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John Williams & the Vienna Philharmonic: January 18/19 2020


Ricard

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7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

You're a professional musician, and you can't hear the flubs? That says more about you than about me, mate.

Even though trolling is your main aim, please give it a rest. Everyone knows by now how poor the VPO is and how much you dislike the Vienna concert. Go listen to your world class norwegian orchestras and stop the trolling in this topic. There are people who enjoy the Blueray.

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1 minute ago, Holko said:

Enjoying it is not the same as flat out denying the flubs exist and not accepting it can bother some more than others.

Who is denying anything? Nothing is perfect. 99.9% of the concert is performed correctly. If these few mistakes brother you that much you must be a perfect orchestra player. It's a live performance and yes, players do make mistakes sometimes. Maybe listen to midi performances instead? I'm sure they are perfect.

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21 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Yes, but did you know the Philharmoniker use "a variety of classical instruments"?


Oh wow, I thought that the players were just for show, and that the actual music came from a DAW somewhere in the back of the hall

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4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

As I've said before, I don't blame the VPO for the engraving mistakes (looking at you, Jaws track), which are bad even for a live performance. Those to blame are the powers that didn't provide a sufficient amount of rehearsal time, and the DG producers who couldn't patch up anything better from two live recordings and a patch-up session.


My feelings exactly.

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5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Those to blame are the powers that didn't provide a sufficient amount of rehearsal time

 

You mean Williams?

 

15 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

God, are you guys still discussing this mediocre album?

 

Should we be discussing the lesser Dudamel album instead?

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2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Should we be discussing the lesser Dudamel album instead?

 

LA Phil vs. VPO album: 

 

Consistently good playing: LA Phil

Acoustics: VPO

Conducting: tie

Being-present-at-concert bias: VPO

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

He surely had the time, but DG rather wanted him to spend time doing promotional material strolling around in Vienna.

 

No, he actually had more rehearsal time but cut the rehearsals short because he said the Philharmoniker are already playing perfectly.

 

I suspect that perhaps he's so used to conducting "film" orchestras (like many American orchestras and the LSO), who are highly trained sight readers, that he neglected that the Wiener weren't used to that sort of thing and need (and I suppose expect) a couple of rehearsals for unfamiliar pieces just to get used to them and not get nervous during the concert.

 

7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Most consistently good playing: LA Phil

Conducting: tie

 

Pacing: All over the place in LA, and I haven't been able to work out whether it's Dudamel or the performers or both. I'd rather have the Philharmoniker's couple of spots of wonkiness than the LA Phil's consistent feeling of arrhythmia.

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8 minutes ago, Steve said:

The VPO not, only few corrections.

 

That's exactly the problem with that album.

 

4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'd rather have the Philharmoniker's couple of spots of wonkiness than the LA Phil's consistent feeling of arrhythmia.

 

Don't forget the VPO Jaws performance being on the verge of falling apart.

 

4 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

No, he actually had more rehearsal time but cut the rehearsals short because he said the Philharmoniker are already playing perfectly.

 

JW is such a perfectionist that I'm not buying that explanation.

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14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's exactly the problem with that album

You are yet to name examples besides two seconds (trumpets coming in too late) in "SW main title" and the "Out to the sea" flute solo and a minor timing thing. But it's ok - you don't have to like it:wave: I'm sure 99.9% enjoy the Blueray/concert.

 

Btw. I also like the Dudamel CD. But it's obvious they edited many parts. I've heard two uncut LA Phily concerts with Williams music and there are many flubs.

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38 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

You need to calibrate your scale.

 

 

I have, but you keep ignoring all posts that don't suit your denialist narrative.

ROTFLMAO

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2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Don't forget the VPO Jaws performance being on the verge of falling apart.

 

I hear the brief sync problems in Hook and Star Wars, and a wrong chord in E.T. and I think Jurassic Park. I've never had a big issue with Jaws.

 

2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

JW is such a perfectionist that I'm not buying that explanation.

 

Then what would be your explanation? Because Williams *did* cut the rehearsals short saying that they're already playing perfectly. They would have had more time scheduled and he decided that they didn't need it.

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11 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Then what would be your explanation? Because Williams *did* cut the rehearsals short saying that they're already playing perfectly. They would have had more time scheduled and he decided that they didn't need it.

 

I don't have the correct explanation hidden under my bed, but the phrase sounds like typical PR fluff that puts everyone in a good light. 

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18 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I don't have the correct explanation hidden under my bed, but the phrase sounds like typical PR fluff that puts everyone in a good light. 

 

It's a fact. I've heard it reported from someone I know who was allowed to attend the rehearsals, even before the concerts took place.

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10 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

It's a fact. I've heard it reported from someone I know who was allowed to attend the rehearsals, even before the concerts took place.

 

I don't doubt they were served that explanation.

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2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I don't doubt they were served that explanation.

 

You mean Williams went through the pieces with the orchestra and then told them they're perfect already and can cut the current rehearsal short because he thought they're lousy but DG told him to go sightseeing instead?

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5 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

You mean Williams went through the pieces with the orchestra and then told them they're perfect already and can cut the current rehearsal short because he thought they're lousy but DG told him to go sightseeing instead?

 

Not at all. But we know JW isn't keen on talking about his health issues, and I'm sure he'd give them the benefit of the doubt if the rehearsal sessions had to be limited due to his health.

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At many moments the ensemble playing is remarkably poor for an orchestra of this stature even though you can still hear this is an orchestra consisting of great players. I blame lack of familiarity with the material and this could’ve happened with any other world-class orchestra as well, BUT when you’re planning a DG release the people in power should have planned things better, maybe have another conductor work on it beforehand, doing more patch-up sessions or whatever.

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Exactly.

 

2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

He seemed in fine health, i.e. I'd be surprised if he thought he had to be more careful than he had planned. And if he knew that he wouldn't be up to the full rehearsals that were required, he could have arranged for an assistant conductor - like Brossé, who in 2018 conducted the initial LSO rehearsals even before Williams became ill.

 

I'd say it was a simple miscalculation on Williams' part. With an orchestra that probably more than most usually focuses on repertoire (which they know in their sleep) and rarely performs entirely new stuff.

 

JW is an experienced conductor, and practicing his pieces for the first time with various orchestras is something he's done a lot in the past. However, being close to ninety, being in good form one day doesn't mean he's in good form all days. Frankly, I think he looked somewhat reduced at the concert - I doubt I'm the only one with that Impression.

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Frankly, I think he looked somewhat reduced at the concert - I doubt I'm the only one with that Impression.

 

Not my impression at least. He was clearly exhausted by the end of each concert, but that's no surprise, and not excessively so.

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1 hour ago, TownerFan said:


You’re just being pedantic, please. It’s absolutely fine disliking the recording and saying why (which you already did a million times!), but trying to convince others who enjoy and find good things in it with such absurd conspiracy theories is pathetic. Give it a rest.

 

I don't expect you to acknowledge any negative aspects of a JW recording, but please don't try to silence others who aren't afraid of acknowledging both the good and the bad.

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7 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

I too have things that I like or dislike, it’s human.

 

Still, you never express those dislikes when it comes to JW.

 

9 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

Expressing evaluation on something isn’t an act of courage, sorry.

 

Not expressing evaluation is even less courageous.

 

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People should be allowed to have an opinion and like what they like - or don’t like what they don’t like - but at some point you have to “read the room” and make peace with that you have made your point.
 

In any argument, you can’t keep beating the same old drum as a reflex response to each and every different opinion, in this case “Did you notice the flubs? Did you notice the flubs? Did you notice the flubs?

 

Yes, we did, man.

 

Let it go.

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15 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

The fact you acknowledge any negative things doesn’t make you look smarter or more intelligent than others.

 

Of course not, but it makes for a more interesting discussion. Who wants to read a review that focuses only on the good or the bad? I don't.

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6 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Still, you never express those dislikes when it comes to JW.

 

 

Not expressing evaluation is even less courageous.

 


You’re free to think whatever you want about me, no problem. I just don’t feel the urge of expressing my opinion on anything related to JW on this board. 

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1 hour ago, TownerFan said:


You’re free to think whatever you want about me, no problem. I just don’t feel the urge of expressing my opinion on anything related to JW on this board. 

 

Well, it's a discussion forum, so don't be surprised when people actually discuss here.

 

2 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Plus, I’m not silencing anyone, as this isn’t my place to begin with, but simply stating fatigue by reading your posts.

 

Some people are tired of the Emperor's-new-clothes mentally pervading this thread.

 

2 hours ago, TownerFan said:

But don’t worry, I’m the one who’s out of place here, so I’ll slip away as usual.

 

Not at all. I'd welcome more nuanced remarks from you, especially about music. :)

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4 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Patched together? You... you can't be serious. Please tell me you're not being serious.

What is your problem with my statement? It's a fact. You can ask DG if you don't believe it.

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