Star Wars Disenchantment

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You can't stop the change. Any more than you can stop the people you care for... from dying.

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

 

Many of the "idiot" fans voiced their complaints and were dismissed and accused of being ignorant, racist, and sexist by Lucasfilm employees. (FYI, I'm putting together a compilation of evidence.)

 

If Lucasfilm continues to ignore the fans, their business will continue to drop. This has been happening since TLJ... and will continue to happen until changes are made.

 

Go away!!!!

[Mattris 416]

Nick created this discussion "as a place for people with SWD to air their grievances, find solace and community with fellow sufferers, and for those without SWD to air their own voice, if they're so inclined. We're all about tearing down walls here."

 

Being rude will never convince someone to do want you want. If you can't be civil, you are free to leave... or just sit back and watch.

[Mattris 416]

On 01/06/2018 at 10:43 PM, Indianagirl said:

 

There has been some of that and I think it's unfortunate and just has added fuel to the fire. However, in their defense the "complaint's" lodged were often so ridiculous in nature that many of these employees were dumbfounded. I seem to remember that being the case on more than one occasion with Pablo Hidalgo. 

 

I'm not convinced the boycott has anything to do with Solo under performing. I'm willing to be wrong on this but I really don't think the boycott has made even a small dent in the numbers.

 

Employees insulting and accusing consumers is incredibly unprofessional... and will affect your business negatively as word gets around. Mr. Hidalgo needs to be let go, as well.

 

On 01/06/2018 at 10:49 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

Memorial Day weekend is notorious for making moves flop. That mixed with the fact that not too many people were enthusiastic about a Solo film due to the media constantly reporting productions troubles I'm willing to be is why it under performed. I doubt the TLJ haters and boycotters even made a dent in ticket sales either. It's just a coincidence.

 

Not even a small dent? What's happening is obvious. The "boycott" and high percentage of disappointed TLJ audience members are the main causes for Solo's under-performance. There is no "coincidence" linked to Memorial Day. Those other Memorial Day 'flop' movies were not good... and not Star Wars. The OT and PT films didn't flop on Memorial Day. An extremely low percentage of the general public was aware of Solo's productions troubles.

 

How could a vocal minority negatively affect a Star Wars film this dramatically at the box office? (Solo made less than half the intake of Rouge One in its opening weekend.) Answer: The disgruntled fans are not as much of a minority as you would like to believe. And word of Lucasfilm's failures is only spreading.

 

On 01/06/2018 at 10:30 PM, Demodex said:

I'm still waiting for an answer about why it bothers him so much that there are female lead characters. 

 

Female lead characters do not bother me in the slightest. However, I do have a problem with poorly written characters (male or female) and a poorly written stories, especially in Star Wars.

 

In TLJ, women were made to look 'strong' primarily because all of the film's men were supremely flawed or weak.

 

On 01/06/2018 at 10:12 PM, Indianagirl said:

 

Kitten,

This is why I don't respect you. You make a false statement and someone comes along who unequivocally demonstrates it to be so and you respond as if it had never happened. You will literally say anything to keep your false narrative alive. Including when you attempted to suggest that passing judgement on child slavery was a kind of social justice moment that something like Star Wars shouldn't pass judgement on because it might be too preachy and make certain people uncomftorable. That was the moment I lost all respect for you. 

 

As for George not approving of Disney's material. First of all it's no longer his to approve or disprove of. He willingly sold the franchise with the intention they continue to build off of his canon. Secondly there is little evidence he doesn't largely approve of what Disney is doing. George did have an issue with the sequel trilogy not being about the twins but it remains to be seen if they will end up brother and sister. I personally think they will but who outside of Lucasfilm knows? He would have asthetically made Force Awakens look differently than it does  but then again it's no longer his to make. We know that he liked Rogue One and Solo a lot. Solo was the one stand alone film that we know he wanted them to do. He was complimentary toward TLJ and I know of no actual quote to dispute that. 

 

So when you say George didn't approve of this Disney material not only is that not entirely accurate it also misses the point. You continually grasp at straws to keep your hateful agenda alive. That's not going to bring me to your side. 

 

You've misunderstood my stance on child slavery. Please allow me to clarify. Star Wars (or any movie, for that matter) should never ask its audience to "pass judgement on child slavery" because people know that it's wrong. Having child slavery in a movie - even a Star Wars movie - isn't wrong. What many disapprove of is the fact child slavery (and many other plot-points) was poorly integrated into the story. (Does the novelization confirm the children were slaves?) If they were, why did Rose and Finn choose to 'save' horses instead of the kids? Stupid.

 

The old novels/comics were official Star Wars material. But I was not aware that George Lucas did not classify them as part of his universe.

If George Lucas "sold the franchise with the intention they continue to build off of his canon", he was lied to. Check out this video (starting at 2:15) for a very telling interview compilation.

 

There is little evidence George approves of what Disney is doing. All he said about TLJ was that it was "beautifully made". He said about the same thing about Rogue One. In an interview about the The Force Awakens, he called Disney "white slavers" and looked genuinely sad at its movie premiere. He has not been openly praiseworthy of the films.

 

Indianagirl, it's you who are "continually grasping at straws" to keep your (denial) agenda alive. I do not "hate" anyone. But I cannot deny what's happening. I'm not looking for your "respect" and will never respect anyone who addresses me as "Kitten" or speaks to me in a insulting, condescending, demeaning tone. Has that worked for you in the past?

 

Internet movie critic (and Star Wars fan) Jeremy Jahns explains his observations on the status of Star Wars. And even Star Wars mega-fan John Campea is jumping off of the sinking ship that is Kathleen Kennedy's reign over Lucasfilm. (I linked to Jahns' and Campea's latest YouTube videos, in which they fairly assess the current situation. Please watch them.)

[Chen G. 3,949]

On 2.6.2018 at 10:33 AM, Mattris said:

There is little evidence George approves of what Disney is doing.

 

The notion that Star Wars = George Lucas' vision is somewhat misguided. Yes, he created the original film and the prequel trilogy, but he didn't write nor direct Empire Strikes Back (the best entry of the series), and only co-wrote Return of the Jedi.

 

On 2.6.2018 at 10:33 AM, Mattris said:

Like it or not, my "narrative" is alive and well. Internet movie critic (and Star Wars fan) Jeremy Jahns explains his observations on the status of Star Wars. And even Star Wars mega-fan John Campea is jumping off of the sinking ship that is Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm reign.

 

It should be said that more often than not these YouTube "critics" aren't particularly well versed in film criticism. They're just well spoken film-nerds. It doesn't make their views invaluable, but it should always be taken into account when listening to them.

 

On 2.6.2018 at 4:41 AM, Indianagirl said:

So you acknowledge there could be a master plan.

 

No, there isn't one.

 

There never was, for any of the Star Wars trilogies. The closest is the prequels, but even that didn't go much deeper than "Anakin falls in love with queen Padme against the will of the Jedi order; and in trying to save her from a forseeable death, he throws his lot with Palpatine (now discovered to be the Sith Lord), kills the Jedi, becomes Darth Vader and inadvertently becomes the instrument of Padme's death and the fall of the republic. He fights his former master Obi Wan on a lava planet and is defeated, his scorched body inserted into the Vader suit."

 

But in screenwriting, the devil's in the details, and those weren't in place until the screen-writing of each of the individual films.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They just make this shit up as they go along.

[publicist 4,643]

Isn't there an UN mandate against this?

[Indianagirl 298]

6 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

You've misunderstood my stance on child slavery. Please allow me to clarify. Star Wars (or any movie, for that matter) should never ask its audience to "pass judgement on child slavery" because people know that it's wrong. Having child slavery in a movie - even a Star Wars movie - isn't wrong. What many disapprove of is the fact child slavery (and many other plot-points) was poorly integrated into the story.

 

There you go Mansplaining to me again. You made a perfectly clear statement in another thread that completely contradicts your above comment and because I dared to hold You to Your own words You had to Mansplain me by telling me I've misunderstood. Clearly You think I'm not intelligent enough to remember your original statement. 

 

Here is your original statement...

 

"But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong."

 

You clearly reduced forced child labor to a common little SJW and informed us all that it does not belong in Star Wars. I don't believe for one second you actually think forced child labor is okay but it shows you are willing to say anything to press your agenda. This is why most people don't take you seriously. Because that is not a tactic pulled by a serious person. You don't want to be like that, Kitten.

 

 

 

[publicist 4,643]

This is like saying people don't take Trump seriously only because his hair looks fake. 

[Indianagirl 298]

44 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

No, there isn't one.

 

There never was, for any of the Star Wars trilogies. The closest is the prequels, but even that didn't go much deeper than "Anakin falls in love with Padme against the will of the Jedi order; and in trying to save her from a forseeable death, he throws his lot with Palpatine (now discovered to be the Sith Lord), kills the Jedi, becomes Darth Vader and inadvertently becomes the instrument of Padme's death. He fights his former master Obi Wan and is defeated."

 

But in screenwriting, the devil's in the details, and those weren't in place until the screen-writing of each of the individual films.

 

There is truth in that but there are over riding story and character elements that are set in stone for all three trilogies. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

19 minutes ago, publicist said:

This is like saying people don't take Trump seriously only because his hair looks fake. 

 

His hair is real. He just likes combing it weird.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Female lead characters do not bother me in the slightest. However, I do have a problem with poorly written characters (male or female) and a poorly written stories, especially in Star Wars.

 

In TLJ, women were made to look 'strong' primarily because all of the film's men were supremely flawed or weak

 

We will have to agree to disagree because I don't think TFA or TLJ were poorly written or had poorly written characters.  If you think TLJ was poorly written but AOTC wasn't, then I can't help you.  😞

 

All of the male characters were weak and flawed?  Your opinion. I don't see that.  Even if it was true, I'm not threatened by women. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, Demodex said:

Even if it was true, I'm not threatened by women. 

 

Really? They can be fuckin' frightening sometimes.

 

 

[mstrox 6,651]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

Employees insulting and accusing consumers is incredibly unprofessional... and will affect your business negatively as word gets around. Mr. Hidalgo needs to be let go, as well.

 

 

Not even a small dent? What's happening is obvious. The "boycott" and high percentage of disappointed TLJ audience members are the main causes for Solo's under-performance.

 

In regards to 1), I see that you’re compiling data!  Neat!  Make sure you include the tweets/threads they were replying to.  I’d be interested in seeing if Lucasfilm employees (from their non-Lucasfilm-affiliated accounts) call somebody sexist or racist for an actual film criticism, and not just for saying something sexist or racist!

 

in regards to 2), I think that’s really overselling the idea that the boycotters are important. I also don’t necessarily agree with hand-waving anything based on Memorial Day.  There are all sorts of reasons why a movie doesn’t match expectations, and simple answers are probably the best ones.

 

Were expectations too high to begin with?  If they hadn’t had to course correct, this would have been a “low budget” Star Wars movie, and that opening weekend would have been very cozy.

 

Did the normies not care about Solo?  I wager that’s the biggest.  My spouse didn’t want to see it, so I went alone.  One of the five people I eat lunch with at work didn’t like it, and the other four don’t plan on seeing it.  Here are some of the things they talked about yesterday:  “The trailers don’t look good.” “I’m kind of Star Warsed out.” “It’s one I’ll just wait to see on Netflix,” “I like the main ones because I like Rey, but I’m not really a Star Wars person.” 

 

The last one was my spouse btw.  All of them liked-to-loved The Last Jedi (I’ve still never met anyone face to face who flipped their kid about TLJ) and none of them are the type of person who follows entertainment news or RottenTomatoes scores or dumb fan fights.

 

So if that’s an accurate sample of what is BY FAR the largest portion of the movie audience (randos who don’t keep up with movie news and just see movies) lacks a driving interest in seeing this for numerous reasons.

 

And then there are the few hundred guys with angry Twitter accounts and YouTube channels, and if they didn’t buy tickets (although I’m not sure how they have such specific complaints if they didn’t), that affected it too.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Ohmigosh.

 

I leave this thread for the night and all the SW fans on these forums blow it up in a few hours. 

 

SW fans are not one subjunctive whole. I consider myself a peaceful supporter of all the films, even though I may kick the bucket before we get to the Beinoff Weiss trilogy. Many of my friends are similar. They like them for the same reason anyone liked SW to begin with. It's a magical space opera that captures so many different views and tones. Hell, it can expand as much as it wants under whoever it wants.

 

Other fans are complete nerds. They're not bad all the time, but I always end up sitting beside them in the theatre. It sucks.

 

Some fans are purists. The like the OT, and now only go to these movies to criticize and crush them without going into the movies with an open mind. @Mattris you're view seems quite narrow minded. I feel you go into these movies constantly thinking about the women in and behind the movie, instead of embracing there's and others roles. I'm not going to start with feminism and sexism, but I think the women in these movies are good for the franchise. If they are made as some sort of movement for females, fine. But as a male I have no problem with them. Heck, there are still plenty more of inspiring male roles in SW. There has been no tip in the balance of this stuff.

 

I know I amongst others here are going to watch all these movies. I may not like them as much as others, but so far I accept all of them. It would take something incredibly stupid to sway my opinion.

 

JJ has IX under control. I like his style better, but I applaud Rian for his gutsy moves. You will get a wonderful close to the saga, unless of course you continue to uphold your narrow opinion and senseless accusations. I get Kennedy is president, but how much do you think she does directly in these movies. The directors and writers and producers all shape these movies too, not just Kennedy.

 

Now if we could all shut up, I believe we can get back to some real talk elsewhere.

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Crikey one of the reasons I come here is because we mostly avoid this crap.

 

All sides, please, take this elsewhere.

 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

6 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Crikey one of the reasons I come here is because we mostly avoid this crap.

 

All sides, please, take this elsewhere.

 

 

Hello, Nick, welcome to the quarantine support group, glad you could join us. Would you like some lemon-kiwi-strawberry infused water? It's got plenty of Vitamin C and cleansing antioxidants.

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

I'm here by accident, I was looking for the Tauriel thread.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I'm here by accident, I was looking for the Tauriel thread.

 

What  the fuck don't bring your stupid ass Hobbit shrinkadink crap in here  Thank you for your contribution, Nick: by design or serendipity, all blessed people who enter the SWD Support Group are welcomed and cherished.

[Mattris 416]

On 02/06/2018 at 4:21 AM, Indianagirl said:

 

There you go Mansplaining to me again. You made a perfectly clear statement in another thread that completely contradicts your above comment and because I dared to hold You to Your own words You had to Mansplain me by telling me I've misunderstood. Clearly You think I'm not intelligent enough to remember your original statement. 

 

Here is your original statement...

 

"But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong."

 

You clearly reduced forced child labor to a common little SJW and informed us all that it does not belong in Star Wars. I don't believe for one second you actually think forced child labor is okay but it shows you are willing to say anything to press your agenda. This is why most people don't take you seriously. Because that is not a tactic pulled by a serious person. You don't want to be like that, Kitten.

 

 

 

 

I misspoke when I said that forced child labor is SJW and does not belong in Star Wars. The next sentence of my original statement: "The Canto Bight getaway (and other scenes involving Rose and Holdo) wouldn't have been so awkward had the film-makers been more subtle about their agenda - or had expertly written the story/script."

 

EDIT -- What I should have said: If that crap (that is Canto Bight) was meant to depict 'forced child labor', it failed miserably since Rose and Finn didn't even try to save the kids, choosing instead to 'rescue' the racing horses. And most fans would agree that painfully self-righteous, horribly-written, and irrelevant plot lines do not belong in Star Wars films."

 

Being shocked, disappointed, upset by the identity politics agenda writing in TLJ  is not a "tactic". I do not have an agenda except wanting Star Wars films that are well-crafted and honor the characters and stories in the previous trilogies. TLJ didn't even honor TFA. It should have been an easy lay-up, with the majority of the story set-up and character introductions out of the way. Instead, TLJ took a massive crap on it. Many of the fans realize this and have voiced their displeasure by skipping Solo.

 

It's your choice whether or not to take me - and people like me - "seriously". But the backlash (to what people perceive is happening with Star Wars) is real. If you really think that I'm part of a "vocal minority" that didn't make "even a small dent in [Solo's] numbers", then we will have to agree to disagree.

 

In the Solo thread, you said that you were "done" arguing with me. Yet you chose to migrate over here to continue arguing, using an obviously derogatory tone. While I would like to discuss the current state of Star Wars with anyone who is willing, any messages addressing me as "Kitten" will be completely ignored.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

...or, we could accept the story for what it is, and the characters for what they are.

Personally, I see no SJW/#metoo agendum in TLJ. I see only male and female characters, and situations,  that I like.

Need I remind JWfaners of what sex Mon Mothma - the leader of the rebellion - is?

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Given Anakin's origins, I'm not sure we can say that "forced child labor" doesn't belong in Star Wars.

 

 

[Mattris 416]

Ignorance is bliss, I guess. But Star Wars is not "just a movie" as some keep saying. It's a cultural phenomenon, cherished by hundreds of millions of people. And many of them are upset that the people in charge of making these new movies have an agenda more than just telling a fun, dramatic story set "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away". It's sad and unfortunate that so many that don't notice the identity politics and lazy story-telling.

 

Anyone that seriously thinks that I am somehow upset that the leader of the Rebellion was a woman is completely missing my point.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I don’t mind those types of things unless they tip over into the ridiculous, which Disney’s Star Wars still hasn’t, and probably won’t ever.

 

When we hear about equality-of-outcome in Star Wars - that’s when we know stuff is getting out of hand. We’re far from that, though. There are female characters, yes, but it’s far from 50/50.

[John 2,032]

55 minutes ago, Mattris said:

TLJ didn't even honor TFA. It should have been an easy lay-up, with the majority of the story set-up and character introductions out of the way. Instead, TLJ took a massive crap on it.

 

Please, explain to me how TLJ disregarded specific plot points that TFA set up. I have yet to see anyone give a valid explanation for this claim.

 

Abrams was executive producer for TLJ. It's not like Johnson stole all the toys from the sandbox and played with them by himself. Abrams, Kennedy, the story group; all of them were on board with what Johnson was doing, or they would've ousted him like they did with Trevorrow.

[Chen G. 3,949]

There are times where it feels like it parodizes or at least pokes fun at Star Wars, which I guess is what people that are enamored with the franchise take issue with.

[Bespin 8,480]

"A long time ago, in a continuity far far away" means everything.

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

13 minutes ago, John said:

 

Please, explain to me how TLJ disregarded specific plot points that TFA set up. I have yet to see anyone give a valid explanation for this claim.

 

Abrams was executive producer for TLJ. It's not like Johnson stole all the toys from the sandbox and played with them by himself. Abrams, Kennedy, the story group; all of them were on board with what Johnson was doing, or they would've ousted him like they did with Trevorrow.

 

Let's dispense with this "Star Wars story group" stuff. The Story Group does not direct the "stories", on either a micro or macro level. They are there to make sure nothing violates canon and to answer questions about names, planets and ships. That's it. They certainly don't tell Abrams or Johnson or anyone else how to make their movies on any level, including the story.  The notion that Pablo Hidalgo and the rest of that crew has some huge story that they're telling and the filmmakers are just going along with it is just comical. They decide nothing of importance. In the publishing world they'd be called fact checkers.

 

It's been well reported that Johnson was given free rein to do as he wished, and tell the story that he wanted, and it's clear to anyone watching that TLJ was uninterested in developing many of the ideas that Abrams (who had nothing to with TLJ's story) began. Abrams is a good soldier, even if he has a problem with what Johnson did, he wouldn't say so. As for Kennedy, she's not a story teller.  So Johnson basically had carte blanche, and again, has said so on many occasions. I can't even believe this is still even being debated.

 

And all that's fine, that's how they're choosing to tell these stories. But let's not pretend there's a grand plan to all this...there's not.  As Chen G correctly pointed out, they're more or less making it up as they go along.  Which is in stark (no pun intended) contrast to what Feige is doing with the MCU.  

[John 2,032]

Just now, Nick1066 said:

Let's dispense with this "Star Wars story group" stuff. The Story Group does not direct the "stories", on either a micro or macro level. They are there to make sure nothing violates canon and to answer questions about names, planets and ships. That's it. Those guys certainly don't tell Abrams or Johnson or anyone else how to make their movies on any level, including the story.

 

Yes, I know what the purpose of the "story group" is.

 

1 minute ago, Nick1066 said:

It's been well reported that Johnson was given free rein to do as he wished, and tell the story that he wanted, and it's clear to anyone watching that TLJ was uninterested in developing many of the ideas that Abrams (who had nothing to with TLJ's story) began. That's fine...but let's not pretend there's a grand plan to all this...there's not.  As Chen G correctly pointed out, they're more or less making it up as they go along.  Which is in stark contrast to what Feige is doing with the MCU.  

 

I agree with everything you just said.

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

2 minutes ago, John said:

I agree with everything you just said.

 

You're my new favourite JWFaner!  Take THAT Disco Stu!

 

L-O-V-E your avatar! 

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 hour ago, Nick1066 said:

 Which is in stark (no pun intended) contrast to what Feige is doing with the MCU.  

 

It should however be said that Marvel, too, only has the overarching story figured out in the broad strokes. It’s not like, as they were making Iron Man, they already has a vision for what Infinity War was actually going to be like.

 

The only way to ensure true cohesion is to script, pre-visualize, shoot and assemble all the films simultaneously - the LOTR way.

 

Now, people can make the argument that this trilogy should have done just that (hell, I might agree), but they can’t single out this specific trilogy out of the Star Wars bunch, when in fact all these films were always made one at a time, and NOT as a truly cohesive whole.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, John said:

Please, explain to me how TLJ disregarded specific plot points that TFA set up. I have yet to see anyone give a valid explanation for this claim.

 

 

 

 

 

[Demodex 557]

I see where you got all your talking points.  I understand where you're coming from a little better.  I may not agree, but at least that last guy could cite some examples of what you're talking about. 

 

However I still disagree that Johnson shit on what TFA supposedly set up.  I thought it followed TFA just fine.

[Indianagirl 298]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

I further clarified by saying,

 Yeah you further clarified after you were called out and after you tried to defend your original statement several times after that. You couldn't let it go and you kept digging deeper in the process. 

 

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

any messages addressing me as "Kitten" will be completely ignored.

 

Congratulations, Kitten. Perhaps you are finally learning to put a sock in it. 

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

TLJ didn't even honor TFA.

Hogwash!

3 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

As for Kennedy, she's not a story teller

 

Kennedy wears many hats and overseeing and helping writers develop story is one of them. Want to know where the decision that Kylo Ren was trying to immitate Darth Vader by wearing the mask rather than needing it to survive came from? Kathy Kennedy.

3 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

TLJ was uninterested in developing many of the ideas that Abrams (who had nothing to with TLJ's story) began. 

Such as?

[Mattris 416]

I did a page search for "Kitten", got a result on your last message... and skipped reading, as I promised.

You will get nowhere with me acting immature.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the videos I embedded. If you use any derogatory language, I will stop reading immediately.

[Indianagirl 298]

Would Piglet be acceptable?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 hour ago, Indianagirl said:

Would Piglet be acceptable?

Perhaps a whoop hog? 😉

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I did a page search for "Kitten", got a result on your last message... and skipped reading, as I promised.

You will get nowhere with me acting immature.

 

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the videos I embedded. If you use any derogatory language, I will stop reading immediately.

 

This forum argument shit is bad for your health mate.  You should try to drop it, there's no point.  Do you think you're gonna convert Indianagirl's thinking, really?  You get nothing for what you're doing here but high blood pressure.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Keep order here! Keep order, I say!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Women and children only!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Master Skywalker, there aren't enough lifeboats. What are we going to do?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I'm sorry I didn't create ya a better Grand Army of the Republic to counter the increasing threats of the Separatists, Rose.

[Mattris 416]

On 02/06/2018 at 6:09 AM, mstrox said:

 

In regards to 1), I see that you’re compiling data!  Neat!  Make sure you include the tweets/threads they were replying to.  I’d be interested in seeing if Lucasfilm employees (from their non-Lucasfilm-affiliated accounts) call somebody sexist or racist for an actual film criticism, and not just for saying something sexist or racist!

 

in regards to 2), I think that’s really overselling the idea that the boycotters are important. I also don’t necessarily agree with hand-waving anything based on Memorial Day.  There are all sorts of reasons why a movie doesn’t match expectations, and simple answers are probably the best ones.

 

Were expectations too high to begin with?  If they hadn’t had to course correct, this would have been a “low budget” Star Wars movie, and that opening weekend would have been very cozy.

 

Did the normies not care about Solo?  I wager that’s the biggest.  My spouse didn’t want to see it, so I went alone.  One of the five people I eat lunch with at work didn’t like it, and the other four don’t plan on seeing it.  Here are some of the things they talked about yesterday:  “The trailers don’t look good.” “I’m kind of Star Warsed out.” “It’s one I’ll just wait to see on Netflix,” “I like the main ones because I like Rey, but I’m not really a Star Wars person.” 

 

The last one was my spouse btw.  All of them liked-to-loved The Last Jedi (I’ve still never met anyone face to face who flipped their kid about TLJ) and none of them are the type of person who follows entertainment news or RottenTomatoes scores or dumb fan fights.

 

So if that’s an accurate sample of what is BY FAR the largest portion of the movie audience (randos who don’t keep up with movie news and just see movies) lacks a driving interest in seeing this for numerous reasons.

 

And then there are the few hundred guys with angry Twitter accounts and YouTube channels, and if they didn’t buy tickets (although I’m not sure how they have such specific complaints if they didn’t), that affected it too.

 

1)  Most of the offensive Tweets were deleted. Indianagirl already admitted that some of those 'statements' came from the head of the Lucasfilm Story Group. If I decide to post my findings, I'll probably link to Youtubers that screen-capped their unprofessionalism.

 

2)  Simple answers... like?

 

Lucasfilm would have hoped for / expected Rogue One numbers. It's reported that Solo had a $250M budget. I wondering if even the Disney shareholders were told how expensive the re-shoots were. But let's not trying to kid ourselves, Solo was never a “low budget” Star Wars movie - not even in the slightest. None of this affected its opening weekend, which was never going to be "very cozy". It's very embarrassing... but not unexpected for the reasons I previously stated.

 

On 02/06/2018 at 9:07 AM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

SW fans are not one subjunctive whole. I consider myself a peaceful supporter of all the films, even though I may kick the bucket before we get to the Beinoff Weiss trilogy. Many of my friends are similar. They like them for the same reason anyone liked SW to begin with. It's a magical space opera that captures so many different views and tones. Hell, it can expand as much as it wants under whoever it wants.

 

Other fans are complete nerds. They're not bad all the time, but I always end up sitting beside them in the theatre. It sucks.

 

Some fans are purists. The like the OT, and now only go to these movies to criticize and crush them without going into the movies with an open mind. @Mattris you're view seems quite narrow minded. I feel you go into these movies constantly thinking about the women in and behind the movie, instead of embracing there's and others roles. I'm not going to start with feminism and sexism, but I think the women in these movies are good for the franchise. If they are made as some sort of movement for females, fine. But as a male I have no problem with them. Heck, there are still plenty more of inspiring male roles in SW. There has been no tip in the balance of this stuff.

 

I know I amongst others here are going to watch all these movies. I may not like them as much as others, but so far I accept all of them. It would take something incredibly stupid to sway my opinion.

 

JJ has IX under control. I like his style better, but I applaud Rian for his gutsy moves. You will get a wonderful close to the saga, unless of course you continue to uphold your narrow opinion and senseless accusations. I get Kennedy is president, but how much do you think she does directly in these movies. The directors and writers and producers all shape these movies too, not just Kennedy.

 

We'll see how things transpire - in the galaxy of Star Wars... and in our world. But I don't feel that I'm "narrow minded" at all. I just want great Star Wars and I'm not getting it. Millions of others agree with me. Did you watch the videos I embedded? I understand there are people that will accept almost anything they're presented with and/or want to see the silver lining in all things, but TLJ was just a crap movie. Even an awesome Episode 9 will not change that.

 

23 hours ago, Demodex said:

I see where you got all your talking points.  I understand where you're coming from a little better.  I may not agree, but at least that last guy could cite some examples of what you're talking about. 

 

However I still disagree that Johnson shit on what TFA supposedly set up.  I thought it followed TFA just fine.

 

All of three videos cited examples.

 

It's a fact "that Johnson shit on what TFA supposedly set up". It's been confirmed that Johnson was not beholden to Abrams. As the writer of TLJ, he had the freedom to write it however he wanted... and did it. You can like the movie. But many - if not, most - SW fans don't.

 

21 hours ago, TGP said:

 

This forum argument shit is bad for your health mate.  You should try to drop it, there's no point.  Do you think you're gonna convert Indianagirl's thinking, really?  You get nothing for what you're doing here but high blood pressure.

 

Nah, just taking up some time. I realize most (or all) of you will never admit if I swayed you or convinced you of anything, but I've presented some ideas to consider. That's why we're here, right?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Not in a way that I think will make any here more amenable to them, I'm sorry to say for you.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

TLJ is an okay but flawed film. Some franchises do have 'em.

 

If you want to see a film with great potential deliver nothing but heartbreak instead, try watching Independence Day Resurgence.

[Mattris 416]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You're kidding yourself if you expect the eighth episodic entry in a 40-year-old franchise to be as good as the original. I mean look at Friday the 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan. From a title like that, you expect it's going to be nothing but Jason causing mayhem in the Big Apple, it's an exciting premise! But instead he's on a small cruise ship for most of the movie, and when he's finally in New York, it's mostly shot in "Vanilla" Vancouver. What a disappointment.

 

But us Friday fans moved on. If SW fans can learn to live with TLJ the way we did with the eighth Jason flick, you'll be all good.

 

EDIT: the trailer was more awesome!

 

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

14 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

I bet Mark would be tickled to see the context in which you quote him here.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

49 minutes ago, TGP said:

I'm sorry I didn't create ya a better Grand Army of the Republic to counter the increasing threats of the Separatists, Rose.

...but this franchise can't sink?!

 

She's made of STAR WARS fans, sir. I assure you, she can.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Mattris said:

 It's a cultural phenomenon, cherished by hundreds of millions of people. 

 

Anyone who cherishes a trick of light, can't have much of any value, in their life.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

16 minutes ago, Richard said:

Anyone who cherishes a trick of light, can't have much of any value, in their life.

 

You would accuse me of insurrection? Has it now become a crime to cherish light?