edit here that I find strange with this release.

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19 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's decisions such as not doing an edit here that I find strange with this release.

 

We know. You've only said it in every other of your posts on this topic.

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On 12/26/2020 at 8:07 AM, Steve said:

Even though trolling is your main aim, please give it a rest. Everyone knows by now how poor the VPO is and how much you dislike the Vienna concert. Go listen to your world class norwegian orchestras and stop the trolling in this topic. There are people who enjoy the Blueray.

Probably the best post ever here!! 💪💪💪

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19 hours ago, The Big Man said:

But I use Duck Duck Go.

 

I had to Google what that was.  

 

It felt like rain on your wedding day, or meeting someone's beautiful wife!

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21 minutes ago, Remco said:

I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) have to do with standards of orchestral playing to which there is a certain degree of objectivity, especially with an orchestra of this level. Some others here are flat-out denying this, or claiming that just because it doesn’t matter to *them* and the album broke all kinds of records it doesn’t matter *at all*. 

That also keeps the discussion going in circles.


But frankly, I think it does matter IF you also want to see this album as a vehicle for raising the reputation of film music in the classical music world and all of that. 

 

As a wise man once said, some fans just want a forum to promote the composer's work, while others find critical appreciation far more interesting. Let's hope this can be a forum for both parties.

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16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps)

 

You're repeating yourself there. ;)

 

When some of the other posters repeatedly flat out deny the existence of any imperfections (*cough* Steve), and persistently distort my opinions, it's only natural that I try to explain my points in different ways, hoping it will get through at some point.

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45 minutes ago, Remco said:

I agree totally that opinions don’t have to be repeated infinitely, but I think what’s bothersome in this particular case is that the issues that @Jurassic Shark highlights (albeit a bit too often perhaps) have to do with standards of orchestral playing to which there is a certain degree of objectivity, especially with an orchestra of this level. Some others here are flat-out denying this, or claiming that just because it doesn’t matter to *them* and the album broke all kinds of records it doesn’t matter *at all*. 

That also keeps the discussion going in circles.


But frankly, I think it does matter IF you also want to see this album as a vehicle for raising the reputation of film music in the classical music world and all of that. 

I don't really think this album will elevate, or would have elevated, film music in the classical world (had it been better). I've heard a lot of ignorant opinions coming from that world about JW and those folks aren't going to change their minds just because the VPO released this album. The first thing that needs to happen to make those people pay attention to JW's art is the death of John Williams. For some reason only dead people can become great composers. Then you have to give it another 200 years. Then we'll talk again.

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