Star Wars Disenchantment

[Mattris 416]

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

If you're delusional.

 

No, just confident that George Lucas in very much 'in' on this.

 

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

And then you will say we're being lied to or it's misdirection. So no one can really present any evidence to you.

 

What do you consider the best pieces of evidence that support your position?

 

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

There is never going to be any concrete proof for either theory because people can lie or misdirect.

 

The thousands of literal connections in the canon and scores do not lie or misdirect. Their sum is exponentially greater than their parts, a degree of substance concrete enough to be considered proof. I'm confident that these pieces of evidence, in totality, are what Lucasfilm will use as proof that they had an overall plan for the Saga.

 

8 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

I'm sure you realize that for a secretly shot Episode X to remain a secret, all the pre production people, director, screenwriter, producer, all principle cast along with hundreds of extras and characters with very little screen time, editors, hundreds of VFX artists, composer, and I suppose even high level Disney/LF people would all have to keep tight lips. A rather large cover up, admittedly..?

 

and despite JediPaxis leaking pretty much the entire plot to IX several months before the movie came out, there are still no leaks whatsoever? Leakers already had the complete plot to VII also several months before that came out as well. I suspect you will say something like all of Bad Robot's leaks were deliberate, to throw people off the scent, including their leaks for non-SW properties

 

And lastly, do you think Palpatine will return in this one too? And be beaten for the third time?

 

Yes, a rather large cover up... and relatively easy to keep secret since X was shot with  IX. It's being treated like 'deleted scenes' from IX - two hours of deleted scenes - featuring that 90 minutes of John Williams score that was inexplicably 'dropped'.

 

8 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

and despite JediPaxis leaking pretty much the entire plot to IX several months before the movie came out, there are still no leaks whatsoever? Leakers already had the complete plot to VII also several months before that came out as well. I suspect you will say something like all of Bad Robot's leaks were deliberate, to throw people off the scent, including their leaks for non-SW properties

 

Didn't Disney admit that the leaks for IX were deliberate?  Did Han Solo's death leak?

 

8 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

And lastly, do you think Palpatine will return in this one too?

 

"Return" implies that he left.

 

8 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

And be beaten for the third time?

 

Palpatine was never beaten.

 

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." I dismiss this theory on those grounds.

 

I've presented dozens of pieces of evidence, all more credible than 'people said things'.

 

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Also, the “Jedi way” did not fail. The Republic failed the Jedi. Luke was redeeming his father. He was returning the Jedi. The Redemption of the Jedi would be a very different movie.

 

What was  "the Jedi way"?  I say the Jedi failed spectacularly, having been beaten by a superior opponent. The Republic failed for multiple reasons.

 

I would consider it more accurate that Anakin redeemed himself.  Either way, what was the redemption?

 

6 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

The "default position" maintains the status quo, which in this case is that episode X does not exist

 

No, the "default position" is knowing nothing - therefore having no opinion or position - about a particular topic.

[greenturnedblue 372]

22 minutes ago, Mattris said:

No, the "default position" is knowing nothing - therefore having no opinion or position - about a particular topic.

You don't think we're saying the same thing? Having no opinion on something maintains the status quo as nothing is changing

 

22 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Didn't Disney admit that the leaks for IX were deliberate?  Did Han Solo's death leak?

Nothing seems to come up about deliberate IX leaks with a quick Google search. Yes it was difficult to go anywhere on the internet without trolls posting in capital letters "HAN SOLO DIES IN THE NEW STAR WARS MOVIE". even on random unrelated Instagram pictures and YouTube comments. Don't say it, A guerilla marketing campaign? Right

[Mattris 416]

We are not saying the same thing.

 

Upon considering the evidence of which you are aware, you are saying that Episode X has not been filmed.

 

Upon considering the evidence of which I am aware, I am saying that Episode X has  been filmed.

 

On this particular topic, "the status quo" and "nothing is changing" implies 'There is no additional information or evidence to consider' other than 'There has been no official announcement of the film.'

 

As I have demonstrated, there is  additional information or evidence to consider.

[Schilkeman 955]

Being "beaten" is not the same as failing. However, your behavior in this thread tells me you don't understand the difference.

[Mattris 416]

I did not say that 'being beaten' and 'failing' were the same. I said the Jedi failed, having been beaten. Perhaps you should consider if 'the Jedi way' led to their failings and defeat.

 

'My behavior in this thread ' has nothing to do with my knowledge. But feel free to explain to me the difference.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

14 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Johnson didn't do that. There was nothing to undo.

 

While true, the problem with the reveal of Rey Nobody is it came after 2 hours of "LOL JUST KIDDING IT MEANS NOTHING". When EVERY answer to every question you set up was "Hah, it doesn't matter. You're a fool and wasted your time wondering", the effect was frustrating by then. If the entire movie kept going in a Force Awakens like direction up to that point and then they pull the rug out from under you with that reveal near the end of the movie, and then the audience feels the same sense of a gut punch that Rey did, it might have been way more effective...and even kind of meta. 

 

Speaking of, Rey was never interested in who her parents were. It was kind of weird. She wanted to see them again, sure, but it wasn't until TLJ that she was curious about who they were. The movies wanted you to be curious about that, but Rey herself was just waiting for them to come back for her. 

 

14 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Johnson got JJ to change TFA so that Rey brought R2 instead of BB-8. So it's not like they weren't talking to each other.

 

...and apparently they had to call up JJ to not have Luke floating in the air meditating surrounded by rocks floating around him, since Johnson decided he needed to be cut off from the force.

 

20 hours ago, rough cut said:

BTW, Did you guys hear what Rian Johnson had to say about his intentions with TLJ, that it was to give the story/characters a “viking funeral”.

 

 

As much as I enjoyed Knives Out, that man should’ve never been given the keys to the Star Wars universe.

 

Source: comicbook.com

 

It's so strange...because while he's not TECHNICALLY wrong, it just doesn't work no matter how much you shake it out. No matter how much you want to make the movie an independent, standalone movie, it's intrinsically tied to both the previous 7 movies before it, its characters, and plot, and it has to set up for the movie that will follow up. He can whine all he wants about franchises and selling movies and stuff, but that's what he signed up for. He knew he was the middle part of a trilogy. It's not like they asked him to make a movie, it was successful, and they decided to milk it from there. He also wasn't hired for a standalone spinoff. He signed up for Episode 8 of a series. There's no getting around that.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

While true, the problem with the reveal of Rey Nobody is it came after 2 hours of "LOL JUST KIDDING IT MEANS NOTHING". When EVERY answer to every question you set up was "Hah, it doesn't matter. You're a fool and wasted your time wondering",

 

My feelings towards TLJ have cooled a bit over the last few years (after once being a great admirer), but I still don't understand this interpretation.  It would never enter my brain to interpret things this way.  It did not feel remotely like a rug pull to me.

 

EDIT:  Ugh, just realized what thread this is I've posted in.  Gross.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

What I mean by that statement is that the previous movie and emphasis on who her parents are in the first 2/3 of The Last Jedi, so they TRIED to pull the rug out from you, but it didn't work because you had an entire movie of "jk jk" mini twists throughout the movie.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, batmatt92 said:

 

This is all I wanted to know, personally.

 

I'm really looking forward to J.J. Abrams' Star Wars Episode X, to be released sometime before April 6th 2031!

 

What happens on April 6, 2031?

[Tallguy 3,376]

1 minute ago, Demodex said:

 

What happens on April 6, 2031?

 

Warp drive?

[Datameister 2,037]

I feel pretty confident that Mattris has a strong grasp of logic and epistemology, and we underestimate this grasp at our own peril. (So much easier for a troll to push people's buttons when they actually understand the topic at hand really well. I just don't know how he finds time for such a long-term, high-word-count trolling endeavor. What a way to spend one's life.)

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

What do you consider the best pieces of evidence that support your position?

 

What does it matter?  It's all lies and misdirection unless it supports your theories.   Your "proof" is no better than anyone else's. If it was the argument would be over. 

[greenturnedblue 372]

Would still like to see some info that Disney intentionally leaked all the JediPaxis details. And the point on asking about Han Solo's death leaking out

 

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

since X was shot with  IX

 

JJ barely had enough time to film IX as-is, it is absurd to think he could have also filmed an entire separate film during that time as well. 2 years and 3 months, was it, from coming onboard, to the film being released? While Rian Johnson had over three years for his entry? 

[Jay 37,287]

It's interesting learning who uses light mode and who uses dark mode based on when they attempt to do a spoiler block manually and it only works in one theme instead of both

[greenturnedblue 372]

That is actually a misdirection, they want you to think they're incompetent by using the spoiler block wrong 

[Demodex 557]

i don't know why he is so adamant about Episode 10 being filmed already?  What does it add to his fantasy world?  Wouldn't it be just the same if they filmed it in the future since it's not going to be released for years anyway?

 

And for the sake of argument, if it is filmed, it must suck as much as TROS. 

[batmatt92 4]

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

What happens on April 6, 2031?

 

No idea, but that's exactly 99 months from today. So if Mattris is sure that Episode X's release is "double digit months away", it will have to be by then at the latest!

[Datameister 2,037]

39 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

That is actually a misdirection, they want you to think they're incompetent by using the spoiler block wrong 

 

Sshhhhh …

[Mattris 416]

4 hours ago, Demodex said:

What does it matter?  It's all lies and misdirection unless it supports your theories.   Your "proof" is no better than anyone else's. If it was the argument would be over. 

 

The best pieces of evidence that support your position should be a pretty good indicator of its strength.

 

When considered in total, my pieces of evidence are far more substantive and explanatory. Do you remember what I supposed and predicted?

 

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

JJ barely had enough time to film IX as-is, it is absurd to think he could have also filmed an entire separate film during that time as well. 2 years and 3 months, was it, from coming onboard, to the film being released? While Rian Johnson had over three years for his entry? 

 

Perhaps JJ barely had enough time to film IX as-is because he shot two films. It certainly would explain the film's extremely high listed budget.

 

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

i don't know why he is so adamant about Episode 10 being filmed already?  What does it add to his fantasy world?  Wouldn't it be just the same if they filmed it in the future since it's not going to be released for years anyway?

 

I'm saying, what's in Episode X adds to the Saga. If it had been filmed in the future, it's existence would not have been a surprise. Being triXie about it is paramount to their overall presentation.

 

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

And for the sake of argument, if it is filmed, it must suck as much as TROS. 

 

"Suck" is a point of view.  BTW, what do you think happened at the end of TROS?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

It's interesting learning who uses light mode and who uses dark mode based on when they attempt to do a spoiler block manually and it only works in one theme instead of both

 

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. I was like "why is the text more visible?" 

[Datameister 2,037]

Light mode for life!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

19 minutes ago, Datameister said:

Light mode for life!

Brother!

[DarthDementous 1,059]

...wait there's a dark mode?

[Groovygoth666 650]

5 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

...wait there's a dark mode?

Ya, bottom of the page under theme 

[Datameister 2,037]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Being triXie about it is paramount to their overall presentation.

 

Exactly! The "Trixie" working title contains both "IX" and "X". It couldn't be more obvious. If they weren't secretly filming them together, they would have chosen a different title that did include "IX" but didn't include "X". How is nobody persuaded by this?! 

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

When considered in total, my pieces of evidence are far more substantive and explanatory.

 

Not really, or otherwise people would be agreeing with you.  I'm not sure why you can't wrap your head around that. 

Your pieces of evidence are far from actual proof.  Our evidence is from recent interviews and articles and fucking common sense.

 

 

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

I'm saying, what's in Episode X adds to the Saga. If it had been filmed in the future, it's existence would not have been a surprise. Being triXie about it is paramount to their overall presentation.

 

This is dumb!!  Whether they filmed it now or later, it would have the same exact impact when they either announce it being made or released.  There is no reason to have filmed it when they did Episode 9.  If anything they would want more time to write and film it so that it doesn't suck like Episode 9.

 

Also, I answered your questions.  Are you going to tell me why I'm wrong or did you not get the answers you wanted?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

Ya, bottom of the page under theme 

God damn, that is so much better thank you

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

2 hours ago, Groovygoth666 said:

Ya, bottom of the page under theme 

 

18 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

God damn, that is so much better thank you

 

2 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

...wait there's a dark mode?

System theme or it’s useless.

[Mattris 416]

16 hours ago, Datameister said:

Exactly! The "Trixie" working title contains both "IX" and "X". It couldn't be more obvious. If they weren't secretly filming them together, they would have chosen a different title that did include "IX" but didn't include "X". How is nobody persuaded by this?! 

 

Trixie also includes "XI"  

 

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

Not really, or otherwise people would be agreeing with you.  I'm not sure why you can't wrap your head around that. 

Your pieces of evidence are far from actual proof.  Our evidence is from recent interviews and articles and fucking common sense.

 

To those of you who remain unconvinced/unintrigued by my evidence, I have to concede that...

 

... "you can't wrap your head around" the strong possibly that there is something else going on with Star Wars because you are confident in your 'strength in numbers' assessment of it: the story itself, as well as the making and specific presentation of these works. 'There can't be anything more to it. Surely, they would have corrected us!'

 

... you underestimate the substantive nature of the evidence I have presented. Calling everything I've noted from the films and canon 'unintentional coincidences' is, quite frankly, absurd in that doing so diminishes the fact that these literal excerpts so specifically connect to each other (same words, phrases, themes, etc.) and give significantly greater meaning (and explanation) to what has happened throughout the story through Episode IX.  And let's not forget the connections within the themes/cues of the scores... that connect directly to these story beats. More 'happy accidents', right?

 

Mark my words, more credit will be owed to George Lucas and John Williams for their work on Star Wars. They will have deserved it.

 

As for the "recent interviews and articles", the film makers wouldn't have insinuated anything regarding 'a lack of a plan for the 3rd trilogy' unless it helped their cause. (It certainly doesn't benefit them monetarily.) But they just keep bringing it up, or at the very least, allow the public to run with this narrative. All told, this single aspect should have been a giant red flag. But no. Just go on believing the people that terribly mishandled Star Wars and can't stop reminding you about it. That's "fucking common sense", right?  

 

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

This is dumb!!  Whether they filmed it now or later, it would have the same exact impact when they either announce it being made or released.  There is no reason to have filmed it when they did Episode 9.  If anything they would want more time to write and film it so that it doesn't suck like Episode 9.

 

No. You're not getting it. The surprise is the whole point. We are meant to think the Saga is complete, just as we were meant to assume that Episode VI marked the THE END of the Saga almost 40 years ago.

 

Filming Episode X years after IX would mean the surprise factor of its very existence would be lost. And that's before we see what happens in it.

 

From JJ being announced as IX's new writer/director to the start of filming, he and Chris Terrio had over a year to write two films, which I predict are just two sides of the same coin. 

 

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

Also, I answered your questions.  Are you going to tell me why I'm wrong or did you not get the answers you wanted?

 

One last thing before I address your answers. Did you see the OT before you saw the prequels?

[Schilkeman 955]

I guess it doesn’t matter to me. They could make 5 more trilogies, and they would still suck, to me, because I have become DISENCHANTED with Disney Star Wars. Even if they were all planned out, planning doesn’t equal depth, or quality. It would be a nice change of pace, though. 
 

Six films, The Clone Wars, Andor—toss in a couple of books—that’s Star Wars to my satisfaction. Every question I have has been answered, every plot thread resolved.
 

I would have it that George would make new films until he was dead in the ground, but hey. I’m glad some people find enjoyment in the new stuff, good for them, because they are certainly not going to stop making it.

[Mattris 416]

51 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

Every question I have has been answered, every plot thread resolved.

 

To this, I would say that you have not thought very deeply about Star Wars, having taken everything at relative face value. Perhaps that's all George Lucas intended. But the fact is, I could pose to you a long list of Star Wars lore/plot questions, and you couldn't accurately answer a single one of them... because definitive, canonical explanations have not been given.

 

51 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

I would have it that George would make new films until he was dead in the ground, but hey. I’m glad some people find enjoyment in the new stuff, good for them, because they are certainly not going to stop making it.

 

George is having others make Star Wars films for him. That's why he gave the reins to his trusted associate of decades.

 

51 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

I guess it doesn’t matter to me. They could make 5 more trilogies, and they would still suck, to me, because I have become DISENCHANTED with Disney Star Wars.

 

So you "have become DISENCHANTED with Disney Star Wars" but were satisfied with Andor. I trust you will tune in to Andor season 2.

 

The majority of your current disappointment must stem from your perception of the sequel trilogy. Imagine if these installments did have depth, quality, and fit with the first six films. What if this continuation of the Saga was Lucas-intended? Now wouldn't that be something?

 

This is exactly what I think is happening.

[greenturnedblue 372]

We get it, "it's like poetry, it rhymes", or something. I'm all for a secret Episode X coming out, I just don't see how it would have been possible to film alongside IX given the filming schedule was incredibly compressed and JJ had less time from start to finish compared with the other two sequels. It is a feat JJ managed to release IX in time, to also have made X as well is completely ludicrous. Do you have any idea how much work it is to make just one film?

 

The editors said they were allowed to edit on set, to expedite the process. I suppose this is a misdirection from the real truth that they were editing X in secret?

 

Quote

It certainly would explain the film's extremely high listed budget.

Yet the budget was still smaller than Force Awakens?

 

There is allegedly 90 minutes of dropped JW material because the cut went from just under 3 hours, to 2:37 on Nov 11, to 2:22 that was released. The order of the first act especially was molested, the Luke and Leia training montage went from a 5 minute segment which opened the film to a 30 second flashback on Ach To. Cues were taken from later reels to patch the holes, which is why Reys theme plays as Kylo Ren is on the way to exegol in the beginning. Scenes with the Oracle and Vader's castle were cut completely (both are in pieces of concept art in the Art Of book. JJ said the Oracle was his favourite creature design, and they wouldn't have cut it if absolutely necessary. Rumor has it he didn't cut it at all, Disney did after he handed in his complete 2:37 cut on Nov 11). Hux, Pryde and a bunch of first order troops were cut from being on the ground in Mustafar, along with Vader's ghost/spirit haunting Kylo Ren as he searches for the wayfinder. Now, he simply picks up the wayfinder from a chest (another of JJ's mystery boxes, "a good question for another time". The other wayfinder is behind a panel in the death star throne room, which never existed in VI, nor did the door Rey walks through. All part of the plan?

 

One of the only hints, maybe even the only one, I've noticed regarding Palpatine's return is The Emperor's theme plays as Snoke tortures Rey. But, VIII has many other moments where the temp track shines through (battle of the heroes as the bombs drop, force theme ad nauseum, Yoda's theme basically tracked). If there are thousands of other clues and hints, what are a few of them?

[Schilkeman 955]

47 minutes ago, Mattris said:

This is exactly what I think is happening.

Good for you

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Schilkeman said:

I guess it doesn’t matter to me.

 

Bad for you

[DarthDementous 1,059]

3 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

They could make 5 more trilogies, and they would still suck, to me, because I have become DISENCHANTED with Disney Star Wars

Actually that's a good point, why is Mattris considering his crusade to an audience of a thread about being disillusioned with Star Wars and having no faith in the people running it? What's the opposite of preaching to the choir? 

 

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

But the fact is, I could pose to you a long list of Star Wars lore/plot questions, and you couldn't accurately answer a single one of them... because definitive, canonical explanations have not been given.

 
This just in, open-ended questions with a philosophical focus don't have clear-cut answers, more on the news at 10

[Chen G. 3,943]

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

The Emperor's theme plays as Snoke tortures Rey. But, VIII has many other moments where the temp track shines through

 

I don't think that's temp-track emulation as such. I think, in-line with the slightly meta, slightly tongue-in-cheek touch of the film, the score is also doing the same kind of thing. So when Snoke tortures Rey, in comes Williams' on the soundtrack: "Boy oh boy, this scene sure does look familiar, ain't it, folks?! hehe..." and all just shortly before Johnson turns it on its head.

 

I always equate it to the quotations of Tristan in Meistersinger.

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Filming Episode X years after IX later would mean the surprise factor of its very existence would be lost.

 

How so?  We can't be surprised in 6 or 7 years if they announce another trilogy?  It makes no sense!!  By your logic, they should have filmed Episode 7 at the same time as Episode 3.  Instead we were all surprised by a new trilogy announcement 10 years later. 

Your "logic" makes no sense. 

[Mattris 416]

23 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

You suspect Episode X was also filmed? How about you give me some actual production evidence instead of guessing? Every recent Star Wars project has had set photos (and in some cases full plot summaries) leaked. Not hard to get them, especially with reliable insiders and filming in public.

 

I can't give you what I don't have... what simply doesn't exist for "reliable insiders" to share. This situation is not like "every recent Star Wars project". I doubt that anyone outside of the Disney/Lucasfilm execs, JJ Abrams, and his cast and crew even know what they did: filmed two episodes at once to hide their trixie. (That's why it was called that.)

 

I have used the evidence I have perceived to make an educated guess:

Episode X was shot with IX and will be released at a time of their choosing.

 

23 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

What you initially responded to is a quote of me talking about the hypothetical evidence I would need to see in order to believe that there is a grand plan. If you think I'm talking about my evidence for believing there's no plan for the trilogy then you have misread what I have said. I'm starting to think it's intentional at this point. It's almost like you do recognize what I'm saying about you being unable to disconfirm your belief with evidence means it isn't based on evidence, and you don't want to admit it. Seems to consistently be the one thing you keep twisting into talking about my evidence for believing there isn't a plan.

 

Please tell me: How can I 'disconfirm my belief with evidence'? Why is it necessary that I do this? If I was able to do so with all matters of uncertainty, could I ever believe in anything?

 

And you're damn right I want you to talk about your evidence for believing there isn't a plan... because we both know that evidence is weaker than weak  and must disregard my noted canon/music evidence as being part of a plan.

 

23 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

That the subject of the picture does not meet the criteria for what is considered an apple. In this case, you agree that it does meet the criteria, and I also agree it meets the criteria. Therefore we both have the belief that the photo is of an apple. However, we both used the same criteria to determine that, that being the criteria for what is an apple (reddish, stalk, particular shape etc.). It's hypothetical because it doesn't have to be true. That's why I don't get why you're so hesitant to present the hypothetical evidence for your belief, you don't have to agree that there is something out there that contradicts it otherwise you wouldn't be holding the belief in the first place (provided it is actually evidence-based).

 

Are you saying that I have not 'presented the hypothetical evidence for my belief'?

 

23 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

I'm asking for physical evidence, you keep giving literary evidence. Words on a page in a fictional book do not dictate the reality of something that is physically in our world.

 

First of all, diminishing the Star Wars canon (incl. the films) as "fictional" is a rather sad tactic. These works exist "physically in our world".  Identical words, phrases, and themes exist throughout all of the Saga films, novelizations, and screenplays... as well as the other canon material (novels, comics, shows, games, etc.).

 

Words have consistent definitions. Specific words, groupings of certain words (phrases), and specific sentiments can be recognized as being present in throughout different works. I have concluded that this specific literally identical  content was deliberately included throughout the decades of publicly-released Star Wars canon material (starting in 1976) in order to indicate - and prove - that connections exist that give the story additional context and significantly greater meaning.

 

The more quotes, connections, and observations provided... the more people would begin to realize what I have... and what Alec Guinness probably knew.

 

 

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

Actually that's a good point, why is Mattris considering his crusade to an audience of a thread about being disillusioned with Star Wars and having no faith in the people running it? What's the opposite of preaching to the choir? 

 

Maybe I'm enjoying the crusade and debate and learning a few things along the way. Plus, I must say, I'm looking forward to being vindicated again, as I was in April 2019 when everyone thought I was nuts, having gone out on a limb by myself.

 

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

This just in, open-ended questions with a philosophical focus don't have clear-cut answers, more on the news at 10

 

This just in, we don't know that the questions and mysteries of Star Wars don't have clear-cut answers. They just haven't been answered yet.  More on this in Episode X.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

22 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

So when Snoke tortures Rey, in comes Williams' on the soundtrack: "Boy oh boy, this scene sure does look familiar, ain't it, folks?! hehe..." and all just shortly before Johnson turns it on its head.

Yeah! By making the familial bad guy...surprisingly turn on his master and kill him to save the life of the protagonist. Oh.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Just now, DarthDementous said:

By making the familial bad guy...surprisingly turn on his master and kill him to save the life of the protagonist.

 

Hey, I'm the first to say Johnson's "twists" are cheap!

[Demodex 557]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

One last thing before I address your answers. Did you see the OT before you saw the prequels

 

Yes. You?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I can't give you what I don't have... what simply doesn't exist for "reliable insiders" to share.

Most honest thing I've seen you say yet

 

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Please tell me: How can I 'disconfirm my belief with evidence'? Why is it necessary that I do this? If I was able to do so with all matters of uncertainty, could I ever believe in anything?

By thinking of what the criteria of what you'd need to see in order to change your mind would look like. It's required if you want to claim your belief is based on evidence. You can certainly believe in something if you don't feel you've seen anything that meets the criteria to change that belief, that's why again it's hypothetical. There's an easy out to having to do this, by the way. Just admit to yourself that there's other factors that have formed this belief you hold so strongly. Then at least people can be more on the same page when they engage you and won't get frustrated when they assume your belief is founded on evidence and try and engage with it on that level.

 

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

And you're damn right I want you to talk about your evidence for believing there isn't a plan... because we both know that evidence is weaker than weak  and must disregard my noted canon/music evidence as being part of a plan.

What kind of evidence would you accept as valid for believing there isn't a plan? Also I'm putting my foot down, your canon/music evidence has no bearing on the realities of Lucasfilm production. You want to prove that reality, you present physical evidence - not literary metaphor and assumptions of creative intent.

 

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Are you saying that I have not 'presented the hypothetical evidence for my belief'?

No. Read what I said again.

 

16 minutes ago, Mattris said:

First of all, diminishing the Star Wars canon (incl. the films) as "fictional" is a rather sad tactic.

Nope, them being fictional doesn't diminish them at all. It's just important to distinguish between fiction and reality, and it seems the lines have blurred for you to the point you're not thinking rationally about this.

[Mattris 416]

@Demodex Before you saw that prequels, what did you think was the story of the OT?

[Demodex 557]

7 hours ago, Mattris said:

But they just keep bring it up, or at the very least, allow the public to run with this narrative. All told, this single aspect should have been a giant red flag

 

It was a red flag alright. A red flag that this trilogy was going to suck. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

First of all, diminishing the Star Wars canon (incl. the films) as "fictional" is a rather sad tactic

 

Yeah, because these events all actually happened!!  A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.  Lucas has proof!  🙄🙄🙄

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

@Demodex Before you saw that prequels, what did you think was the story of the OT?

 

What did I think the story was? I answered it already but here we go again. 

 

The OT story is mainly the Rebel Alliance defeating the Empire and Anakin finding redemption by destroying the Emperor.

[Mattris 416]

No mention of Luke Skywalker? For so long, he was the hero of the  Star Wars Trilogy.

 

My point is... If asked to briefly summarize the story of the OT before the prequels, not many Star Wars fans would have even mentioned Anakin.

 

This shows what greater context can do to one's interpretation of a story. It also shows the affect of one's interpretation on their lasting thoughts. Perception becomes reality, especially when it fits one's assumptions. Add in popular assumption, and we have a (potential) recipe for disaster.

 

As we know, there are many Star Wars fans who have all but disregarded the prequels... and now the sequels. Six out of the nine saga films.

 

Are they missing something?

[Demodex 557]

In 169 pages that may have been the first time you posted something that made sense. 

 

I forgot to mention Luke becoming a Jedi. 40 years of Lucas saying the whole saga is Anakin's story led to me forgetting about him. 

 

Which may be why I feel there was no need for an ST because Anakin's story was done.  Finished.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

As we know, there are many Star Wars fans who have all but disregarded the prequels... and now the sequels. Six out of the nine saga films.

 

I don't disregard the prequels as if they never happened. I just have no desire to watch Episodes 1 and 2 because of the horrible acting and dialogue.  The story isn't bad, just poorly executed. 

I do like most of Episode 3. 

 

I like TFA and I love TLJ except for Canto Bight.  TROS isn't horrible until they have to use the dagger to find the wayfinder. From there it turns to shit. 

 

So out of 9 movies, 6.5 are watchable. 

 

 

[Datameister 2,037]

Every time I come to this thread and there isn't a new Mattris post, I die a little inside. I think I have a problem. Do they have support groups for this?

[Mattris 416]

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

What kind of evidence would you accept as valid for believing there isn't a plan?

 

I don't know. What evidence could possibly exist as valid for causing me to believe there isn't a plan for Star Wars... or wasn't a plan for the sequel trilogy?

 

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

By thinking of what the criteria of what you'd need to see in order to change your mind would look like.

 

For starters:  Could I have access to every Disney/Lucasfilm/subsidiary companies' servers, vaults, data drives, computer systems, and reels of film to see that nothing even possibly related to Episode X exists?

 

If I didn't find anything, I would suspect that JJ or KK have the film at their house. (Just being honest.)

 

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

There's an easy out to having to do this, by the way. Just admit to yourself that there's other factors that have formed this belief you hold so strongly. Then at least people can be more on the same page when they engage you and won't get frustrated when they assume your belief is founded on evidence and try and engage with it on that level.

 

What "other factors" do you think are affecting my beliefs on this matter? Critical thinking? Superior comprehension? Attuned discernment?

 

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Nope, them being fictional doesn't diminish them at all. It's just important to distinguish between fiction and reality, and it seems the lines have blurred for you to the point you're not thinking rationally about this.

 

Star Wars is a story based in philosophy and other facets of human thought/study/comprehension/mystery. Seeking to understand the story - and the overall reality and purpose of Star Wars - based solely on rationale (popular audience assessment, interpretation of cast/crew tell-alls, and indisputable physical evidence only after-the-fact) is terribly limiting. Mark my words, this short-sighted approach will prove to have been a severe mistake, resulting in utter failure on the part of the Star Wars audience.

 

8 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Also I'm putting my foot down, your canon/music evidence has no bearing on the realities of Lucasfilm production. You want to prove that reality, you present physical evidence - not literary metaphor and assumptions of creative intent.

 

The works of the Star Wars canon and music are the only evidence that should be truly accepted since they are part of its official recorded history. This evidence can 'have bearing on the realities of Lucasfilm productions' if select excerpts/examples from this content are shown to have eluded to, connected, and foreshadowed what has happened and will happen in the story.

 

You need more "physical evidence" to be convinced there was a plan? Don't you worry, @DarthDementous. It's coming.

 

Perhaps you'll think of me when you finally see it... and realize it was always there.

[greenturnedblue 372]

4 minutes ago, Mattris said:

select excerpts/examples from this content are shown to have eluded to, connected, and foreshadowed what has happened and will happen in the story

 

Go on...

[Chen G. 3,943]

50 minutes ago, Datameister said:

Do they have support groups for this?

 

Ain't nothing wrong with having a quiet drink, going into this thread and having a good hearty laugh.

 

Its therapeutic!