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Star Wars Disenchantment

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"Fried" and gone forever, @Chen G.? I believe Palpatine was physically killed by Rey, but isn't that what he specifically wanted her to do?

 

"...some similarities are going to crop up", like starting Rey's Theme with rising and falling minor thirds and hinting at The Imperial March at the end? And don't forget that Kylo's motif is the first five notes from measures 7 and 8 of The Emperor's Theme. Considering The Emperor's involvement/interaction with those characters, you think those were "unrelated thematic ideas"?

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The Rise of Skywalker

Palpatine: I have died before.

 

Revenge of the Sith (novelization)

Palpatine (to the Jedi as they arrive to arrest him): You don't know how long I've been waiting for this.

 

The Force Awakens

Rey: I know all about waiting... for my family. They'll be back, one day.

 

Maz Kanata (to Rey): You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could. *With your help.

*addition from the novelization

 

The Rise of Skywalker

Palpatine (to Rey): Long have I waited... my grandchild has come home! I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule, here. It is in your blood. Our blood.

 

Your hatred. Your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me and my spirit will pass into you. As all the Sith live in me. You will be Empress. We will be one.

 

Return of the Jedi

Palpatine: I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon.  Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete!

 

Revenge of the Sith

Palpatine: I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you stronger.

 

(to Anakin, as Count Dooku kneels helplessly): Kill him. Kill him now.

 

The Force Awakens (novelization)

After Rey had injured Kylo at the end: "Kill him, a voice inside her head said."
 

The Rise of Skywalker

Palpatine (to Kylo Ren): I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head.

 

Rey (attempting to commune with the Jedi of the past): Be with me. Be with me. Be with me. They're not with me.

 

Voices in Rey's head, as she stares into space: Rise! Rise! Rise!
 

Revenge of the Sith

Palpatine: Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth Vader. Rise.

 

Return of the Jedi

Palpatine: Rise, my friend.

 

The Rise of Skywalker

Palpatine: Do not fear the feeble attack, my faithful. Nothing will stop the return of the Sith!

 

 

Aftermath: Empire's End  (novel released February 2017)

 

Immediately prior to the Battle of Jakku - at a Sith ceremony - Palpatine-appointed Galius Rax is speaking to Tashu, one of the Emperor's advisors:

 
"You must be clothed in the raiment of darkness," Rax says. "The mantle of the dark side is yours to wear, at least for a time. At least until we can find Palpatine and revivify him, bringing his soul back to flesh anew."

 

 

Starting to get it now?

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Return if the Jedi brought the Original Trilogy to a close. Emperor Palpatine, The Devil of Star Wars, would not have been defeated so easily.

 

You have completely misjudged the Sequel Trilogy... and underestimated Lucasfilm. Period.

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

The sequel trilogy ruins rotj closure like kotcs ruined the last crusade closure. Period.

 

This is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

 

The Sequel Trilogy continues the narrative of Episodes I through VI. The Indiana Jones films are separate, largely-unrelated adventures.

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12 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The Sequel Trilogy continues the narrative of Episodes I through VI. T

 

You can't continue a narrative that had concluded.

 

Its the equivalent of a sequel to The Return of the King. Its preposterous.

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You keep saying that, but the narrative did continue... whether or not you like it or understand it.

 

After Palpatine said, "Those who gain power are afraid to loose it" and spoke of 'cheating death', the narrative that had previously 'concluded' with VI was completely re-conceptualized. The Emperor - ruler of the Galactic Empire and Sith Master - would not have baited Luke, Vader, and the Rebel Fleet to kill him so easily, had he not had a Contingency plan to survive to keep his power. The story continued.

 

Get on board with reality... or continue blathering to no avail. You will not beat Lucasfilm on this... or me.

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@Mattris, when you first saw Revenge of the Sith, did it leave you with the sense that there clearly ought to be sequels to pay off this supposed loose-end, or did you just come up with this reasoning after-the-fact?

 

Because after-the-fact reasoning is no reasoning at all. You could justify everything after the fact if you try hard enough. If a franchise is any good, it won't require you to do it in order to enjoy it.

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What? If someone comes to understand something (a certain topic, book, film, etc.) long after first being exposed to it, that person can't take credit for having eventually realized or learned that 'something'? Bollocks.

 

Enough teasing. This is what really occurred in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy:

 

Force-strong 'nobody from nowhere' Rey, ever selfish and naive, fell victim to the power of the dark side. Having cheated death, Emperor Palpatine meticulously stoked the feelings, desires, and fears of his pawns and enemies, eliminated the entire Skywalker family, and eventually succeeded in his Grand Plan to regain full strength by moving his spirit into a blood-relative body in an effort to rebuild the Sith Order and retake the galaxy for himself to rule over. Or should I say 'herself'?

 

It seems nearly everyone in the world missed what happened right in front of their faces due to complete and utter underestimation of JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, Lucasfilm, and John Williams.

 

The makers of these movies have tricked the masses, including you, @Chen G.. You may be in denial now. But continuing to engage with me will result in you struggling to wrap your head around how all this could have been possible. You're such an intellectual guy! You understand Star Wars. Right?

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I'm frankly disappointed. I was looking forward to something much, much more convoluted, twisty and conspiratory than this.

 

However, this:

 

6 hours ago, Mattris said:

You may be in denial now.

 

May be the funniest sentence posted on JWFan.

 

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@Mattris  You're an idiot.  There's no way Star Wars is going to continue with Rey actually hosting Palpatine's soul.

 

If you thought fans were upset about TLJ, imagine the rolling eyes if that were to happen.  

 

The yellow lightsaber symbolizes that she's a Jedi. 

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15 minutes ago, Demodex said:

The yellow lightsaber symbolizes that she's a Jedi. 

 

Not to mention the bloody (and groan-inducing) final line: "Rey S K Y W A L K E R."

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36 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

That was one of the few things I liked. 

I've got nothing against that, either.

Anyone can identify with anyone else. People change their names, every day, via Deed Poll. Imo, in calling herself Skywalker, Rey chose to identify with some of the few people who had ever shown her kindness - Luke and Leia. She probably saw her actions as a form of repayment, or a "life debt", as Qui Gon put it.    Furthermore, she was, by implication, allying herself with Ben, and consciously rejecting her ancestry.

Personally, I don't blame her.

I've followed this thread with great interest (see what I did, there? :)), and, if the claims of some (and by "some", I mean  "one in particular") are true, then we can only come to one inescapable conclusion: the ST was, in fact, planned this way.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

This thread will be closed if you guys personally insult each other.


Remember: Just because someone says something on the internet that you disagree with, doesn't mean you have to respond to it.  You could always close the thread and read a different one instead.


You all continuing to engage with Matriss has kept this thread going and going, nothing else has.

 

I've always interpreted Matriss as a collective, internal manifestation of our conflicted feelings about Star Wars...a jailer within our own minds. As long as our internal hatred and confusion persist, Matriss will exist. Why else does he only appear in this thread? If this thread even truly exists. Only those who have this spiritual anguish are able to perceive it. 

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

I'm frankly disappointed. I was looking forward to something much, much more convoluted, twisty and conspiratory than this.

 

When I theorized that, "Emperor Palpatine meticulously stoked the feelings, desires, and fears of his pawns and enemies" in this trilogy, what do you think I meant, specifically?

 

This question is directed to everyone.

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I thought you were having delusions of grandeur.  

 

I think the only people he affected were Kylo directly and Rey indirectly. He didn't have much to do with the Resistance. 

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1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

I've always interpreted Matriss as a collective, internal manifestation of our conflicted feelings about Star Wars...a jailer within our own minds. As long as our internal hatred and confusion persist, Matriss will exist. Why else does he only appear in this thread? If this thread even truly exists. Only those who have this spiritual anguish are able to perceive it. 

 

You are very lose to correctly answering my question above. Just replace *my name with "Palpatine", Star Wars with "ourselves", and "in this thread" with "during moments of weakness".

 

* Mattris - not Matriss

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@Chen G., I suggest you watch the trilogy again with the knowledge that there were no ludicrous coincidences, no Jedi Force ghosts, no Jedi voices from the past, no instances of the Force showing visions of the future or past, no 'memory of Han' seen by his son, no lightsabers 'calling to Rey', and no natural desire for Finn to protect Rey.

 

Emperor Palpatine was responsible for all of this, violating his subjects' minds: showing, tempting, seducing, stoking, and manipulating. But he never made the characters take action. They always had free will. Sounds like The Devil to me.

 

How's that for "convoluted, twisty and conspiratory"?

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11 hours ago, Demodex said:

Well I'll eat a hat if Episodes 10-12 portray Rey as having absorbed Palpatine's soul. 

 

I still say Rey being a Palpatine wasn't a plan until after Episode 8. 

 

What if that only occurs in Episode X?

 

Do you think JJ and (Palpatine screenwriter) Lawrence Kasdan had no identity planned for Rey, a mysterious, Force-strong girl, who had an English accent and dark side tendencies?

 

An excerpt from The Force Awakens novelization, after Rey had injured Kylo:

 

"One downward cut, she saw. One quick, final strike, and she could kill him. The landing lights of a shuttle appeared in the distance, coming over the trees in her direction. She had to make a decision, now.

Kill him, a voice inside her head said. It was amorphous, unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. So easy, she told herself. So quick.

She recoiled from it. From the dark side."

 

Knowing that Palpatine said those very words to Anakin (when ordering him to execute Count Dooku) and that Palpatine formed a strong hatred for the Skywalkers after what happened at the Battle of Endor, what do you make of this?

 

10 hours ago, Demodex said:

I think the only people he affected were Kylo directly and Rey indirectly. He didn't have much to do with the Resistance. 

 

An excerpt from The Rise of Skywalker novelization, after Poe had been promoted to Acting General of the Resistance due to Leia's passing:

 

"Suddenly, a memory of Leia popped into his mind, clear as day, and he imagined her voice so deeply and profoundly it was almost like she was standing right there. Failure is the greatest teacher, she said."

 

That's just what (Jedi tree-destroying by lightning summoned by the Force) Yoda told Luke in The Last Jedi... the same Yoda that greeted Luke with, "Young Skywalker."

 

"And now I sense you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker."

"Welcome, young Skywalker. I have been expecting you."

"Now, young Skywalker... you will die."

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Yoda calls anakin that throughout the whole prequel trilogy and clone wars.

 

Mattris dont continue this dark path you jave set yourself....in 20 years, when the new trilogy ruins the saga again and radically differs how you want it to continue, you will be deeply embarrased to remebember the things you are saying now. 

 

I have been there, done that... That's lost time I will never retrieve....

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Yoda never called Luke "young Skywalker". In fact, it was Yoda who said that Luke was "too old to begin the training."

In Return of the Jedi, The Emperor referred to Luke as "young Skywalker" in all but one instance. (The other being "Jedi".)

 

For the first time in Star Wars history, a Force ghost physically interacted with the 'real world' by summoning lightning to destroy the sacred Jedi tree in a blaze of fireprecisely as Luke's Jedi school was destroyed. (A canon comic confirmed that Snoke was responsible for that destruction. We know now that Snoke was actually Palpatine.)

 

Many Star Wars fans are currently feeling 'lost time that won't be retrieved' being pessimistic and cynical after seeing the... quite unexpected Sequel Trilogy. From experience, I know that this mindset is born out of a lack of effort to better understand the themes, characters, and story of the Saga.

 

Rather than continuing to complain and be angry, I chose to consume - and enjoy! - the clue-filled canon material that Lucasfilm released for the "best and brightest" fans to "pass the test" they presented. Doing so led me to illumination and a hopeful outlook... out of the doldrums of disenchantment.

 

Many here have attempted to deny the legitimacy of my assessments. But lately, my track record has been pretty good. When the record is officially straightened by Lucasfilm, I seriously doubt it will be me who is "deeply embarrassed".

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Well see what happens to the canon expanded universe when disney o whomever owns the property in 40 years from now on want to make more films afresh...or even reboot the saga....

 

But yes the yoda theory is so wild...i will leave this thread heheheh

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It absolutely does, Nick, but only because I figured it out Lucasfilm's "con" - not because I like that others are ignorant and/or disappointed with the films.

 

Do you have any thoughts on my theories and observations?

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22 hours ago, rough cut said:

Let’s just all move on and complain about how Star Wars doesn’t make us feel the way it did when we were kids anymore.

Oh, I don't know. Put me in a cinema, with THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK playing in 70mm and 6-track magnetic, and I'll soon start feeling how I did, in 1980.

Memories don't age.

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1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

Oh you know one of them is perfectly willing and able to go toe to toe with you in pedantry and semantics for the remainder of time. It's like watching two blind people have a staring contest.


No, I think I’m good.

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@Chen G., after you said "I'm frankly disappointed. I was looking forward to something much, much more convoluted, twisty and conspiratory than this", and I delivered in spades... your silence speaks volumes.

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By choosing not to be 'that guy' anymore, I will assume you no longer think I'm wrong.

 

If you still think I'm wrong, walking away now - after engaging with me for over 2 years in this thread - indicates that my latest postings have fried your brain, and you cannot legitimately dispute my evidence-supported conclusions or formulate a response that bolsters your claim that 'they had no plan for this trilogy'.

 

On 5/31/2018 at 9:10 AM, Chen G. said:

I should clarify that a character can be well performed and still be un-interesting; furthermore, a character can be interesting, but be faced with a story that doesn't challenge the character and therefore fails to maintain the audience's interest.

 

That's why the narrative is more important than the performances or even the characters themselves.

 

I agree.

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34 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I will assume you no longer think I'm wrong.

 

If you still think I'm wrong, walking away now - after engaging with me for over 2 years in this thread - indicates that my latest postings have fried your brain, and you cannot legitimately dispute my evidence-supported conclusions

 

All I'm going to say is no; on all accounts.

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