Jump to content

Star Wars Disenchantment


John
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

What? Where did you get that? Rey's character arc in The Force Awakens is her overcoming of her own delusions regarding her parents. Once she (figuratively) leaves her parents behind, their identity is irrelevant, and I certainly never got the impression that they were of any significance. The whole point of Rey is that she's a lowly orphan: its a rags-to-riches story, which would be diminished if she did come from an important lineage.

 

Certainly Maz Kanata's dialog in the scene about Luke's lightsaber give some significance to the fact it that it was once Luke's, and his father's before his, and now it calls to her.  Everyone is asking - "who's the girl?", "what girl?", etc.  JJ definitely wants us to get involved in the mystery of her identity.  One of the trailers even starts with a line from Maz ro Rey (deleted from the finished film) - "Who are you?".  

 

The flashback dream sequence when Rey touches the lightsaber intertwines her childhood memories of being left on Jakku with the events leading the Luke's exile.  I don't think it is outrageous to conclude from that that the film is asking the audience to make some connection between Rey and Luke.  

 

The scene where Kylo Ren uses the Force to try to read Rey's mind is filled with allusions that there is more to her story than simply being left on Jakku and being nobody.  Certainly that she has visions of the island that Luke Skywalker now lives on is some kind of foreshadowing beyond coincidence.  The fact that Leia sends Rey to get Luke at the end of the movie also has some influence on the audience attributing some significance to her backstory - there must be some reason she trusts Rey, a girl she met only moments earlier on screen, with this monumentally important task, something more than we know from what the movie explicitly tells us.  The movie is constructed to give as much weight to Rey and the mysteries surrounding her identity as possible.

 

Even so, if we were to accept the premise that by the end of TFA she has accepted that her identity is irrelevant, why is she then so upset about it when discussing it with Kylo Ren in ep 8?

17 minutes ago, Holko said:

JJ should have actually put stuff into the film indicating direction instead of leaving them vague if he really wanted things to go some way. But he didn't so fuck him, Rian did a great job.

I'm not saying he didn't.  I'm saying he took things in a different direction that JJ had thought they would go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But then why is JJ's headcanon relevant to anyone if he didn't bother putting it in his movie?

10 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

I dunno, TLJ was rather average really. Not terrible but not great either. Had a few okay bits here and there.

In your opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

Surely as a society we’re collectively past the point of having to qualify our opinions as opinions.

 

Apparently some people still demand it be explicitly stated in a disclaimer for some reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

Just that I believe JJ and RJ had different goals with their films, and that RJ did not rake things where JJ expected they would go. 

 

December 2015, JJ revealed that he and Lawrence Kasdan "set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going."

 

Everyone at Lucasfilm – knows that Palpatine is the villain of the Saga. Due to the reveals in TROS, it's clear that nothing in TLJ negatively affected the originally-intended pay-offs of the trilogy. Nothing.

 

A few months before TROS was released, JJ was clear, once again: “The story that we're telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”

 

33 minutes ago, Holko said:

JJ should have actually put stuff into the film indicating direction instead of leaving them vague if he really wanted things to go some way. But he didn't so fuck him, Rian did a great job.

 

JJ said that TFA was intended to 'be based more on emotion than explanation.' The Last Jedi continued the story, as planned:

 

- As supposed by Han, Luke had secluded himself, utterly dejected after what happened with one of his students and Jedi training school.
- Rey further exuded dark side tendencies and was not trained by Luke as a Jedi.
- Kylo and Rey discovered their Force bond.
- Kylo betrayed Snoke and became Supreme Leader of the First Order.
- Kylo, once again, asked Rey to join him so they could lead a new order. She refused him again.
- Kylo and Hux become further at odds, with both men becoming unhinged in their efforts to maintain control of the First Order.
- The Resistance, still under the command of Leia, was weakened to the brink of destruction... but was saved by Luke Skywalker, who apologized to Ben and 'took on the First Order with a laser sword'.

 

These character/plot progressions had to happen to set-up the conclusion of the trilogy. Assuming that Johnson diverged from the beaten path implies that another story was intended by JJ and Kasdan. If not...

 

... was Palpatine, the villain of the Saga, not influencing Ben Solo his entire life through Vader's helmet, Snoke, and the Force?

... Ben Solo, the last Skywalker, not intended to be redeemed, having used the Force to stop a loved one from dying?

... was mystery girl Rey not a Palpatine, to explain her very purpose to exist in the trilogy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Mattris said:

JJ revealed that he and Lawrence Kasdan "set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts.

 

You can't open a trilogy with a film as open-ended as The Force Awakens and not set-up certain threads on certain traejectories. For instance, the filmmakers revealed that they always wanted for Kylo Ren to be redeemed at the end. In fact, I'm pretty sure when Abrams said VIII didn't derail anything for him, its that he's talking about: that Johnson never shut the door too expliciltly on the possibility of Kylo turning good.

 

Also, like we were talking about, that Luke would be consumed by guilt and unwilling to rejoin the struggle was also in the cards for VIII. It wouldn't take a genius, either, to assume in 2015 that Ben and Rey would cross sabers somwhere in IX. None of this counts as a "plan": its just inevitable in terms of storytelling. Its just like how the classic trilogy was always going to end with the defeat of the Empire (Lucas said it will in 1975) even without a plan: its just the natural conclusion of the story begun by Star Wars.

 

But as far as setting-up something more specific, like the return of Palpatine? Hell no; there's no evidence of that, and in fact Chris Terrio (who, say what you will, at least he's outspoken about the behind-the-scenes!) spoke to the opposite being true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

RJ says "let go of the past.  Kill it if you have to..."

RJ makes the villain and the disillusioned old hero say that and explores the dangers of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think its something of a statement of theme for his film.

 

Not that I mind it at all, I just think it could have been a bit better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mattris, may I ask you, do you believe George Lucas made Star Wars in 1977 with the plan of Darth Vader being Luke's father and Leia being his sister?  Or do you think that evolved over the course of making the three films?

 

I can tell you with 100% certainty, RJ did not consult with JJ, did not feel compelled to pick up anything JJ set up.  As long as he didn't outright contradict anything JJ said in Ep 7, he could do what he wanted.  You do not have to believe me.  But I promise you, that is the truth.  Kathy Kennedy was completely preoccupied with putting out fires every day on Rogue One so Ep 8 was made with relative freedom by RJ.  Remember, when they were making Ep 8, 7 had revitalized SW and Disney was not expecting fan backlash.  They still had Josh Trank working on a Boba Fett movie, and CT working on outlines for Ep 9.  But trust me, Lucasfilm had no intention of bringing Palpatine back until late in the process of ironing out Ep 9, and it was something CT brought to the table just as a sort of a "what if..." idea when his original pitch for the story was rejected by Lucasfilm.  CT was very frustrated with where Ep 8 left things - Luke was dead, Han was dead, Snoke was dead, Carrie Fisher had passed away but Leia was still alive.

 

I think I've said everything I can about this topic.  Believe me or don't.  People here will vouch for me that I don't post a lot, but when I do, it's pretty much right on....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Holko said:

JJ should have actually put stuff into the film indicating direction instead of leaving them vague if he really wanted things to go some way. But he didn't so fuck him, Rian did a great job.


 

JJ is incapable of indicating direction. Everything HAS to be mystery box. 
 

RJ did an ok job as a stand-alone film (mostly with Luke and Rey, the less said about the Rebel side of things the better) but he did an equally poor job of setting it up for the next Director. 
 

 

A lot of that is down to the lack of a fleshed our outline for the trilogy before starting though. Whether that’s JJ’s fault or Lucasfilm’s fault is another matter. Although I would tend to blame the latter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bilbo said:

A lot of that is down to the lack of a fleshed our outline for the trilogy before starting

 

But why is that okay with the classic trilogy, and not okay with the sequel trilogy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

But why is that okay with the classic trilogy, and not okay with the sequel trilogy?

Because there was a single guy dictating the story for the classic trilogy even if he was making it up as he went along. 
 

But even at that I don’t think Return of the Jedi is a particularly satisfying end to the OT anyway. I think it’s the film that has benefited most from the fleshed our backstory and special editions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, elvisjones said:

Sorry mattris I can confirm there was no plan,and the commonalities between themes that you are referring to are a result of JW creating a musically consistent pantheon of themes for the saga, and his career.

 

JJ def did not tell JW to compose themes for ep 7 with The Emperor in mind.  JJ had no control over where the characters would be taken after ep 7.  Hence why Rian Johnson took everything in a totally different direction than 7 hinted,  and why Colin Trevorow pitches for ep 9 were different than the path JJ eventually took.  CT was the one who brought palpating to the table and that’s why he gets story credit for ep 9.  
 

part of the reason JW is such a genius is cos he can take seemingly unrelated ideas and make them work together as if they were meant to be that way from the beginning.

 

also the foreshadowing of the prequels was easier because everyone knew that anakin had to end up as Darth Vader. Nobody knew anything about where the story was headed when they made ep 7....


I don’t say these things lightly - I live and work in LA and although I obviously can’t prove it on a forum like this, I DO know what I’m talking about....

 

The first five notes of Kylo's motif are five notes in a row from the primary melody of The Emperor's Theme... Kylo ends up having been manipulated by Palpatine... and you think John Williams just wrote Kylo's motif just to be "musically consistent" in a 'Star Warsy kind of sound'? I'm sorry, but you clearly have no clue how ignorant you sound. The mere suggestion that John Williams did not intend this direct connection is, quite frankly, absurd. I have trouble believing that you - of all people - elvisjones, don't understand John Williams' thematic composition style. He is a genius because he used five notes in a row from The Emperor's Theme - while few people in the world noticed - and it turns out the they were related ideas specifically because "they were meant to be that way from the beginning". The fact that Palpatine returned confirms: It was all planned.

 

JJ and (Episodes V and VI co-writer) Kasdan said 'they knew were things were going'. JJ was the Executive Producer on VIII and said that it "didn't really derail anything that we were thinking about."

 

No, Colin Trevorrow was NOT the one who brought Palpatine to the table. When he said in 2019, “Bringing back the Emperor was an idea JJ brought to the table when he came on board. It’s honestly something I never considered. I commend him for it. This was a tough story to unlock, and he found the key,” he was being honest. JJ brought the Emperor to the table when “he came on board” in 2013. Mr. Trevorrow “never considered” the Emperor, Kylo's redemption, or Rey as a Palpatine because he was told not to. His Episode IX pre-production was clearly a brainstorming exercise... and a distraction.

 

So no, you cannot "confirm" anything. I'm sorry to say, you don't know what you're talking about. I'll bet you don't even realize the primary purpose of the trilogy (from a story standpoint). But don't worry, few do.

 

4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

JJ Abrams is a very capable filmmaker. He just needed more time to crack the story (not to mention shoot and especially EDIT this film) and less preconcieved notions...

 

Oh, don't worry. He cracked the story. So well, in fact, that few noticed.

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

JJ didn't even bother resolving his own story threads, much less Rian's.

 

As for his abilities as a filmmaker, he can make pretty images but I'm yet to be blown away by anything he's directed. I don't think anyone could argue with a straight face that he's a good screenwriter, even if he's a capable director. At best I would describe his style as chaotic, indecisive and style over substance.

 

What story threads are unresolved? I thought that JJ was quite decisive and substantive with these films.

 

3 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

She was able to defeat the bad guy, something Luke was only able to do after three movies. Finn turned good. I barely remember these movies, but I remember that much. There isn't much you can do with your characters when you blow your load on the first movie. That's why they invented weird shit like Ray absorbing the power of the Jedi or whatever. I guess she became a Skywalker because she says so.

 

Apart from 'Finn turning good', every word of what you just said... was wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I think its all just the result of him being put at the helm so late in the game.

 

Trust me, JJ was always coming back. He just took a break after a busy three years.

 

3 hours ago, elvisjones said:

... that Luke was waiting until the time was right to come back and thus when Rey shows up with the saber at the end, it’s his call back to adventure, to paraphrase Joseph Campbell.

 

its pretty clear that RJ seemed more inspired to deconstruct the tropes of Star Wars where JJ was more inclined to perpetuate them.  In any case, this trilogy had no roadmap to its conclusion, it was made up film-to-film as they went along, which was my main point above.  

 

It's a Call To Adventure - not a "call back to adventure". Luke already had a Call To Adventure and had become a Hero. Episode VIII reveals he had become the Hero Fallen From Grace.

 

The roadmap existed, proven by every available fact (all the films of the Saga, the canon, music clues, JJ's statements, etc.) This "made up film-to-film as they went along" theory is complete and utter nonsense based entirely in rumor, speculation, and ignorance. 

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

He did the exact opposite of what a writer with limited time should do: he over-complicated the story, rather than streamline and simplify it.

 

I couldn't even explain the story of TROS if someone asked for the condensed version; it's a nonsensical mess of shit thrown at a wall, thrown together with little regard for coherent plotting or logical story progression.

 

What about TROS'  story progression is incoherent or illogical?

 

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The whole point of Rey is that she's a lowly orphan: its a rags-to-riches story, which would be diminished if she did come from an important lineage.

 

Rey never sought "riches". Her story was one of self-discovery: She did come from an important lineage... and decided to confront her fear (of herself) and kill her grandfather. That's what happened.

 

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

Another mystery box JJ dumped on another writer to solve.

 

Fans, including Hamill, should direct their anger about the handling of Luke towards Abrams, not Johnson.

 

RJ did not "solve" anything.

Hamill is not a "fan" - nor is he angry.

 

2 hours ago, Þekþiþm said:

Failing at things might have made her more interesting.

 

She failed to control her fear and anger multiple times in every film.

 

1 hour ago, Holko said:

JJ should have actually put stuff into the film indicating direction instead of leaving them vague if he really wanted things to go some way. But he didn't so fuck him, Rian did a great job.

 

JJ's "direction" to Rian Johnson was mostly done off-screen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Mattris said:

This "made up film-to-film as they went along" theory is complete and utter nonsense based entirely in rumor, speculation...

 

...and the admission of every single filmmaker involved with the trilogy, as well the executive producer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every single filmmaker? Who? Please provide direct quotes.

 

I don't doubt that the films were written separately. But Lucasfilm had a basic roadmap for the trilogy from the beginning -- indicated by the (all of the) films, canon material, music, and multiple quotes from JJ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JJ never said they had a roadmap, per se. Rian Johnson was explicit in saying he was given no story stipulations, Chris Terrio shared when most of the plot points for The Rise of Skywalker were hatched, and it was while he and Abrams were working on the script, and Kathleen Kennedy was upfront in saying they're "making it as we go along."

 

Seems definitive enough for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The first five notes of Kylo's motif are five notes in a row from the primary melody of The Emperor's Theme... Kylo ends up having been manipulated by Palpatine... and you think John Williams just wrote Kylo's motif just to be "musically consistent" in a 'Star Warsy kind of sound'? I'm sorry, but you clearly have no clue how ignorant you sound. The mere suggestion that John Williams did not intend this direct connection is, quite frankly, absurd. I have trouble believing that you - of all people - elvisjones, don't understand John Williams' thematic composition style. He is a genius because he used five notes in a row from The Emperor's Theme - while few people in the world noticed - and it turns out the they were related ideas specifically because "they were meant to be that way from the beginning". The fact that Palpatine returned confirms: It was all planned.

 

The first five notes of Luke's Theme in Star Wars are literally the first five notes of ET's theme.  Does that mean that - while few people in the world noticed, it turns out that Luke and ET are related ideas specifically because they were meant to be that way from the beginning?

 

And just to be clear, what five notes of Kylo Ren's theme are you saying are from the Emperor's Theme?  Kylo's Theme goes:  G F# C Eb low-G.  The Emperor's theme goes C Eb C...Eb C Bb...C Eb C G F# F-natural.  The Emperor's theme never even goes to low G and Kylo's theme has no Bb or F natural.  EDIT -- The Ark theme from RAIDERS is arguably as close to Kylo Ren's Theme as the Emperor's theme is - it's melody is G F# C....G F# C....

 

Talking about people's comments to the press, JJ is well known for lying to the press all the time, such as when he insisted Benedict Cumberbach was not playing Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness.  Filmmakers always soften the truth when talking to the press, especially about bumps in the road.  Does anyone really think JJ is going to go to the press and start bad mouthing RJ for totally derailing this trilogy?  No, he's going to say nice things and be a nice guy and try to get people to come see his movie.  George Lucas has revised his version of the evolution of the Star Wars stories many times over the course of making the original films and then the prequels, even when proof that he's changing history is easily available.

 

I was ready to let this go, but don't call me ignorant.  I know what I'm talking about.  I don't call people names.  Be nice.  Thank you.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

George Lucas has revised his version of the evolution of the Star Wars stories many times over the course of making the original films and then the prequels

 

That's different though. That man is a pathological liar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

The first five notes of Luke's Theme in Star Wars are literally the first five notes of ET's theme.  Does that mean that - while few people in the world noticed, it turns out that Luke and ET are related ideas specifically because they were meant to be that way from the beginning?

 

That's not a like-for-like comparison, as Luke and ET are unrelated characters in different franchises. Kylo turned out to have been manipulated by The Emperor himself. This means that John Williams theme for Kylo - with five notes in a row the same - wasn't a coincidence at all.

 

53 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

And just to be clear, what five notes of Kylo Ren's theme are you saying are from the Emperor's Theme?  Kylo's Theme goes:  G F# C Eb low-G.  The Emperor's theme goes C Eb C...Eb C Bb...C Eb C G F# F-natural.  The Emperor's theme never even goes to low G and Kylo's theme has no Bb or F natural.

 

Re: The melody of The Emperor's Theme, look/listen to measure 7 and the first note of 8. It's the first five notes of Kylo's motif, exactly.

 

53 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

Filmmakers always soften the truth when talking to the press, especially about bumps in the road.

 

True, as evidenced by the abundance of negative / controversial / awkward comments from Disney/Lucasfilm employees to the fans... and about The Last Jedi... two and a half years after the movie was released. Something's not right here.

 

46 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

This is why I said I was PARAPHRASING Joseph Campbell, not quoting him exactly.

 

That's not paraphrasing. You simply got the term wrong. And in this case, the difference is HUGE. Joseph Campbell created no 'Call Back To Adventure'. If it exists, it certainly wasn't used in The Last Jedi.

 

53 minutes ago, elvisjones said:

I was ready to let this go, but don't call me ignorant.  I know what I'm talking about.  I don't call people names.  Be nice.  Thank you.

 

Saying that 'you know what you're taking about' when you are directly contradicting me means, that 'I must not know what I'm talking about.'

 

'Ignorant' is not a name, elvisjones. It's just means that someone is unaware of certain factual information.

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

JJ never said they had a roadmap, per se. Rian Johnson was explicit in saying he was given no story stipulations, Chris Terrio shared when most of the plot points for The Rise of Skywalker were hatched, and it was while he and Abrams were working on the script, and Kathleen Kennedy was upfront in saying they're "making it as we go along."

 

Seems definitive enough for me.

 

December 2015, JJ said, “The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman (the producer of VIII). They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well."

 

He also said, “The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did Force Awakens, was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about."

 

At SWC 2019, Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that Emperor Palaptine's return had been planned "from the beginning".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kathleen Kennedy said it was "in the cards for a long time" - not from the beginning. Chris Terrio had been very clear that it was concieved in story meeting when he was brought on-board, which by the time of the trailer's release could be considered "for a long time."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

She failed to control her fear and anger multiple times in every film.

 

And what consequences did she suffer as a result?

 

Really the only time we ever see her come anywhere close to being a human being with vulnerabilities is when she thinks she killed Chewie in TROS. It's basically a moment of failure that shocks her and depresses her, until of course we find out he survived and she's off the hook. But other than that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JJ was confirmed as director and co-writer January 2013. The screenplay for TFA was completed January 2014. That's when Palpatine's influence and return was locked in.

 

@Chen G., could you link that Chris Terrio quote, please?

 

Any thoughts on the first five notes of Kylo's motif being five notes in a row from The Emperor's Theme?

 

33 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

And what consequences did she suffer as a result?

 

Really the only time we ever see her come anywhere close to being a human being with vulnerabilities is when she thinks she killed Chewie in TROS. It's basically a moment of failure that shocks her and depresses her, until of course we find out he survived and she's off the hook. But other than that?

 

The dark side came naturally to Rey. She rarely controlled her selfish tendencies and anger, and it led to moments of rage that put herself and others in danger.

 

That's just it. Rey wasn't "off the hook", as she never changed. Going into her confrontation with the Emperor, she had good reason to fear herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, elvisjones said:

This is why I said I was PARAPHRASING Joseph Campbell, not quoting him exactly.

 

 

 

 

Don't let yourself get sucked into their madness, EJ - once you do, there is no returning from this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Chen G., could you link that Chris Terrio quote, please?

 

Any thoughts on the first five notes of Kylo's motif being five notes in a row from The Emperor's Theme?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Star Wars disenchantment...

 

...and in the last two days we have two new threads in this forum: 1) Happy birthday ROTS (PS. We love you, you were the best of the prequels), and 2) Happy 40th Birthday TESB (PS. We love you you were the best of the OT).

 

*sigh*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, I don't think the lack of planning of the ST would have been a huge deal *if* TROS just wasn't such a poorly conceived and executed movie. That movie does detract some of my enjoyment of the previous two, even while I know I shouldn't let that happen.

 

Also, what happened around TLJ is just... mind-boggling. I remember reading everywhere on the internet that everybody had faith in Johnson... And clearly Lucasfilm and Kennedy were in full support of him, the movie also became a financial succes... but then the internet decided it was the worst movie ever. Amazing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Star Wars disenchantment...

 

...and in the last two days we have two new threads in this forum: 1) Happy birthday ROTS (PS. We love you, you were the best of the prequels), and 2) Happy 40th Birthday TESB (PS. We love you you were the best of the OT).

 

*sigh*

 

4 minutes ago, rough cut said:

The internet was right.

 

Welcome home!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can only imagine the horror that will emerge on social media if they actually proceed with that plan.

 

...which is probably part of why they'll not do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, mstrox said:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-writer-sets-record-straight-perceived-last-jedi-jabs-1265168

 

See the third question - it's something JJ and Chris Terrio came up with.  Additionally, Colin Trevorrow's drafts have been leaked (and he's confirmed that they are indeed his drafts) and don't have Palpatine, a clear indication that this was not in the cards from the beginning.

 

Plus, @elvisjones said so, and he's a reliable source.

 

That was a 'nothing interview', with Terrio recounting only surface-level on-screen and behind-the-scenes information. He did not say that 'Rey Palpatine and the Emperor's return' was something JJ and Chris Terrio came up with.

 

The music facts reveal that, Colin Trevorrow's Palpatine-less script for Episode IX was never going to go to production. So when Trevorrow carefully said, “Bringing back the Emperor was an idea JJ brought to the table when he came on board. It’s honestly something I never considered. I commend him for it. This was a tough story to unlock, and he found the key,” he was being honest. JJ brought the Emperor to the table when “he came on board” in 2013. Mr. Trevorrow “never considered” the Emperor, Kylo's redemption, or Rey as a Palpatine because he was told not to. His Episode IX pre-production was a brainstorming exercise... and a distraction, as is all the negative/awkward press from Lucasfilm employees, much of it directed at The Last Jedi, which came out 2.5 years ago. Talk about beating a dead horse!

 

I'm truly gobsmacked that you all - as John Williams fans - can't realize that the proof of the direction of the Sequel Trilogy ended up being within John Williams' themes for the two main characters all along. But you fail to acknowledge the proof in favor of 'so-and-so said something in an interview' or 'look at that script that never went to production'.

 

The fact are the facts. The truth can be found only within the contents of (all of) the films, the official canon material, and the music. Trusting anything else as 'fact' is being naive and gullible.

 

Even when many of you adamantly doubted me about Palpatine returning and Rey being related to him, I was proven right. I'll be proven right again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The seriousness with which all this conspiratorial discussion is treated is beyond even parody at this point.  They’re just some movies that literally most people alive will never see or care about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

The seriousness with which all this conspiratorial discussion is treated is beyond even parody at this point.  They’re just some movies that literally most people alive will never see or care about.

 

If you knew what I knew, you would probably have a different assessment of this situation.

 

Star Wars fans care. Lucasfilm knows this... and chose to 'end the Skywalker Saga' with a blood Palpatine 'winning', with all of the Skywalkers dead. On top of that... JJ, Daisy Ridley, and others had the audacity to promise that it would be a "satisfying" conclusion to the Saga.

 

I'll remind you all that Episode IX's shooting title was trIXie. As with everything else from this trilogy, its naming was quite intentional, as was the final title.


On the back cover of the TROS Blu-ray: "...the riveting conclusion of the seminal Skywalker Saga, where new legends will be born and the final battle for freedom is yet to come." Seminal means "strongly influencing later developments". And "yet to come"? What can be inferred from that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could someone please post a picture of the sheet music of The Emperor's Theme with the Kylo notes in it, perhaps circled?  I am genuinely curious about this as I can't seem to find it in any of the sheet music I've looked at.  Thank you :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.