Lewya 360 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Here are the people I would put above Williams as far as Americana writing in the film world goes: Thomas Newman, Aaron Copland (obviously),Virgil Thomson, Leonard Rosenman (at his best at least), Hugo Friedhofer (at his best, think The Best Years of Our Lives which is a score Newman likes an awful lot by the way), Elmer Bernstein and Leonard Bernstein. Personally I find that it is hard to beat Thomas Newman in this category - it is probably the most individualistic and best Americana that movies have gotten since Copland. I would put Williams above Goldsmith probably though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 No other living person can do it better than Williams, IMO, although I agree Thomas Newman is up there too. That being said, I've grown a bit weary of it. It seems to be all over his scores now, no matter the topic or geography (even friggin' THE BFG, which is arch-British). I'd rather see him return more to his British/pastoral leanings, of which we got a hint in WAR HORSE. Or something else altogether. By the way, I've never heard any Americana in Rosenman's work. Any particular score you have in mind? Will and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 It's quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serafino 8 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Not that it's not a useful exercise, but how do you account for originality, reinvention, expansion of the genre in something like this, which is defined by having categorized the work of a few composers initially? For a new work we must then look for how it is similar to the previous works, without giving too much credit for imitation. That requires defining the style in its true essentials. We also have to figure out how to compare the value of things on different scales like the emotional immediacy of Newman's work in something like "How To Make An American Quilt" vs. the somewhat more abstract slow-blooming complexities of JW's "Lincoln" for instance. Come to think of it, what about Randy Newman? Was his music for 'The Natural' too up front compared to Thomas's accessible subtleties? But perhaps we are now getting into the differences between what one likes and what one recognizes to be great quality. To illustrate the latter, I'll confess that probably my favorite bit of Americana writing, the thing I wouldn't give up if I could only keep one example of the genre, just because of the feeling of inspiration it gives me, is Goldsmith's gem in the middle of "The Mountain" in Star Trek V. It's a small thing, rather out of context stylistically from the rest of the score, and I would be the first to admit that on some scales of quality JW's score for Lincoln is a grander project. But I don't listen to the latter much, just because it doesn't take me somewhere I want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I prefer Goldsmiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I don't rank anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 The beginning of the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 For me, only Copland is superior to Williams in Americana writing. What do you guys think about Horner, though? Legends of the Fall just might count. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Harrison, Ives, Adams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Soarin' Over California is Goldsmith's best Americana style music. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 On 2018-05-23 at 1:09 PM, Thor said: By the way, I've never heard any Americana in Rosenman's work. Any particular score you have in mind? I was thinking of East of Eden in particular, it is hard to beat the main title especially as far as Americana in film goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Steve McQueen said: For me, only Copland is superior to Williams in Americana writing. What do you guys think about Horner, though? Legends of the Fall just might count. Mushy John Barry impersonations do not make good americana. 9 hours ago, Stefancos said: I prefer Goldsmiths. He's got some gems but to be fair, the last 'real' opportunity to write in that style in depth was in the 70's. Williams is very good but - as usual - reticient at updating his sound once in a while. So pleasant boredom galore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Randy Newman is also very good at Americana. I love the quote he gives in the "Montage" group interview, where he first describes Williams' Americana in LINCOLN as 'vanilla', untill a particular piece (the End Credits?) where he realizes Williams is heads and shoulders above everyone else. The sheer sophistication of his writing. Unfortunately, I can't find the video on Youtube anymore. Will and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyy38 21 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 You want Americana? This stands firmly entrenched in the top 5, IMHO. Written before WIlliams was even born. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,286 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/11/2018 at 2:17 AM, Thor said: Randy Newman is also very good at Americana. I love the quote he gives in the "Montage" group interview, where he first describes Williams' Americana in LINCOLN as 'vanilla', untill a particular piece (the End Credits?) where he realizes Williams is heads and shoulders above everyone else. The sheer sophistication of his writing. Unfortunately, I can't find the video on Youtube anymore. Right here, Thor The Lincoln quote is at 19 minutes, 38 seconds Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 That's those trumpet solos and stuff like in American Journey, right? Yeah, my least favorite aspect of John Williams. Sounds awkward and unorganic at times. PS: I don't care how "technically accomplished" it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Nothing awkward and unorganic about Leaving Home. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Verily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 🎶 I don't rank it anymore... nooo I don't rank it anymore!!! 🎵 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Americana writing is usually quite boring in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 All I can say is that I always loved banjo. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I like banjo too...especially in the action music of Quigley Down Under! 41 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: Americana writing is usually quite boring in my opinion. Really??? Here is probably the most quintessential Americana concert piece of all time...give it a listen please: ...would you really classify that as boring to you? It’s been hugely influential on countless Americans western scores, and sometimes just used outright in films. I’m having a suspicion that it might just be Williams-meandering-trumpet-line-Americana you find boring, a la Saving Private Ryan (which I gotta admit, I sometimes find boring myself...) rather that Americana as a category of music in general (I can provide many more thrilling examples.) Yavar Bespin and Brundlefly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: I’m having a suspicion that it might just be Williams-meandering-trumpet-line-Americana you find boring, a la Saving Private Ryan (which I gotta admit, I sometimes find boring myself...) rather that Americana as a category of music in general (I can provide many more thrilling examples.) Yes. That's the kind of Americana I (should have) referred to. The piece you posted is quite cool. It is the kind of Americana that makes me immediately think of westerns. Regarding Williams: I'm not that much a fan of Saving Private Ryan and Amistad (the Americana parts, I love the Africana parts of Amistad). Lincoln is what I would consider as Americana too, but it somehow feels fresh and different. I love it. Yavar Moradi and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Banjo is underrated... Why all this hype around... harpsichord??? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,527 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I'm too old to rank, anymore Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Its discriminatry to rank a anyway! Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I find Williams's Americana distinctive to him. For example, watch this: In this fascinating video, we get a uniquely vivid picture of Rachmaninoff the man and the composer. This pianist performed The Rock's Prelude Op. 32, No. 10 in b minor with the composer in attendance. In this very personal piece, the composer reflects of a home that no longer exists. He was now living in California but reflecting on the pre Soviet Russia of his youth that no longer existed. It's a very unique and personal take because the composer knows his homeland is gone and he is now a wanderer. I hear something similar in Williams with his Americana. It can't be compared to Copeland who had a very different experience but great composers are able to transcribe their personal feelings and recollections in ways that make the most sense musically. JW's Americana is a reflection of his thoughts, memories, and feelings of his youth from a particular time that is gone forever but tells us all we need to know to imagine it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now