Star Wars Disenchantment

[Brando 1,856]

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Whether or not this is all a troll is beside the point (though, for what it's worth I don't think it's trolling, even if a lot of the "tactics" resemble it). The fact that people continue to give oxygen to this bin fire of a thread is the real concern - this whole thing is a microcosm for the chasm of reality occurring around the world at the moment, and the human compulsion to be entertained by it all. There are no universal truths anymore, shared belief in traditional evidence is disintegrating, the "online" and "real" worlds are becoming more and more detached etc. I decided years ago to no longer engage with Mattriss, but I now won't even be checking in on this thread. What was once amusing is now just more evidence of a troubling social phenomenon that I've been guilty of contributing to with my presence. I know this isn't an airport and I don't need to announce my departure, but for the sake of your own sanity folks, consider doing the same.

[Demodex 557]

When I go back to work I won't be able to follow this thread anymore. 

 

I just think it's hilarious that anyone believes that SW: Episode X is already filmed.  I'm just wondering when (not if) in 20 years there is still no sign of another trilogy, will Mattris's head explode, or will he finally admit he's wrong.  

 

[Datameister 2,037]

18 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

Whether or not this is all a troll is beside the point (though, for what it's worth I don't think it's trolling, even if a lot of the "tactics" resemble it). The fact that people continue to give oxygen to this bin fire of a thread is the real concern - this whole thing is a microcosm for the chasm of reality occurring around the world at the moment, and the human compulsion to be entertained by it all. There are no universal truths anymore, shared belief in traditional evidence is disintegrating, the "online" and "real" worlds are becoming more and more detached etc. I decided years ago to no longer engage with Mattriss, but I now won't even be checking in on this thread. What was once amusing is now just more evidence of a troubling social phenomenon that I've been guilty of contributing to with my presence. I know this isn't an airport and I don't need to announce my departure, but for the sake of your own sanity folks, consider doing the same.

 

I hadn't really experienced the full glory of this thread till very recently. I don't recall being aware of this particular dumpster fire, so it still has novelty for me. It'll wear off fast. In the meantime, I guess it's kinda like … the reality chasm you mentioned is profoundly unfunny to me when it's a topic that truly matters. This is just pure silliness.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

11 hours ago, Mattris said:

I can't help that people don't want to consider that they could be very, very wrong about something. I suppose it's human nature

How, pray-tell, does this not apply to you as well? You’ve given literally zero room for you to be incorrect about any of this.

[Mattris 416]

19 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Of course you are, because you know without that you have nothing.

 

Ah, but I do have the dated, literal canon and music evidence, don't I?

What do you have, again?

 

19 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Are we just going to ignore that Luke and Leia tongue-kissed in Empire Strikes Back...twice

 

Those kisses on the lips did not involve tongue.

 

8 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

The fact that people continue to give oxygen to this bin fire of a thread is the real concern - this whole thing is a microcosm for the chasm of reality occurring around the world at the moment, and the human compulsion to be entertained by it all.

 

True, people are inclined to believe statements (insinuations, personal stories, opinions, etc.) by famous/entertainment people over facts, logic, and canon-wide evidence. A sad reality.

 

8 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

There are no universal truths anymore, shared belief in traditional evidence is disintegrating, the "online" and "real" worlds are becoming more and more detached etc.

 

For the most part, I agree with you here... except that I think universal truths will always exists.

 

8 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I decided years ago to no longer engage with Mattriss, but I now won't even be checking in on this thread. What was once amusing is now just more evidence of a troubling social phenomenon that I've been guilty of contributing to with my presence.

 

A troubling social phenomenon, indeed. Some people just refuse to listen or consider 'the other side'.  (I know, I've experienced it with Star Wars.)

 

8 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I know this isn't an airport and I don't need to announce my departure, but for the sake of your own sanity folks, consider doing the same.

 

Ignoring something will not make it go away, especially when it comes to (universal) truths and facts... including those concerning Star Wars.

 

All the best, @Docteur Qui.

 

8 hours ago, Demodex said:

I just think it's hilarious that anyone believes that SW: Episode X is already filmed.  I'm just wondering when (not if) in 20 years there is still no sign of another trilogy, will Mattris's head explode, or will he finally admit he's wrong.

 

We'll see who will be laughing when the Saga continues.

 

I'll agree to admit I was wrong if, in 20 years, there is still no sign of another trilogy. Will you admit you were wrong when it comes much sooner than that?

 

8 hours ago, Datameister said:

I hadn't really experienced the full glory of this thread till very recently. I don't recall being aware of this particular dumpster fire, so it still has novelty for me. It'll wear off fast. In the meantime, I guess it's kinda like … the reality chasm you mentioned is profoundly unfunny to me when it's a topic that truly matters. This is just pure silliness.

 

Mark my words, Star Wars will matter. My contributions to this thread were just the beginnings of the reality that's coming.

 

6 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

How, pray-tell, does this not apply to you as well?

 

Because even if I'm "wrong" canonically, I've gotten more out of Star Wars than so many of this audience who have accepted what seems to be a rather lame, open-ended, morally ambiguous, fantasy story that became popular because it was so impressively produced... and concluded nice and tidily, a happy ending with family and friends hugging. Yay!

 

6 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

You’ve given literally zero room for you to be incorrect about any of this.

 

Indicative of the weakness of your position and evidence.

[Giftheck 916]

10 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Whether or not this is all a troll is beside the point (though, for what it's worth I don't think it's trolling, even if a lot of the "tactics" resemble it). The fact that people continue to give oxygen to this bin fire of a thread is the real concern - this whole thing is a microcosm for the chasm of reality occurring around the world at the moment, and the human compulsion to be entertained by it all. There are no universal truths anymore, shared belief in traditional evidence is disintegrating, the "online" and "real" worlds are becoming more and more detached etc. I decided years ago to no longer engage with Mattriss, but I now won't even be checking in on this thread. What was once amusing is now just more evidence of a troubling social phenomenon that I've been guilty of contributing to with my presence. I know this isn't an airport and I don't need to announce my departure, but for the sake of your own sanity folks, consider doing the same.

 

Can I just bolt on that you can add users to your Ignored Users list, so you won't see anything they post? Probably best you do that.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

19 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

 

Can I just bolt on that you can add users to your Ignored Users list, so you won't see anything they post? Probably best you do that.

I’m well aware, I’ve made liberal use of the feature.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

 

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Indicative of the weakness of your position and evidence.

Indicative of your complete lack of self-awareness and inability to see across to the other side of the argument.
 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Those kisses on the lips did not involve tongue.

 

Are you implying it's perfectly normal with no romantic coding at all to kiss someone on the lips for as long as Leia did? That is...concerning if true. Genuinely braindead take considering Leia does it to make Han (her romantic interest) jealous. Even the original deleted scene shows them playing up the romantic angle between Luke and Leia very explicitly which shows that it was definitely on the table in the creators' heads. Unless they're just really keen on incest, there is absolutely no way that Leia was conceptualized as Luke's sister at the time.

 

 

If you're not a troll then I'd be careful, each stubborn hill you refuse to die on adds up to a list of truly baffling takes that increases the chance of people putting zero faith into what you say at all. "There was no indication of romance between Luke and Leia before ROTJ and also Leia didn't kiss Luke in a romantic way at any point" are one of them.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Because even if I'm "wrong" canonically, I've gotten more out of Star Wars than so many of this audience who have accepted what seems to be a rather lame, open-ended, morally ambiguous, fantasy story that became popular because it was so impressively produced... and concluded nice and tidily, a happy ending with family and friends hugging. Yay!

I've gotten the same thing out of Star Wars and I don't have that mindset towards the franchise at all. So I ask again, how are you any different?

 

[Demodex 557]

I guess I'm confused what the SW movies, novels, and music have anything to do with why Episode X would have to be made in secret, and why they'd pay Trevorrow for a fake script.  It's just not logical. 

 

It's possible that Rian Johnson's trilogy was actually Episodes X-XII, which may or may not ever be made.

If they hire someone else to write Episode X we'll know long before it's released.  There will be merchandising afterall. 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

Wasn't the first thing they said about his dead trilogy that it was completely separate from the main saga (which they later called "the Skywalker Saga", but only because they had to give you a reason to care about Episode 9 last minute)? Then again, you're dealing with a troll who'll probably answer that that was a misdirect too. 

 

Dawg, you should realize who you're dealing with and stop burning up your energy arguing. 

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

They gave 1-9 a name so they could sell a boxset and so they could move on to other projects and away from the ST.

[SilverTrumpet 638]

That's a much more succinct version of what I was trying to say.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said:

 

 

Dawg, you should realize who you're dealing with and stop burning up your energy arguing. 

 

It's literally the only thing he comes to this forum to do, he's just the anti-Mattris.  The proportion of his posts that are just in this thread has to be 90+%, certainly if limited to just the past 4-5 years.

[Tallguy 3,371]

3 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

They gave 1-9 a name so they could sell a boxset and so they could move on to other projects and away from the ST.

 

Has there been a box set? Is that a thing?

[Demodex 557]

54 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

It's literally the only thing he comes to this forum to do, he's just the anti-Mattris.  The proportion of his posts that are just in this thread has to be 90+%, certainly if limited to just the past 4-5 years.

 

Are you talking about me?  😁

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Has there been a box set? Is that a thing?

 

Maybe not yet, but everything in the canon says there will be. My prediction is that it's already prepared and will be released as a big surprise. Mark my words as someone who fully understands SW. 

 

If LFL says there are no plans for a box set, they are obviously lying. The clues are in John William's themes and the ST-era novels.  

 

If you doubt me, you are gravely mistaken and are being played for fools by LFL. 

[Tallguy 3,371]

12 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Maybe not yet, but everything in the canon says there will be. My prediction is that it's already prepared and will be released as a big surprise. Mark my word as someone who fully understands SW. 

 

If LFL says there are no plans for a box set, they are obviously lying. The clues are in John William's themes and the ST-era novels.  

 

If you doubt me, you are gravely mistaken and are being played for fools by LFL. 

 

 

[Giftheck 916]

In seriousness: yes, there is a blu-ray boxset containing all 9 films plus 8 (?) bonus discss filled with deleted scenes and documentaries, and it did say "Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga". Saw it in HMV earlier this month, saw it was £80 and said 'fuck spending that!'

[Chen G. 3,943]

18 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

The fact that people continue to give oxygen to this bin fire of a thread is the real concern - this whole thing is a microcosm for the chasm of reality occurring around the world at the moment, and the human compulsion to be entertained by it all. 

oh hush, you. Just grab a beer/wine/whiskey of your choice and enjoy the show. Its a hoot!

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

@Chen G.,@Demodex& @DarthDementousare really taking it to the Mattrises!

 

Tonight Mattris sleeps with the Gungans.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Ah, finally someone who's in the right spirit for this thread! 

 

[Mattris 416]

On 09/01/2023 at 4:08 AM, DarthDementous said:

Indicative of your complete lack of self-awareness and inability to see across to the other side of the argument.

 

I'm very aware that the other side of the argument assumes Star Wars is currently in a nightmarish state: George Lucas was betrayed, its core story tarnish/ruined/ (always) vapid, with the IP's current handlers churning out inconsistent product.

 

On 09/01/2023 at 4:08 AM, DarthDementous said:

Are you implying it's perfectly normal with no romantic coding at all to kiss someone on the lips for as long as Leia did? That is...concerning if true. Genuinely braindead take considering Leia does it to make Han (her romantic interest) jealous. Even the original deleted scene shows them playing up the romantic angle between Luke and Leia very explicitly which shows that it was definitely on the table in the creators' heads. Unless they're just really keen on incest, there is absolutely no way that Leia was conceptualized as Luke's sister at the time.

 

Of course there's a way. George Lucas called Star Wars a "soap opera", as one of its defining features was exploring familial issues, unknowing sibling kisses included. No, I'm not "implying it's perfectly normal". But it sure made things interesting and unpredictable, didn't it?

 

Oh, and didn't I say that "There was no indication of romance between Luke and Leia before ROTJ and also Leia didn't kiss Luke in a romantic way at any point". I didn't even imply it. Of course, there was a hint of romance between Luke and Leia before ROTJ. But Leia said "I love you" to Han, who got the girl in the end.

 

On 09/01/2023 at 4:08 AM, DarthDementous said:

If you're not a troll then I'd be careful, each stubborn hill you refuse to die on adds up to a list of truly baffling takes that increases the chance of people putting zero faith into what you say at all.

 

On what hills should I have died? Based on what specific evidence? I say you have been 'baffled'... more than you can possibly imagine.

 

I wasn't seeking people putting faith into what I say. I was merely making my case - with real evidence - and debating with those who disagree. I held firm and put forth a more substantive and optimistic case than anyone on 'the disenchanted side'.

 

On 09/01/2023 at 4:08 AM, DarthDementous said:

I've gotten the same thing out of Star Wars and I don't have that mindset towards the franchise at all. So I ask again, how are you any different?

 

My knowledge and point of view makes me different than the vast majority of Star Wars fans. What mindset do you have towards the franchise?

 

On 09/01/2023 at 4:09 AM, Demodex said:

I guess I'm confused what the SW movies, novels, and music have anything to do with why Episode X would have to be made in secret, and why they'd pay Trevorrow for a fake script.  It's just not logical.

 

Like I said, one discovery and realization led to another. Trust that all I have theorized is based in literal excerpts of the Star Wars movies, novels, and music. It is logical from a certain point of view.

 

On 09/01/2023 at 6:36 AM, SilverTrumpet said:

Wasn't the first thing they said about his dead trilogy that it was completely separate from the main saga (which they later called "the Skywalker Saga", but only because they had to give you a reason to care about Episode 9 last minute)? Then again, you're dealing with a troll who'll probably answer that that was a misdirect too. 

 

Indeed, the name "the Skywalker Saga" was a misdirect. Once the saga has truly completed, I predict it will revert back to being called "The Star Wars Saga".

 

On 09/01/2023 at 6:40 AM, A. A. Ron said:

They gave 1-9 a name so they could sell a boxset and so they could move on to other projects and away from the ST.

 

Yes to the first part. But all roads lead to the sequel trilogy... and beyond.

 

On 09/01/2023 at 10:43 AM, Chen G. said:

oh hush, you. Just grab a beer/wine/whiskey of your choice and enjoy the show. Its a hoot!

 

Why don't you move the show along, Chen. Address my point that, in the original film, Darth Vader sounded like he was wearing a respirator, unlike the silent-helmeted Stormtroopers.

[greenturnedblue 372]

what a terrible day to be literate

[Datameister 2,037]

[Demodex 557]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

Like I said, one discovery and realization led to another. Trust that all of what I have theorized in based in literal excerpts of the SW movies, novels, and music. All of what I have supposed is logical from a certain point of view

 

This is utter bullshit, and you know it. If it wasn't you'd explain why Episode X has to be kept secret. 

If there is ever an Episode X, I guarantee we know about it before it's filmed.  One big reason for this is marketing and merchandising. 

I call your bluff. If you don't PM me why you think Episode X has to be a secret (which you won't), I'll know you're just a troll. 

[Schilkeman 955]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

My knowledge and point of view makes me different than the vast majority of Star Wars fans. What mindset do you have towards the franchise?

I used to teach a domestic violence rehabilitation program. It was my father-in-law's class, a former abuser himself who devoted his every waking moment for 30+ thinking about how and why people abuse, and refining his program until it had THE lowest recidivism rate of any program in the country. And you know what? Every singe week we would get new guys in who were convinced, within the first week or two of a six-month program, that they knew more than him, and that they alone were the geniuses who were going to bring the logic of this course crashing down.

 

There are people on some other forums I frequent, who have been thinking about and watching Star Wars longer than you've been alive. I myself have been doing so for over twenty years, but yes, you are the beautiful mind who thinks more deeply, more profoundly, more insightfully than anyone else. You alone have sussed out the hidden palaces of complexity and nuance. Clearly, we are all fools.

 

If we give you a trophy for winning, will you go away? I have a JarJar lollipop from 1999. It's yours.

[greenturnedblue 372]

The book 'Game Misconduct' by Russ Conway is about a hockey game that got too physical, and one of the players was charged with Assault, here in Canada. The book follows the courtroom drama following the incident, like the film A Few Good Men. On Page 318, Conway writes:

 

Quote

Mike Robitaille limped across the courtroom to testify on his own behalf.
He made a compelling witness, speaking in great swelling rushes of
sentences, the words tumbling over one another. Mike was eager after
years of frustration to get out his version of all that had happened to him.
He began with his earliest ambitions: "I knew I had to do well because I saw
my dad and I didn't want to have the life he led. I was going to be a special
player because that was my only way out." And he didn't finish, after
almost three days of testimony, until he'd reached the circumstances of the
end of his life in the NHL: "Nobody, not management, wants to listen to
stuff about injuries. Just win the hockey games and tell me your excuses
afterwards. You're getting paid a lot of money. You should be able to
perform like the Almighty out there."

As Robitaille spoke, and Isabel and the doctors and players and
sportscasters, a piece of magic unfolded in Mr. Justice Esson's courtroom,
no less dazzling because of its familiarity. It happens in all courtrooms in all
trials when gifted counsel are at work, the magical transformation of cold
facts into a tale as gripping as a piece of fiction. Characters emerge, heroes
and villains and innocent bystanders, and the elements of story-telling fall
into place, cohesion and plot development, a climax that's logical and
human. The story comes in many voices and falls from a variety of points of
view, and yet one man, the counsel, arranges the sequence of paragraphs
and chapters. He asks the questions that evoke the answering lines, but in
the end, the questions are rubbed out, and all that remains is the flow of
the narrative, the story in its simplicity and drama. 

 

Conway said this a lot better than I could. If only Mattris would present his argument in such a way as to elicit a magic transformation of 'cold facts into a tale as gripping as a piece of fiction'. I can see what he's trying to get at but his method is not working. What his rants lack is cohesion, logical continuity and climax, use of different perspectives and voices. And lastly arranging it all into a sequence of events that someone can read, follow along with, and most importantly understand.

 

Saying "I posted it several months/years/decades ago!" or "It's in the films/books, you just dont understand" does not help prove anything. In fact it makes that sort of argument less reliable, because the evidence is not presented properly. In court, that kind of here-say or circumstantial evidence does not amount to anything, because nothing has been proven 

 

Currently this whole thing comes across like the 'Darth Jar Jar' theory, something not grounded in reality. Which is a shame, because there are a few (very few) of Mattris' points that I actually do agree with

[Mattris 416]

19 hours ago, Demodex said:

This is utter bullshit, and you know it. If it wasn't you'd explain why Episode X has to be kept secret. 

If there is ever an Episode X, I guarantee we know about it before it's filmed.  One big reason for this is marketing and merchandising. 

I call your bluff. If you don't PM me why you think Episode X has to be a secret (which you won't), I'll know you're just a troll. 

 

I told you long ago, Demodex: I will never PM you about this topic. Please stop asking.

 

Episode X is not expected by the audience because everyone knows that Rey Palpatine "Mary Sue" Skywalker was the victor, along with her new friends/family. Emperor Palpatine was destroyed by one of his own relatives. "It's ironic."  THE END

 

But the fact is, Palpatine was 'killed' by his apprentice decades prior after demanding he be struck down, and the saga continued with Episode VII. Based on this simple logic, Episode X should be expected.

 

But making X's (planned) existence publicly known - including the making/release of the film with a lead time of years - would ruin any possible shock factor. What little hype for the film (another sequel movie, ugh!!) would diminish/die long before the film premiered.

 

For the likeliest probability of 'surprise', filming X with IX would have been ideal. If accomplished, X could be released anytime, with a marketing/merchandising campaign customized to the film's release.

 

17 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

There are people on some other forums I frequent, who have been thinking about and watching Star Wars longer than you've been alive. I myself have been doing so for over twenty years, but yes, you are the beautiful mind who thinks more deeply, more profoundly, more insightfully than anyone else. You alone have sussed out the hidden palaces of complexity and nuance. Clearly, we are all fools.

 

If we give you a trophy for winning, will you go away? I have a JarJar lollipop from 1999. It's yours.

 

Well, you don't know exactly what  I've sussed out. But yes, I have perceived "hidden palaces of complexity and nuance."  George Lucas told Vanity Fair in 2005:

 

"The interesting thing about Star Wars - and I didn't ever really push this very far, because it's not really that important - but there's a lot going on there that most people haven't come to grips with yet. But when they do, they will find it's a much more intricately made clock that most people would imagine."

 

So no, I decline your JarJar lollipop trophy and will remain here. Eventually, I might be able to help you come to grips with how much went on in Star Wars.

 

17 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Conway said this a lot better than I could. If only Mattris would present his argument in such a way as to elicit a magic transformation of 'cold facts into a tale as gripping as a piece of fiction'. I can see what he's trying to get at but his method is not working. What his rants lack is cohesion, logical continuity and climax, use of different perspectives and voices. And lastly arranging it all into a sequence of events that someone can read, follow along with, and most importantly understand.

 

Saying "I posted it several months/years/decades ago!" or "It's in the films/books, you just dont understand" does not help prove anything. In fact it makes that sort of argument less reliable, because the evidence is not presented properly. In court, that kind of here-say or circumstantial evidence does not amount to anything, because nothing has been proven 

 

Currently this whole thing comes across like the 'Darth Jar Jar' theory, something not grounded in reality. Which is a shame, because there are a few (very few) of Mattris' points that I actually do agree with

 

In this thread, my intent was not to "prove" anything regarding the future of Star Wars. As evidenced by my past posts, I constructed some intriguing theories - that most here rejected - though some were proven accurate in Episode IX. Since then, I have refined my theories and predictions, which have always been based in the canon and works from which George Lucas drew inspiration.

 

But I am not a Lucasfilm insider. I am not privy to secret information. I'm just a fan, one who is a natural problem/puzzle solver who thinks he's figured it out. 

 

Asking me to present my evidence properly is fair. You astutely described what I would need to produce to make my case fully. While I could do this, it really would be too much - in many senses - and I have a feeling Lucasfilm's presentation will be far more entertaining and ultimately satisfying. No need to potentially spoil things in a single forum post here and now. I think I've gone as far as I'm willing to go. I also think that, in the end, most here will be glad I didn't go further.

 

 

 

Russ Conway clearly understands what makes a great story. Trust that Star Wars will become one. It's really a mythology... one that has not reached its end.

 

In truth, it's not even close.

[Schilkeman 955]

30 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Eventually, I might be able to help you come to grips with how much went on in Star Wars.

Your comprehension of what I actually said seems commensurate with the theories you espouse here. This will be my final post in this thread until I see you are no longer here. It's a fool's errand, and I've wasted too much energy on it already. I'm gonna go talk about music, the reason I joined these forums in the first place.

[Demodex 557]

If Palpatine can't properly die, then I guess the saga can go on forever.

Instead of a Skywalker saga we'll have a Friday the 13th scenario, where the movies get worse and worse.  

Yay.

[mstrox 6,647]

Uhhhhh buddy, I’ll allow whatever Star Wars slander you all have in here, but how can you say the Friday the 13th movies get worse and worse when the undisputed best movie in the series is the SIXTH entry?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Wake me up when Star Wars gets an Alice Cooper theme song

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

Uhhhhh buddy, I’ll allow whatever Star Wars slander you all have in here, but how can you say the Friday the 13th movies get worse and worse when the undisputed best movie in the series is the SIXTH entry?

 

So like SW, they should have stopped at #6.  😛

[SilverTrumpet 638]

4 hours ago, mstrox said:

Uhhhhh buddy, I’ll allow whatever Star Wars slander you all have in here, but how can you say the Friday the 13th movies get worse and worse when the undisputed best movie in the series is the SIXTH entry?

 

Well, Star Wars's best one was the sixth too.

[Tallguy 3,371]

22 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

 

Well, Star Wars's best one was the sixth too.

 

I can't come up with a way of counting Star Wars movies where that makes sense.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,498]

You tell 'em, @Tallguy.

Which sixth are we talking about?

[SilverTrumpet 638]

7 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

I can't come up with a way of counting Star Wars movies where that makes sense.

 

1. Star Wars

2. The Holiday Special

3. The Empire Strikes Back

4. Return of the Jedi

5. Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure

6. Ewoks: The Battle for Endor

 

Obviously. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

5 hours ago, SilverTrumpet said:

5. Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure

6. Ewoks: The Battle for Endor. 

Might as well count both of them as “5. Willow.”

[Giftheck 916]

Guys, it was all planned from the start!

 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

Mudscuffers, pooda and Taungsdays!

 

Am I the only one who’s not enjoying Mando? S01 was great, but now - currently finished S03E03 - I think it has become poorly written to the point where it’s even boring.

 

Am I alone in this?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, rough cut said:

Mudscuffers, pooda and Taungsdays!

 

Am I the only one who’s not enjoying Mando? S01 was great, but now - currently finished S03E03 - I think it has become poorly written to the point where it’s even boring.

 

Am I alone in this?

You are definitely not alone. A big chunk of the most recent episode felt like a poor man's Andor and gave me even more appreciation for the deft way in which they handled unseen and 'mundane' facets of the Star Wars universe without it feeling really off like it did here

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

Seasons 1 and 2 are all you need.

[Tallguy 3,371]

3 hours ago, rough cut said:

Mudscuffers, pooda and Taungsdays!

 

Am I the only one who’s not enjoying Mando? S01 was great, but now - currently finished S03E03 - I think it has become poorly written to the point where it’s even boring.

 

Am I alone in this?

 

Yup. I didn't like this episode as much as the last two. But it was still good.

[rough cut 1,714]

I feel that it has the potential to be good, an unfulfilled promise.

 

I’ll keep watching, hopeful.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

On 15/03/2023 at 10:35 PM, rough cut said:

Mudscuffers, pooda and Taungsdays!

 

Am I the only one who’s not enjoying Mando? S01 was great, but now - currently finished S03E03 - I think it has become poorly written to the point where it’s even boring.

 

Am I alone in this?

Season 1 pretty well written and overall great. Season 2 had some good ideas but was so poorly written that I gave up the show before the end. I'll give another shot to S3 but apparently it doesn't look very promising.

[Jay 37,287]

So far I think season 3 of Mando is better than season 2 AINEC

[rough cut 1,714]

TBH, I cannot remember much about S02, except that I didn’t think it was very good. I think, in my mind, it’s mingled with the Boba Fett show.

 

While not as good as S01, Mandalorian is entertaining at least, both S02 (I guess it was?) and S03 (so far). That, no one can take away from it.

 

I’m just not happy about the overall direction and inconsistencies.

The Grogu problem

Imagine if Disney had had the balls to actually drop Grogu of the show. I know “baby Yoda” was a big part of the show’s success, but the end of S01 really felt conclusive and logical. Which made it all the more heartfelt.

 

Then would come a couple of seasons/shows/years without him - Mando could do his own thing, Andor could come and go, we got the Kenobi spin off, Ashoka gets her own show… and then, imagine how bad ass (!) it would be when Grogu shows up again, half way point to becoming a Jedi. You could mirror Luke’s journey where he’d have to step in to save the galaxy (with Mando, naturally) even though his training isn’t complete. “It’s poetry, it rhymes” as some would say.

 

I guess, in the meantime, up until that point, Grogu could have his own animated show or whatever - so as not to completely fall out of the zeitgeist.

 

The Mandalorian problem

Was it at the end of Boba Fett that Mando was standing on a spaceship, talking with another Mandalorian, concluding “There’s only three of us now”… ?

 

…and then, at the beginning of S03, there’s a whole cult of them - even children joining the cult - all still remembering and practicing the ancient rites. Huh?

 

Itd have been much cooler- and in line with the character - to have Mando cruise the galaxy in search of an ancient ritual where he’s tempted to sell out old Mandalorian secrets in return for the magic/technology/understand it contains. There, you’d have a moral conundrum - and most likely character growth as well.

 

Instead we get this existing community, and Mando has to perform a swim to be included. Why?  There’s no physical harm coming to him if he doesn’t. The cult seemed quite happy to have him lounging around without the swim. The swim - in ritual - doesn’t grant him access to any key that is in any way a remedy other than “I really want to be a Mandalorian”. Sigh. Why should we care? There’s no urgency.

 

His adventures could still include the clone story on Coruscant and the dark saber - and maaaaaybe another reclusive Mandalorian in a distant part of the galaxy, an old man, hinting at the downfall of Mandalore, maybe insinuate that the fall wasn’t such a bad thing at all, urging Mando to let it go. Another conundrum!

And that’s just off the top of my head!

 

So, to summarize

1. Mando should’ve never returned for Grogu, it makes more sense for both characters to go their separate ways.

2. There shouldn’t have been a community of Mandalorians.

3. Find a better (urgent!) reason for Mando to fill the plot, not taking a vanity swim.

4. Bring back Grogu when he can be relevant again (and yes, I get that maybe/probably…

 

Spoiler

…he is “needed” in S03, so the evil scientist guy will get his hands on Grogu in order to sample his DNA to create Snoke, but is that really essential to the story? Write a better, smarter way around it. That’s what good writers get paid to do.)

 

[Mattris 416]

Through The Empire Strikes Back, Luke is learning to be a Jedi, but it’s not something that you just pick in 10 minutes. The whole idea is it’s very hard to learn to be a Jedi.

 

A lot of people get confused about the Force. They see it as some special thing that you can find and pick up and put it on your head and suddenly you have the Force. Whereas it’s always been designed so that every [living] being has the Force.

 

The amount of Force, which is like talent or intelligence, is different in every person. Some of it is inherited, but it’s no more than a talent. It’s not something you can acquire – it’s something you can learn to use. I have the power to lift that cup off the table using the Force, but I can’t do it unless I have been trained to do it.

 

– George Lucas

 

(from darksiderconfessions.blog)

 

 

From wikipedia:

 

In 1981, Lucas compared using the Force to yoga, saying any character can use its power. Dave Filoni said in 2015 that all Star Wars characters are "Force intuitive": some characters, like Luke Skywalker, are aware of their connection to the Force, while characters such as Han Solo draw upon the Force unconsciously. Filoni said the most potent Force users are characters whose midi-chlorian count provides a natural affinity for using the Force and who undertake intense training and discipline.

 

 

 

From inverse.com:

 

According to numerous sources, but most notably, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, in George Lucas’ second draft for Star Wars, he defined The Force of Others as “an energy field...that influenced the destiny of all living creatures.” This Force was split into two para-forces... concepts [that] would become “the Light Side” and “the Dark Side.”

 

 

 

My interpretation:

 

The Force was not fully understood by any character in Star Wars, individuals who, by 'using the Force', took advantage the power or special abilities it provided, knowingly or unknowingly.

 

The Force is not a power one can possess. But people always have free will: the power to choose.

[Nick1Ø66 4,688]

I've always interpreted The Force as being something that runs through everyone, but that some beings are better able to channel the powers of The Force than others (and even those people need training to fully utilise those powers). Something that's very born out in the films, given that the only people who have used The Force are Jedi, former Jedi, family of Jedi & Sith Lords (Rian Johnson's slave boy notwithstanding).

[Mattris 416]

The final scene in TLJ was further evidence that all characters in Star Wars have the Force. Some just more obviously 'use' it.