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Star Wars Disenchantment


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I know, I know. I'm just trying to speak @Mattris language.

 

He believes "this film" was shot back-to-back with The Rise of Skywalker, which would mean that its in post-production for a year by now, which (even with COVID and all) is a hell of a lot of time to work on a film without so much as getting around to produce a teaser.

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I don't understand why he won't just tell us his big shocking reveal?  

There is absolutely no reason to not tell us his big theory. 

 

Wait. There is. It's because he's completely lying about this big theory that we all are missing. 

 

Or if it's real watch it be something lame like everything in the whole SW universe happened because of Palpatine using the Force to make it happen. 🙄

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38 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I know, I know. I'm just trying to speak @Mattris language.

 

He believes "this film" was shot back-to-back with The Rise of Skywalker, which would mean that its in post-production for a year by now, which (even with COVID and all) is a hell of a lot of time to work on a film without so much as getting around to produce a teaser.

 

So. Okay. Just playing Devil's Advocate here for the record, but it can absolutely happen that a trailer could come out VERY shortly before a film.

 

No one even knew Cloverfield Paradox existed before Netflix dropped the trailer for it the day of the film's premiere on the service, and it was a Paramount film originally. I know, it's Netflix, but still.

 

Obviously, Star Wars is a much bigger deal and much harder to keep a secret. Not to mention that I do not believe a word of it, but the only thing that would dictate a teaser coming out by now is tradition, nothing more. There's no hard rules that say a trailer would've had to have been out by now.

 

If there were, for a better example, Godzilla Vs Kong would have a damn trailer out by now. Lol. That's a film that is confirmed to be out in just 2 months, which wrapped production in April of 2019 and we have 3 seconds of fully CGI footage. Films do absolutely sit around fully finished sometimes as well for one reason or another (For example, most big budget films that were supposed to come out last year), but Episode X is certainly not one of them. Just to be clear.

 

EDIT: Sigh. He liked my post. I shouldn't have said anything. I don't want to support this. Lol.

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16 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

So. Okay. Just playing Devil's Advocate here for the record, but it can absolutely happen that a trailer could come out VERY shortly before a film.

 

 

Yeah, but 13+ months in post-production?! Not until we have Terrence Malick's Star Wars.

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19 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, but 13+ months in post-production?! Not until we have Terrence Malick's Star Wars.

 

Well. When I said this:

35 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

Films do absolutely sit around fully finished sometimes as well for one reason or another

 

And when I mentioned Godzilla Vs Kong. I meant that just because they wrapped at the same time as Ep 9, doesn't mean that they've been in Post-Production this entire time. I mean, again, we've got fully finished films sitting around thanks to COVID. I highly doubt they're still working on them through all this. So, I suppose in this little fantasy world that doesn't exist, they went into post after 9 came out and have finished the film, but delayed putting it out due to COVID. I can certainly recall films that were fully finished, but had a delayed release a couple times for one reason or another. Like I said, it's all about the tradition of the film industry. Normally, yeah, it's supposed to work where they shoot the movie, they finish it, maybe put a teaser and trailer out somewhere in there while they work on it, then they release it, but there's no rules that says it has to work that way and those traditions have been broken a couple of times. I feel like more so in recent years.

 

Again, to be clear, Episode 10 is not in post-production (nor has it been), it's not done and waiting in the wings, and they didn't shoot it when they shot Episode 9. There's just no way in hell they'd get away with that. No way in hell. But it's not because we haven't seen anything yet and it's not because of the implication that they may have been in post for 13+ months. I don't want to hang up on those things and focus too much on them, because they could happen. There's so many other things at play that immediately break this theory.

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8 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

Again, to be clear, Episode 10 is not in post-production (nor has it been), it's not done and waiting in the wings, and they didn't shoot it when they shot Episode 9. There's just no way in hell they'd get away with that. No way in hell.

 

Absolutely, we're all just playing devil's advocate here. I don't for a second believe Episode X was shot.

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Isn't it amazing how much power and attention these guys are giving this guy?

 

Lol. Yeah, you're right. I avoided it for so long. Idk why I finally gave in.

 

I immediately was like "What have I done?" when he liked my post.

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Me neither. Third lockdown has a tendency to do that to people.

 

But I try not to get into very long discussions with Mattris: just pointing out that even he will have to admit he's wrong if nothing comes out about Episode X within the next month or so.

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36 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

... he will have to admit he's wrong if nothing comes out about Episode X within the next month or so.

 

We were told by Lucasfilm that the Saga is finished, at the very least, for a long time. How exactly would not seeing promotion/leaks by March make me "wrong"?

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Almost everything, including the entire plot, of TROS leaked many months in advance. What are the odds that a second film was magically already completed and we have literally zero evidence that it exists aside from your word?

 

Wait, I know what you're going to say... "they purposely leaked TROS' plot!" ROTFLMAO

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5 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Almost everything, including the entire plot, of TROS leaked many months in advance. What are the odds that a second film was magically already completed and we have literally zero evidence that it exists aside from your word?

 

Wait, I know what you're going to say... "they purposely leaked TROS' plot!" ROTFLMAO

 

I was thinking the same thing. Besides the plot leaks we had tons of paparazzi photos of exterior sets and what not as well. There's no way we wouldn't have gotten some of those.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Because you don't do post-production on a film for so long.

 

I didn't claim the film's post-production was talking longer than usual. But even if they were taking their time, it wouldn't mean the film 'must not exist' because it wasn't released - or its marketing hadn't started - by a certain date that you would expect. The whole point of the movie existing at all is part of the surprise.

 

54 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Almost everything, including the entire plot, of TROS leaked many months in advance. What are the odds that a second film was magically already completed and we have literally zero evidence that it exists aside from your word?

 

Wait, I know what you're going to say... "they purposely leaked TROS' plot!"

 

Now you're catching on! The fact that the story did 'leak' so completely resulted in the audience thinking that Disney/Lucasfilm was incompetent about yet another  facet of this 'disaster of a Star Wars trilogy'. The real purpose of this would be to create yet another distraction... from their real plans.

 

But think about it. If an Episode X was intended to be made... and in the near future, wouldn't it make sense to film it with all of the cast and crew already assembled, rather than attempt to do it later and in secret? This certainly would be a wise financial decision.

 

And it goes without saying that if an Episode X was made in plain view, the surprise factor - that the Saga continues! - would be completely lost. Now what would be the fun in that?

 

48 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

I was thinking the same thing. Besides the plot leaks we had tons of paparazzi photos of exterior sets and what not as well. There's no way we wouldn't have gotten some of those.

 

What about the interior sets? What if the exterior sets for IX were also used for X? Are you really going to base your predictions on the competency of the paparazzi?

 

Slightly off-topic... What was the consensus regarding the ludicrous amount of extra 'leftover' TROS score?

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4 hours ago, Chen G. said:

But I try not to get into very long discussions with Mattris:

 

Oh don't pretend! You've been having this tat-for-tat with him for months, and we warned you then! You're in denial, chief.

 

34 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Slightly off-topic... What was the consensus regarding the ludicrous amount of extra 'leftover' TROS score?

 

From the sounds of it, similar to TFA, we might have enough for practically another score waiting to be released! If we've gotten from both so far is an accurate indication, these might be some of the most interesting alternate scores ever released. 

 

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2 hours ago, Mattris said:

Slightly off-topic... What was the consensus regarding the ludicrous amount of extra 'leftover' TROS score?

 

It's certainly not for Episode 10 thats for sure. What's there to have a consensus on? He wrote an addition hour of score for what I assume was his original intentions. What we ended up with was revisions on top of revisions. That's about it. I mean, it's probably marvelous and would be extremely interesting to listen to, but there's no big secret hidden in there and the amount is hardly "ludicrous".

 

1 hour ago, DarthDementous said:

Question for the disillusioned, what would it take, if anything, for you to be back on board with the franchise?

 

Honestly? Step back, let it breath, and handle one thing at a time. I don't want any more big Star Wars movies for a couple years, but I'm a casual fan. Not nearly as invested as most are. I only got invested because of TFA and we know where that went. Lol.

 

Maybe you can have a series going on at Disney+ or something at the same time as the next set of films, but focus all your attention into actually planning out a series of connected films with the same Director for all of them. ONE cohesive vision. And focus on that. As fun and cool as the "Star Wars Story" films were, leave it alone. OR, focus exclusively on one-off Star Wars films. They're pumping out and trying to take on too much crap at a time.

 

Also, and maybe this is just me, but I am done with the Skywalkers and Palpatine and whatever else we've had. Give me new characters and new story and let's move on.

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20 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

I'd say it is! We practically have a rejected score, but the same composer picked up the pieces!

 

Wasn't 135 minutes of music recorded for the final movie?

 

Then it turned out the total was just over three hours? I'd hardly call that an entire rejected score. It's half of the score and I'm not expecting something ENTIRELY different. Probably more just different placements of themes. Maybe an unused theme or two. I've certainly heard of scores going far over the final runtime for one reason or another.

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3 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

It's certainly not for Episode 10 thats for sure. What's there to have a consensus on? He wrote an addition hour of score for what I assume was his original intentions. What we ended up with was revisions on top of revisions. That's about it. I mean, it's probably marvelous and would be extremely interesting to listen to, but there's no big secret hidden in there and the amount is hardly "ludicrous".

 

 

Honestly? Step back, let it breath, and handle one thing at a time. I don't want any more big Star Wars movies for a couple years, but I'm a casual fan. Not nearly as invested as most are. I only got invested because of TFA and we know where that went. Lol.

 

Maybe you can have a series going on at Disney+ or something at the same time as the next set of films, but focus all your attention into actually planning out a series of connected films with the same Director for all of them. ONE cohesive vision. And focus on that. As fun and cool as the "Star Wars Story" films were, leave it alone. OR, focus exclusively on one-off Star Wars films. They're pumping out and trying to take on too much crap at a time.

 

Also, and maybe this is just me, but I am done with the Skywalkers and Palpatine and whatever else we've had. Give me new characters and new story and let's move on.


Agreed. At first I thought they'd learnt their lesson when their attention shifted to focusing on The Mandalorian in Season 1, but then as of Season 2 they've just gone balls to the wall with the cinematic universe nonsense again which shows that they've learned nothing

The only glimmer of interest in the new stuff I have so far is that the High Republic 'Light of the Jedi' audiobook I'm almost halfway listening through has been quite good, and I would love to see something more substantial set in this era like a movie or game because I think they've done a pretty good job fleshing it out, and it forces them to not rely heavily on pre-established characters


For me to be totally on board with the franchise again it would take something that I think is beneficial to both the consumer and the brand - re-open the continuity of the EU so that authors, game developers, and hell even directors, can add onto the original EU. That way people can choose which 'continuity line' they prefer and all the money goes back to the same source. So much good-will was lost when they discontinued the EU and this would be an incredibly effective step for a lot of fans I reckon.

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2 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

I'd say it is! We practically have a rejected score, but the same composer picked up the pieces!

 

Under what circumstances could there be 'a rejected John Williams score' for a film that was in pre-production for a year - not including Trevorrow's version - and took 6.5 months to film? Did those 5 weeks of reshoots change the film so drastically?

 

Was it like, "Hey, John. We like what you've done, but we don't like what we originally gave you to conclude the Saga. Here's another movie. Please compose and record another 90 minutes. Whoops! But don't worry, we'll give you a great bonus!"

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50 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Did those 5 weeks of reshoots change the film so drastically

 

And edits, as following the tradition of TFA. There were drastic differences in cuts up to November 2019.

 

50 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Was it like, "Hey, John. We like what you've done, but we don't like what we originally gave you to conclude the Saga. Here's another movie. Please compose and record another 90 minutes. Whoops! But don't worry, we'll give you a great bonus!"

 

Naw, it was more like, "Hey John, it's your best bud JJ here. You know I'm a big fan and think you're a genius, right? Of course you do. Hey, so listen, it turns out I really don't know what movie I'm trying to make here, even though I co-wrote the damn thing. You're cool if I just endlessly shift around and change giant chunks of the movie, as I always have, right? Oh, and if on top of you taking months to score these multiple revisions, still hack it up further? Oh, and replace music with stuff you've already written? Oh, and turn the music mix down? Oh, and we all hate Rian Johnson, right? Even though he campaigned for your score for his movie to get an isolated score, something incredibly rare in your whole career, and some of the best treatment your music's gotten in a film in the 21st century?

Remember, John, it's my greatest privilege in my life to work with you!"

 

 

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10 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

Question for the disillusioned, what would it take, if anything, for you to be back on board with the franchise?


I was disillusioned by a Star Wars trilogy once, and the answer was: distancing myself completely  from Star Wars for a few years, and then eventually dipping my toes back in.

 

Disney hasn’t disillusioned me in that way - for me, they’ve released three excellent movies, one okay movie, and one stinker, in that order - and one excellent TV show.  Their comics via Marvel and IDW are better than what Dark Horse ever put out.  Their animation has been mostly hit (Rebels, TCW s7) and some miss (Resisistance). Overall, that’s a pretty good hit ratio IMO.

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59 minutes ago, mstrox said:


I was disillusioned by a Star Wars trilogy once, and the answer was: distancing myself completely  from Star Wars for a few years, and then eventually dipping my toes back in.

 

Disney hasn’t disillusioned me in that way - for me, they’ve released three excellent movies, one okay movie, and one stinker, in that order - and one excellent TV show.  Their comics via Marvel and IDW are better than what Dark Horse ever put out.  Their animation has been mostly hit (Rebels, TCW s7) and some miss (Resisistance). Overall, that’s a pretty good hit ratio IMO.

I mean...I did ask that question to the people that were disillusioned by Disney Star Wars

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43 minutes ago, mstrox said:

And I was making a suggestion to them.  Disillusioned?  Step away for a while!  It worked for me.

 

Sounds good to me. I'll keep checking out new scores though.

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7 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Naw, it was more like, "Hey John, it's your best bud JJ here. You know I'm a big fan and think you're a genius, right? Of course you do. Hey, so listen, it turns out I really don't know what movie I'm trying to make here, even though I co-wrote the damn thing. You're cool if I just endlessly shift around and change giant chunks of the movie, as I always have, right? Oh, and if on top of you taking months to score these multiple revisions, still hack it up further? Oh, and replace music with stuff you've already written? Oh, and turn the music mix down? Oh, and we all hate Rian Johnson, right? Even though he campaigned for your score for his movie to get an isolated score, something incredibly rare in your whole career, and some of the best treatment your music's gotten in a film in the 21st century?

Remember, John, it's my greatest privilege in my life to work with you!"

 

It's a bit unfair to pin the blame all on J.J., as far as I've heard he questioned some of the decisions that ultimately ended up in the final film. Like the X-Wing lift. That was a music editor's idea and I bet the studio ate it up. We won't know just how much Disney was to blame for all this.

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On 1/20/2021 at 1:18 AM, Nick Parker said:

And edits, as following the tradition of TFA. There were drastic differences in cuts up to November 2019.

 

What evidence do you have of "drastic differences in cuts up to November 2019"?

 

As reported here: https://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-was-edited-on-set-despite-initial-objection-by-j-j-abrams/ , TROS editor Maryann Brandon revealed that she was cutting part of the movie on set while it was still being shot. This is something Abrams has never done before, but this time it was almost required due to the post-production time crunch caused by the film's shooting schedule.

 

Again, the film's shoot was 6.5 months (not including the 5 weeks of reshoots) for a film just a bit over 2 hours (plus credits). And they still felt rushed? The novelization confirms that the few 'deleted/un-filmed scenes' were of little importance. So what could be reason for the 'rush'?

 

On 1/20/2021 at 1:18 AM, Nick Parker said:

Naw, it was more like, "Hey John, it's your best bud JJ here. You know I'm a big fan and think you're a genius, right? Of course you do. Hey, so listen, it turns out I really don't know what movie I'm trying to make here, even though I co-wrote the damn thing. You're cool if I just endlessly shift around and change giant chunks of the movie, as I always have, right? Oh, and if on top of you taking months to score these multiple revisions, still hack it up further? Oh, and replace music with stuff you've already written? Oh, and turn the music mix down? Oh, and we all hate Rian Johnson, right? Even though he campaigned for your score for his movie to get an isolated score, something incredibly rare in your whole career, and some of the best treatment your music's gotten in a film in the 21st century?

Remember, John, it's my greatest privilege in my life to work with you!"

 

JJ Abrams, the Executive Producer of the trilogy, didn't know what movie he was trying to make? What does that even mean? Again, from the time he was officially announced as the writer/director, JJ had a full year to write the film and personally consulted with George Lucas. Knowledgeable Star Wars fan and experienced screenwriter, Chris Terrio, was brought on as co-writer. It was a staple for Terrio to have on-hand the Star Wars canon material books. Concluding that 'they didn't know what they were doing with the plot and sequencing of the film during production - and even throughout post-production' - is patently and utterly absurd.

 

Is there evidence of 'taking months to score multiple revisions of the film', with additional editing to take place that drastically affected the amount of score that John Williams would be required to compose? The fact that the finished film contains a significant number of music edits leads me to believe that JJ and his team 'made do' with the music that had been recorded. I seriously doubt respected film composer John Williams would have been asked to write such an exorbitant amount of additional score due to utter incompetency by JJ.

 

On this point, Williams said:


"When we made the first [Star Wars] film, none of us had any idea there was going to be a second film. All sorts of mysteries have been unraveled in the course of these. At the present time, I'm working on the ninth version of it. It's promised by Disney that this will be the last one. It certainly will be the last one that I will do. I told JJ Abrams (who is the director), 'JJ, I will will sign on a little bow on the locks of this.' It's a fabulous film. You remember The Force Awakens, he did such a great job of introducing the cast, Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley, which was so fresh and had such wonderful comedy. And they did it again in this one. But J.J. changes scenes a lot, and we've already recorded with the orchestra a hundred minutes of music - which is a lot - and in the next month or so I have to do forty more minutes. So I have to go back to California tomorrow to my other job."

 

So as of the end of August, Williams spoke of 140 minutes that he would be required to compose. So in the last 3 months of post production, you're saying that he would need to compose yet another 90+ minutes of score? Ridiculous. This simply doesn't add up.

 

The total amount of music that Williams was said to have composed 'for IX' did not need to be revealed to the public. I can only rationalize this information as a clue  that the 'leftover/dropped music' was composed for something else.

 

The tiny bit of tracked music and low (in your opinion) music mix aside, how much controversy can one movie have? Is there any aspect of this film that isn't controversial... or the entire trilogy, for that matter?

 

At that same Tanglewood concert, John Williams also said:

 

“J.J. Abrams is directing the new film, and I must say he's doing a fantastic job. I won't say anything about it, other than that the ending will just put you all away. I think you will love it.”

 

What do you think be meant by that? (We all know what I think: Palpatine won, and the Saga will continue shortly.)

 

Bottom line: The seemingly endless number of 'questionable things' concerning the production of this trilogy lead me to conclude that it's all a ruse... a distraction from their real plans.

 

On 1/20/2021 at 8:57 AM, TSMefford said:

It's a bit unfair to pin the blame all on J.J., as far as I've heard he questioned some of the decisions that ultimately ended up in the final film. Like the X-Wing lift. That was a music editor's idea and I bet the studio ate it up. We won't know just how much Disney was to blame for all this.

 

'You heard' from whom?

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On 1/20/2021 at 9:42 PM, TSMefford said:

This means nothing. Being edited while the film was shot doesn't mean there were never re-edits or fixes after the fact. Also, we have a cue-list from RoS that shows how different the order was for a Nov 11th cut from the final film. AND that cue list already looks like it's out of order and jumbled from what came before that. The film appears to be an editing nightmare, hence the numerous re-writes. It appears that even though they edited while they shot, someone (whether it be J.J., the producers, Disney, who knows) wanted to basically completely redo the film order.

 

What "means nothing"? I didn't say 'The fact that the film was being edited while it was shot doesn't mean there were never re-edits or fixes after the fact'. It just implies that significant changes to those particular scenes/sequences would not need massive editing alterations, certainly not deep into post-production. Without major changes, an entirely different score would not be required. So why so much extra score, a swath of cues that remain a mystery to this day?

 

Could you link to the "cue-list from RoS that shows how different the order was for a Nov 11th cut from the final film ... that looks like it's out of order and jumbled from what came before that"? It follows that Lucasfilm (or Williams' people) would only release something like this if they wanted you so see it... so that the audience would infer that they were incompetent, indecisive, or at the very least, unnecessarily rushed in their process to complete a Star Wars film 'that would finish the Saga'... after firing the previous writer/director after he had worked on the project for years.

 

What "numerous re-writes"? What do you mean "completely redo the film order"?

 

Once again, it is my educated assessment that the fans 'know' what Lucasfilm wants you to think. This mantra is wide-reaching and applies to many aspects of Star Wars. If JJ 'questioned' the inclusion of the 'Yoda raising the X-wing' music, it was in the context of 'Are we throwing off the fans in the right way with such an obvious nostalgia play of that cherished scene/music cue?'

 

On 1/20/2021 at 9:47 PM, The Big Man said:

Obviously all this indicates Star Wars has much deeper meaning and contains the great mysteries of life and death.

 

It does. But you wouldn't think so if you asked the fans.

 

@Nick Parker, I look forward to your response to my previous post.

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27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

It just implies that significant changes to those particular scenes/sequences would not need massive editing alterations, certainly not deep into post-production. Without major changes, an entirely different score would not be required. So why so much extra score, a swath of cues that remain a mystery to this day?

 

Why would that imply that? That makes no sense. Just because you edit on set doesn't mean that those scenes could never need to change significantly. You edit on set to 1.) Have a rough cut ready to go faster, but also 2.) To make sure you get an idea for other shots you may need to get / holes to fill while you're shooting. It's mostly an efficiency tool. Sounds like producers wanted to see results as quickly as possible. You don't edit on the set and say "Oh yeah it's locked and ready to go." Also no one said those extra minutes are an entirely different score. In my opinion they're likely just earlier versions of many cues that may be longer or shorter depending on scene lengths and contain alternate themes depending on where they may have been located in the film.

 

Sigh. This is my last post in here. I never should've engaged with this. Ridiculous. 

 

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Could you link to the "cue-list from RoS that shows how different the order was for a Nov 11th cut from the final film ... that looks like it's out of order and jumbled from what came before that"? 

 

What "numerous re-writes"? What do you mean "completely redo the film order"?

 

It's a thread in the John Williams section. Surely you've seen it, considering your research into this. It's got cues from other reels moved around all over the place, which implies that the film and/or the music was completely rearranged from the original intentions aka the original "edits on the set." That many changes is more than enough to result in a good amount of extra music / alternates / revisions / whatever you wanna call it. This list is also pretty good evidence that the cut was changing constantly, even up to the last recording session days.

 

It is not unusual for composers to write far more music than the film can hold, whether due to re-writes, ideas, cut scenes, etc. The total amount (which includes the cues that do appear in the final film) is substantial, but not surprising for a film with that much going on. But I suppose that's what they want us to think.

 

I'm done now. lol You guys have fun with this.

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23 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

The best thing that The Mouse could do, is to sell Lucasfilm back to Lucas (at a greatly reduced price, of course :D), and let further Star Wars films be made by someone who actually knows what they are doing.


Lol ... let the endless tinkering begin! 

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On 1/20/2021 at 6:53 AM, Naïve Old Fart said:

The best thing that The Mouse could do, is to sell Lucasfilm back to Lucas (at a greatly reduced price, of course :D), and let further Star Wars films be made by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

 

George Lucas was Kathleen Kennedy's business associate of 32 years when he handed her the keys to his castle. On-camera, she promised him that she would carry on his vision by 'honoring his stories and characters in the way he created them'.

 

Do you honestly believe that Kathleen Kennedy immediately betrayed George Lucas, proceeded to make an unnecessary trilogy without a plan, "hornswoggled" Mark Hamill, stoked/allowed seemingly-endless controversy (badly dividing the fandom), and intended to end the Saga in the same manner as Return Of The Jedi... but with the entire Solo/Skywalker family dead and an undeserving, untrained, aggressive, naïve Rey Palpatine winning the day by killing the villain who wanted to be killed by her, and taking 'Skywalker' as her surname?

 

And let's not forget that Rey was encouraged by 'voices in her head' who told her to "Rise!" (one of Emperor Palpatine's catch words of the Saga) after the Sith Master revealed to Kylo Ren, "I have been every voice you have ever heard inside your head." Also... given the chance to strike down Kylo Ren the year before, from The Force Awakens novelization"Kill him, a voice in her head said." (Exactly the words Palpatine used when commanding Anakin to kill Count Dooku.)

 

Or... Could it be that the masses of complaining/disappointed/ disenchanted fans actually don't understand Star Wars nearly as well as they thought... and played right into Lucasfilm's hands, with the most significant 'Gotcha!'  in entertainment history as the result? To complete this trick in its final decade, George Lucas would just need to act like he was "betrayed" while trusting his loyal (former) employees to complete the Saga, as he intended. How devious!

 

Think about this. Which scenario is more likely?

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On 1/19/2021 at 7:48 PM, DarthDementous said:

Question for the disillusioned, what would it take, if anything, for you to be back on board with the franchise?

 

I just keep enjoying the old stuff I like, and don’t expect to get into any of the new stuff. Not sure if that means I am or am not on board with the franchise. Probably mostly not. I’d buy a nice blu-ray set of the unaltered OT. I’d buy deluxe editions of the Thrawn and X-Wing books from the 90s, or the Han Solo books from the 70s. Soundtracks, obviously. But as for getting into the new stories, nah, can’t really think of anything that would interest me. Maybe something with Mark Hamill set pre-TLJ?

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They are doomed anyway. And even if they decided to re-do the sequels all over. They had exactly one chance to do a sequel trilogy with Williams on board for the soundtrack. They will never get that again. That is, what matters most to me. And they screwed it up.

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1 hour ago, TSMefford said:

Was it really? Ugh. I still haven't seen it. Looked utterly uninteresting to me. Knowing me I'll probably still like RoS better regardless.

They’re really not comparable in the sense each movie is trying to do completely different things

 

The impressive thing about Joker’s box office is that it was an R rated movie, and due to the restrictive nature of those they almost never do as well - so that’s a testament to the movie’s influence

 

I’d recommend Joker personally, I think it achieved what it set out to do quite well. Just don’t go into it comparing it to anything else and see if it alone works for you

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Joker is a fine, fine motion picture. Certainly much better than The Rise of Skywalker. It takes a character story and tells it straightforwardly and without rushing it. The Rise of Skywalker feels like its constantly in a race against itself.

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I've heard plenty like it, but it looked absolutely cringe and pretentious to me. If I ever have to opportunity to watch it for free / included in a service I already have, then I might.

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