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Star Wars Disenchantment


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8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Even if there were unresolved plot threads in the original sextet, that doesn't necessarily justify a sequel. The Return of the King technically has plenty of loose threads: what happened to the Easterlings and Southrons? What is Aragorn's rule like? Will the Dwarves reclaim Moria now? What about the Entwives? But since its a roaring climax to the series, there's no point carrying on afterwards, even if there is the technical possibility to do so. To provide audiences with a movie set after that climax will only diminish it.

 

The lesson is: If you plan to keep your film series going, don't provide it with any form of climax until you're ready to call it quits. By my calculations, Star Wars already had two climaxes: Return of the Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. I really don't want a third helping, thank you very much. I suppose that neither of those two films were particularly good certainly doesn't add to my interest in going around another time.

 

It's completely absurd. 

It's like saying after every Bond movie, we need a sequel to find out what happens with Bond and the girl he gets in the end. Or that we need a Jaws spinoff. 

"Bond and Domino got together, we need to find out!!!" 

Fuck

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8 hours ago, Chen G. said:

By my calculations, Star Wars already had two climaxes: Return of the Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. I really don't want a third helping, thank you very much.

 

If you didn't climax during Attack of the Clones, then something's wrong with you.

 

lake_retreat18.jpg?resize=640,270

 

dex.jpg

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Sobering take on the fandom fixation on canon and continuity, which I agree contributes to ruining or impairing the quality of fan discourse in relation to that fictional world. Some interesting analysis on spoilerphobia too, which to me has become hysterical over the last 20 years.

 

https://io9.gizmodo.com/our-fascination-with-canon-is-killing-the-way-we-value-1842590915/amp?__twitter_impression=true

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9 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

I don't know why you guys don't let this thread die.

 

Unless we stop feeding our fear, anger, and hate... our suffering will continue. (I predict that's how Palpatine, the Devil, will be finally defeated.)

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There's only so much grief and strife with intergalactic battles and empires that one universe can endure before it becomes a disastrous, sado-masochistic cycle.

 

Other franchises deal with this dilemma by shifting the huge villain plot by doing something more introspective and character driven - and that's where some of this sequel trilogy seemed to be going before it devolved into the safe and familiar Palpatine plot.

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"Something more introspective and character driven" has to be the focus of the Final Trilogy. The real villain has always been our inner demons. We must pick our battles wisely and choose selflessness, good, and love over selfishness, evil, and hate. That has always been the primary message of the Saga.

 

What will make Episode X unique is that Rey's battles continue with the Devil having literally possessed her.

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I imagine the follow-up to these films will follow Rey's new journey of self-discovery, with her trying to find other Jedi across the galaxy in order to start another Jedi Order. It would be nice not to have to deal with more imperial crap.

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4 hours ago, Arpy said:

I imagine the follow-up to these films will follow Rey's new journey of self-discovery, with her trying to find other Jedi across the galaxy in order to start another Jedi Order.


Sounds boring.

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52 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

This thread is a JWFan nightmare scenario. Macgyver, Mattress and Chan G just going on and on about Star Wars.

Meanwhile, Mickey dives in his cash.

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5 hours ago, Mattris said:

Perhaps the (dormant) Emperor allows Rey start another Jedi Order... only to strike a killing blow from within. Pure evil!

 

Oh, is that what you're doing? 

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1 minute ago, Þekþiþm said:

 

Is she entitled to that like the original cast were?

 

She's a strong empowered white female. She's entitled to anything. 

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On 4/1/2020 at 2:30 AM, Mattris said:

But the Sequel Trilogy was made... legitimately, based on the un-concluded plot-lines of the previous six films

 

Bullshit.  Everyone was happy with ROTJ being the final movie.  If Episodes 7-9 had never been made, ROTJ would have been a satisfying ending. 

 

When I heard there was another trilogy being made my reaction was "WTF?  WHY?"  Anakin's story is what Star Wars is, and it ends in Episode 6. 

 

 

2 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Personally, I doubt Daisy Ridley even wants to come back for a X.

 

I believe all the main cast has said they are done with Star Wars. They are not coming back. 

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3 hours ago, Demodex said:

I believe all the main cast has said they are done with Star Wars. They are not coming back. 

 

Also, with no disrespect to the cast of the sequel trilogy (who are wonderful), seeing them in a movie even ten years into the future won't mean the same thing that seeing the cast of the original Star Wars in The Force Awakens did.

 

Now that the old cast CAN'T reappear, you wouldn't build a whole new trilogy around these new characters. Even with the Star Wars title, its too dicey.

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He thinks the scene in Revenge of the Sith where Anakin is told of Darth Plagueis’ abilities somehow make the six films incomplete. He also thinks Disney intentionally flunked the sequel trilogy to make room for another one, and that somehow that trilogy will make this trilogy better.


Which, I may add, is what he said would happen with The Rise of Skywalker ahead of its release: somehow, it would make him not hate The Last Jedi anymore, because surely it’s all part of a plan which we could only fathom once we see the last film, you see.

 

I suppose he finds the idea comforting. Go figure...

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20 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Also, with no disrespect to the cast of the sequel trilogy (who are wonderful), seeing them in a movie even ten years into the future won't mean the same thing that seeing the cast of the original Star Wars in The Force Awakens did.

 

Now that the old cast CAN'T reappear, you wouldn't build a whole new trilogy around these new characters. Even with the Star Wars title, its too dicey.

 

ROS established that characters can appear at any point as ghosts that can talk and interact like regular people. Anyone can be shoehorned in. 

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Yeah, but by the time they get around to doing another trilogy, who knows what members of the original cast will have checked out? Whichever way you're looking at it, a fourth "Skywalker" trilogy is not a terribly smart idea.

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We’ll have another trilogy. Just wait.

 

But it’ll be like the  ‘Jurassic World’ ST is in relation to the ‘Jurassic Park’ OT.

 

I.E., It’s the same universe, but no one really cares anymore and the movies just keep getting dumber and character and plot is inconsistent.

 

Yay us!

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I like The Last Jedi.

 

The whole trilogy is redundant, but at least The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi are well-crafted films in their own rights. The Rise of Skywalker, however...

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1 hour ago, rough cut said:

It’s the same universe, but no one really cares anymore and the movies just keep getting dumber and character and plot is inconsistent.

 

I was really very excited about TLJ, and still cared at that point. TFA had set up some really tantalizing possibilities, fans were throwing around some great theories about its mysteries and what the future held. And it was going to be about Luke Skywalker!!

 

Going into TRoS, I already didn’t care at all what would happen, at all. It felt like a spinoff, a standalone.

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On 4/2/2020 at 2:37 AM, gkgyver said:

 

It's completely absurd. 

It's like saying after every Bond movie, we need a sequel to find out what happens with Bond and the girl he gets in the end. Or that we need a Jaws spinoff. 

"Bond and Domino got together, we need to find out!!!" 

Fuck

It's not so absurd in the case of Star Wars, which always has more wiggle room. The thing is, I've never seen Star Wars as this tightly-knit masterfully constructed tale - they've always been entertaining pieces of sci-fi fantasy that are serialised. The notion of this being a grand epic saga was flawed to begin with.

 

On the other hand, I also understand that the greedy desire for more and more films etc. is also a terrible trend as of late, supported and propagated by the commercial successes of something like the MCU. Every superhero is going to get their time in the sun, and I say, alright, try it! Let's see how far they can get before people lose interest in these overdone superhero films. I already have.

5 hours ago, rough cut said:

We’ll have another trilogy. Just wait.

 

But it’ll be like the  ‘Jurassic World’ ST is in relation to the ‘Jurassic Park’ OT.

 

I.E., It’s the same universe, but no one really cares anymore and the movies just keep getting dumber and character and plot is inconsistent.

 

Yay us!

That's what's already happening with the MCU and the whole superhero phenomenon. 

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But on the whole, the MCU is fairly consistent - at least when it comes to characters (I’ll leave plot out of this).

 

The only charcuterie they really messed up in an unnatural way is Thor who went from Godly to goofy, which I think is a shame (even though I appreciate the jokes, and still find the character enjoyable).

 

Look at how Thor was portrayed in his first movie: righteous, intelligent and a bit stoic. Somehow, at the end of phase 3, he’s portrayed as a stupid, spoiled clueless brat. For me, Thor was written more ‘true’ to who the character is supposed to be in his early movies (c’mon, he’s the God Of Thunder for frickin’ sakes!) - now they use him as a vessel for jokes and comic relief.

 

Did we really need another character that tells jokes in the MCU?

 

The most notable inconsistency in Jurassic World and Jurassic World Falllen Kingdom is Bryce Dallas Howard’s character Claire. The change in her compared between the free movies, makes you question if the writers of the sequel ever saw the first movie? They completely disregarded who she was and just re-wrote the character in every way possible.

 

She went from cold hearted, business minded shark, to a warm hearted, care-about-the-animals hippie in a way that almost made the movie unwatchable for me.

 

They should have kept Claire as she was, or - if they wanted to go with the save-the-animals angle - should have written a whole new character.

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3 hours ago, Arpy said:

The thing is, I've never seen Star Wars as this tightly-knit masterfully constructed tale - they've always been entertaining pieces of sci-fi fantasy that are serialised. The notion of this being a grand epic saga was flawed to begin with.

 

Star Wars is an attempt at a tightly-knit, grand epic saga. It doesn't work very well because of lack of respect for continuity ("fuck it, now Vader is Luke's father", "screw it, lets have Owen meet C3PO in a prequel, even though he has no clue who he is in the original.") but you can see the intention there, flawed though it is in execution.

 

Besides, even stories that are anthological eventually reach saturation and need to find a place on which to end. Indiana Jones is anthological, but Spielberg clearly tied a bow on it with The Last Crusade...oh, wait...

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