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Star Wars Disenchantment


John

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2 hours ago, Holko said:

I literally don't know a single person IRL who hated it. And that contributes exactly as much proof to the point as your experience.

 

Same here. Every SW fan I know loved it, and the people I know who aren't huge fans at least didn't hate it. 

2 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 And Ep9 has - what's to become of the people and will the resistance get more resistance people? 

 

What's to become of the people is a big reason people watch sequels. You did forget about a few things.  Was Kylo right or wrong about Rey's origins?  What role does Luke play?  How can the decimated Resistance possibly defeat the First Order?  Will we learn any more about Snoke?   

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8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Was Kylo right or wrong about Rey's origins?  What role does Luke play?  How can the decimated Resistance possibly defeat the First Order?  Will we learn any more about Snoke? 

 

Of course he's right. I don't see the question there.

 

8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Will we learn any more about Snoke? 

 

I don't think so. I can't see it being valuable to IX's narrative, and like I said, concluding chapters tend to be less nonlinear, making it less likely to have flashbacks in the film.

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4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Of course he's right. I don't see the question there.

 

 

I don't think so. I can't see it being valuable to IX's narrative, and like I said, concluding chapters tend to be less nonlinear, making it less likely to have flashbacks in the film.

 

"Less nonlinear" or just "more linear"?

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Mark Hamill tried to warn us how terrible TLJ was before it came out. He was ignored. Now people understand he was right all along. Disney even tried to silence him. But now he doesn't care because it's all over. He's free to tell it like it is. And what it is, is garbage. 

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Hamill didn't like how his character was handled in the movie - that doesn't mean he thought the movie was bad. Maybe he said that at some point after it was released, I don't remember reading anything like that. You can dislike the actions/arc of a character but still like a movie. 

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Just now, Fargo said:

Hamill didn't like how his character was handled in the movie - that doesn't mean he thought the movie was bad. Maybe he said that at some point after it was released, I don't remember reading anything like that. You can dislike the actions/arc of a character but still like a movie. 

 

I've seen countless interviews of Mark trashing the film. Not just the butchering of his character by the awful writer Rian Johnson. He's even turned it all into a running joke. My favourite being:

 

Interviewer - "Tell me something this film does different to the previous ones."

 

Mark - "It's the longest one." 

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5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

They were completely unrelated.

 

Wrong. Both were films that needed Star Wars fans to turn out in order to be successful. Solo was a gross miscalculation: a perfect storm of failure... on the heals of the incredibly divisive TLJ, which killed enthusiasm for the trilogy, fans and the general public alike.

 

4 hours ago, John said:

IX will gross well over a billion. I don’t see how that’s even up for debate. 

 

It really depends on its content. If it's good, it'll make 1.5B. If it's great, it'll make 2B.

 

4 hours ago, Demodex said:

From crybabies.

 

You still haven't learned that name-calling will not prove your point or convince people.

 

4 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Good point yes, but both ROTJ and ROTS were huge finales with massively high expectations and stakes to resolve. People desperately wanted to know the endings of those two trilogies. Whereas ep9 isn't exciting at all in anticipation because the story isn't going anywhere and there are ZERO stakes to resolve.

 

My theory is, that's what they want you to think. If you've read my posts lately, I think IX will contain a massive reveal, twist, and showdown. They're just toying with us now... have been for years... while the actual SW toys rot on shelves.

 

4 hours ago, KK said:

There's too much romanticizing and grandstanding here about the "Grand Demise of Star Wars". Not everyone liked TLJ. It had a bunch of social media trolls. So what? Who cares. Most of those same impassioned haters will be lining up for the next one all the same. It's one of the year's biggest blockbusters, and the finale to one of Hollywood's biggest franchises. $1 billion guaranteed. Wake up people. Unfortunately, the world isn't entirely run by vitriolic online forum rhetoric...

 

Masses of SW fans are "a bunch of social media trolls"? The fans care, and Disney has an uphill battle to get them to get excited and pay to see IX.

 

4 hours ago, Holko said:

Even our beloved Mattriss is reading every bit of canonised fanfiction he can and will go see IX as soon as possible!

 

I haven't really read much, but I'm familiar with the main events, which led me to my theory... that I'm quite proud of, actually.

 

4 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

So ROTJ had - will Luke defeat Vader? Can they save Han? Is Vader telling the truth about him being Luke's father? Can they defeat the Empire? Etc

 

And Ep9 has - what's to become of the people and will the resistance get more resistance people? 

 

Haha...okay I can feel the world's excitement. 

 

Who is Rey? Why she, in particular, so powerful? Why did Ben turn evil? Will he be redeemed? Will either of them turn (Dark Side to Light Side, etc.)? Will either sacrifice themselves for the greater good, to kill someone, or to save someone? Will the Force ghosts of Luke or Anakin make an appearance? Will there be another baddy? Will the Resistance be able to defeat the First Order? What's to become of Leia, Lando, Chewie, and the droids? Will the galaxy be at peace/balance at the end of it all?

 

4 hours ago, KK said:

TLJ appears to hotly divide audiences, which means people, or fans rather, care. Extreme love and extreme hate are usually good things for a beloved franchise. I mean, it's got you guys pages rambling for 100 pages about how much you hate SW, no? You're essentially feeding into machine. It's the same reason why people will line up to see the next film, either out of genuine love/curiosity for the story/characters, or to see if their perceived faults of TLJ have been addressed or just to watch the tent-pole blockbuster of the season.

 

Extreme love for TLJ is far less common than extreme hate for it. Some of the most disenchanted - but curious - fans might buy a ticket for another movie... and walk into a IX screening.

 

4 hours ago, KK said:

And before you bring up Solo again, that film's failure has more to do with its own faults in pre-production and design than it does TLJ. That and general SW saturation (a few months following the last one was never a good idea). It'll be a year and a half between Solo and IX. The latter will be fine.

 

The general public won't care. They'll run to see whatever's the next new shiny thing running in the theaters. SW will be the new must-have toy to buy for December. 

 

These are just movies people. Contrary to popular fanboy belief, there aren't really any staunch moral principles the general masses have with these things...

 

Star Wars 'over-saturation' is a myth, an excuse that Bob Iger subscribes to... or pushes to avoid admitting that Disney/Lucasfilm screwed up badly.

 

I agree, the general public will flock to IX... probably regardless of its quality. The fans are a different story.

 

Star Wars has a legacy, a history. The franchise is tied to peoples' childhoods. Dismissing them as "just movies" is quite short-sighted... just as dismissing Solo's failure as 'a fluke' is. Do not underestimate Star Wars fans.

 

3 hours ago, KK said:

- KK, now officially drawn into a SW Disenchantment Thread "debate", is living his worst nightmare...

 

Welcome to the party, pal!

 

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

My predictions for ep9: It will be critically acclaimed by critics who like to stay in Disney's good graces. But it will be hated overall by fans and be reviewed even lower than TLJ. It will gross less than TLJ.

 

Considering the stakes for Disney, the franchise, and JJ's future prospects, I have a feeling that IX will be the best film of the trilogy, by far... especially if he goes the direction I'm hoping. If so, it has the potential to be the best SW movie since ROTJ.

 

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

It will come as no surprise that I estimate, for the majority of Star Wars fans, most of TLJ's subversion resulted in a neutral or positive reaction. 

 

Point me to any mainstream website, comments section, or poll that indicates that.

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38 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 Point me to any mainstream website, comments section, or poll that indicates that.

 

This forum, and everyone i talk to. 

Comments sections usually have the worst people commenting. If someone doesn't like something they run to tell people on the internet. Those of us that love TLJ are a silent majority. 

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- Disney had no original long term plan.

- Disney have no fu**ing clue what they're doing right now with Star Wars, and never did.

-Disney are losing huge amounts of money with their Star Wars toys, and are panicking a lot with the lack of sales.

- Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy said that they completely ignored J.J's outline for ep8 and gave Johnson 100% creative freedom. Accepting his FIRST draft as the films final script. They both have said that.

- J.J. didn't want to come back and was thrown money at in large quantities to return so Disney can salvage the trilogy.

- No characters will have twists unless J.J. rewrites the results of Ep8, which I hope he does...because it's laughably awful.

 

And finally, Ep9 will be a mess of a film with no doubt 75% remade elements from the original trilogy, with some safe and obvious cliche resolutions to the character's stories. 

 

I will not be seeing it in theatres, only on tv 9 months later when it's free. I look forward to the inevitable hilarious youtube videos that will no doubt entertain me for many months as I come to understand the sad but funny events that happen in ep9.

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2 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

And finally, Ep9 will be a mess of a film with no doubt 75% remade elements from the original trilogy, with some safe and obvious cliche resolutions to the character's stories

 

As long as it ends with a grand Ewok barbeque party, I'm good!

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"I hope people are happy. In Hollywood, remember kids, it's not important if it's high quality; only if it makes money. And because The Force Awakens made a lot of money. It's not ergo it's good." - Mark Hamill.

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31 minutes ago, Mattris said:

It really depends on its content. If it's good, it'll make 1.5B. If it's great, it'll make 2B.

 

Now you’re getting it!

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20 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

-Disney are losing huge amounts of money with their Star Wars toys, and are panicking a lot with the lack of sales.

 

Source on this?

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1 minute ago, Fargo said:

 

Source on this?

 

It's everywhere. All you have to do is search. My particular source is WCB podcast where one of the things they cover is Toy sales. And they are experts on the subject. They have budget reports, sales reports etc and Disney's Star Wars is tanking in toy sales. They have first hand accounts of shops having to cut prices by 95% and they still wont sell. One major seller has had the same display on Star Wars toys for over a year, and an employee says they are still the same exact toys on the shelves from last year, and they have boxes of them in the back unopened. 

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54 minutes ago, Fargo said:

You can dislike the actions/arc of a character but still like a movie. 

 

As long as it's not a strong female character. 

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3 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

It's everywhere. All you have to do is search. My particular source is WCB podcast where one of the things they cover is Toy sales. And they are experts on the subject. They have budget reports, sales reports etc and Disney's Star Wars is tanking in toy sales. They have first hand accounts of shops having to cut prices by 95% and they still wont sell. One major seller has had the same display on Star Wars toys for over a year, and an employee says they are still the same exact toys on the shelves from last year, and they have boxes of them in the back unopened. 

 

Other Hasbro toy lines were slumping; stop trying to push the agenda (ironic!) that it’s exclusive to Star Wars merchandise. 

 

When you see six year-olds with their faces buried in their handheld digital devices, who’s left that wants to play with action figures these days?

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1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

You sure you're not just ashamed of loving such a terribly written film?

 

If I was ashamed I wouldn't be posting about how much I loved it. 

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1 minute ago, John said:

 

Other Hasbro toy lines were slumping; stop trying to push the agenda (ironic!) that it’s exclusive to Star Wars merchandise. 

 

When you see six year-olds with their faces buried in the digital devices in their hands already, who’s left that wants to play with action figures these days?

 

Did I mention other toys? I said Star Wars. They are bombing because kids don't want to run around the playground with a Kylo Ren mask - "I'M ANGRY! I'M SAD! I'M HAPPY AGAIN! I'M GOOD! I'M EVIL!...wait. mummy, daddy, what are Kylo's character motivations again?"

 

Just now, Demodex said:

 

If I was ashamed I wouldn't be posting about how much I loved it. 

 

Again, you have my pity.

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7 minutes ago, Ghostbusters II said:

I thought the target audience for Star Wars toys was adult male nerds?

 

*fat bearded 40+ male nerds yes. Kids are just unfortunate collateral damage.

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3 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

*fat bearded 40+ male nerds yes. Kids are just unfortunate collateral damage.

 

How are all these fat, bearded, male nerds having kids? Are they all finding fat, bearded, female nerds to procreate with??

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35 minutes ago, John said:

 

Other Hasbro toy lines were slumping; stop trying to push the agenda (ironic!) that it’s exclusive to Star Wars merchandise. 

 

When you see six year-olds with their faces buried in their handheld digital devices, who’s left that wants to play with action figures these days?

 

Star Wars toy sales have been struggling since before the takeover. The 2nd wave of the Black Series 6inch (Han Greedo Leia) peg warmed hard

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1 hour ago, Ghostbusters II said:

Back in my day, we had real strong female characters like Sarah Connor, Selina Kyle and Rose Dawson.

 

They're too flawed. Women today want polished, flawless, sassy rolemodels.

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9 hours ago, John said:

 

 

You... you do realize they’re making fun of people like you in that video, right?

 

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

I dont think he does realize.

 

Please educate me on how exactly that video relates to me in any way.

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The problem with any fandom (and with Star Wars in particular) is that there's no way to gauge any sense of consensus - some will stake some sense of ownership of the series, like @Mattris who believe Disney/Lucasfilm must listen to their every whim, others who are nostalgic of the films and are therefore either loyal or cautious of the direction of these new sequels, and then you have those who I think have an interest in the films, but are on the periphery. That's just within the fandom, outside is a different story altogether...

 

 

 

 

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I've never been a huge fan of Star Wars. The Lord of the Rings was the thing that hit me most and has continued to ever since. That is where my deep interest and analytical obsession lies.

 

I really like the 6 Star Wars films of course because I saw them as a kid. The OT being great films and the prequels less so, but I like them still because I saw them as a kid. Yet I know they're clearly not as good.

 

People like to use the argument that I'm a troll because my love of the OT blinds me. But I'm not even in love with those films. I just think they're well written films. The truth is that TFA was a poor remake of ANH, and TLJ is a writing nightmare with so many narrative problems that it's pathetic that the script ever got approved. Rogue One I enjoy, because of the battles being fantastically put together, and because of the unexpected deaths of every single character. That was a refreshing angle to go with. Solo I thought was okay. Meh covers it perfectly. Not terrible, not good. Some awful character writing, but the film was very by the numbers.

 

So people can't claim that I am blinded by nostalgia, because I don't really care about that. And people can't claim I'm a troll hating on Disney's Star Wars because I enjoyed Rogue One and thought Solo wasn't that bad. Perhaps the reason why I don't like TFA and TLJ is because they are bad films with bad writing and bad characters, especially TLJ, which I am actually amused by its poor quality at this point. 

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I'm in the small camp that thought TLJ was alright, not great and not as terrible like many seem to believe. As I said a billion pages ago, if you're a detractor of TLJ, voicing these opinions on JWFan of all places seems like a waste of time. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I'm in the small camp that thought TLJ was alright, not great and not as terrible like many seem to believe. As I said a billion pages ago, if you're a detractor of TLJ, voicing these opinions on JWFan of all places seems like a waste of time. 

 

 

If there's anything these nuts hate the most, it's a fence sitter!

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