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Star Wars Disenchantment


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6 hours ago, JTW said:

If all this were true, why didn’t Abrams or Kennedy or Johnson or Iger brag about their grand masterplan after the premiere or after the backlash to prove that this was the plan all along? Maybe because they had no clue whatsoever what they wanted and made it up as they went?
Maybe this video will shed some light on the subject: 0:23

 

The cast and crew of Star Wars (past and present) have said a great many things about Star Wars. (This includes controversial statements regarding the already-infamous sequel trilogy.) Not everything these Lucasfilm employees have said can be true since they have contradicted themselves, with George Lucas setting the example.

 

Even so, the creator has been clear that his work is parable-based and contains archetype characters... that the grander Star Wars narrative and themes was based in philosophy and mythology, among other thought-provoking areas of study and belief. Star Wars was not made primarily to be 'escapism', but as a teaching tool aimed at younger people as they transition into adulthood.

 

I suspect the film-makers haven't bragged because they have something special planned and want to keep their ignorant, assumptive audience on the far side of the galaxy until the time is right. Based on my discoveries, it will be easily proven that everything was master-planned... and that it was the fandom at large that "had no clue whatsoever"... but not because there weren't clues to be found and assembled.

 

3 hours ago, JTW said:

I have heard the rumours too that there will be another Rey Trilogy, and even a crazier one that George Lucas might be involved, but I sure hope the latter isn’t true.
As for the former, well it’s Disney, one would have to be a fool to think that they won’t keep on milking this sad old franchise ad infinitum. So imho alas there will be at least another Disney Star Wars Rey Palpatine trilogy in the foreseeable future. 

 

I will squash any rumors that there will be another  Rey Trilogy. (The Saga only needed one.)

 

When the Saga continues, George Lucas will be involved primarily in that his grand plan will be the basis for the continued narrative and consistent themes.

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21 minutes ago, Holko said:

See, this is why we don't bait him further, @JTW. Were you here when he was pulling all this shit in all SW threads telling everyone they were inferior for not "seeing" the "bigger truth"?

And why do you care? Let him say whatever he wants. Again, he has a right to his opinion. Don’t react to him if you don’t want to, it’s your choice. 

16 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Don't, @JTW, just... don't.

Relax. 

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As long as he writes whithin the allowed boundaries of the forum, yes. If he calls the people who dont think like him "inferior human beings" that would be offensive... 

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3 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

As long as he writes whithin the allowed boundaries of the forum, yes. If he calls the people who dont think like him "inferior human beings" that would be offensive... 

True, but then again who were you  referring to just minutes ago when you wrote “there are two of them”? 

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

See, this is why we don't bait him further, @JTW. Were you here when he was pulling all this shit in all SW threads telling everyone they were inferior for not "seeing" the "bigger truth"?

 

Leave it be, @Holko. just sit back and enjoy the show...

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6 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

That "rumor" came from Mike Zeroh, a well known fraud.

I have heard it from other sources as well, but yes, Zeroh's infos are as reliable as the postal service. If it did originate from him, that's a relief. 

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All this from a Screenrant article, a website that is known to use actual bots to write the majority of their articles. Most film "news" sites are exactly the same; bots that trawl through Reddit, YouTube and forums like this and then regurgitate unverified rumours that further fuel the fandom speculation machine in an endless cycle of pointlessness. Yawn.

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@Docteur Qui, do you think the content of that Screenrant article is untrue? Are you denying that John Williams intended to incorporate Dies Irae throughout the Star Wars scores?

 

I agree, coming up with theories as to why he did this would be part of "the fandom speculation machine", but these types of thinking exercises are what makes Star Wars enjoyable. These are parable-based stories. Consistently interpreting them on a relative surface level - complaining about what you didn't want or expect - is what I would call "an endless cycle of pointlessness".

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1 hour ago, Mattris said:

@Docteur Qui, do you think the content of that Screenrant article is untrue? Are you denying that John Williams intended to incorporate Dies Irae throughout the Star Wars scores?

 

I agree, coming up with theories as to why he did this would be part of "the fandom speculation machine", but these types of thinking exercises are what makes Star Wars enjoyable. These are parable-based stories. Consistently interpreting them on a relative surface level - complaining about what you didn't want or expect - is what I would call "an endless cycle of pointlessness".

 

I don't think anyone here was referring to the Main Title/Dies Irae connection (to my knowledge), just the fourth trilogy/George directing rumors. And yes, Screenrant has an atrocious track record, half the time literally reporting on Mike Zeroh bullshit directly.

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I see no evidence that the Screenrant article in question was written by a 'bot'. It said nothing about a "fourth trilogy/George directing rumors". The writer of the article merely noted that Rey's Theme - and other John Williams Star Wars cues - contain Dies Irae... and that this likely means something about Rey's story and/or fate.

 

I tagged onto the 'Dies Irae in Star Wars' list by adding the Star Wars Main Title / Main Theme. Many other quotes can be found throughout the scores. For example, the main theme to Rogue One was based on the section of Learn About The Force  that quoted Dies Irae.


Even though the article's content was accurate and intriguing, @Docteur Qui seems to have outright dismissed the article based on the content of the website's past articles. I find that strange.

 

I wonder, @Manakin Skywalker, do you classify me in the same category as Mike Zeroh? If so, why?

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25 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I see no evidence that the Screenrant article in question was written by a 'bot'. It said nothing about a "fourth trilogy/George directing rumors". The writer of the article merely noted that Rey's Theme - and other John Williams Star Wars cues - contain Dies Irae... and that this likely means something about Rey's story and/or fate.

 

I tagged onto the 'Dies Irae in Star Wars' list by adding the Star Wars Main Title. Many other  quotes can be found throughout the scores. For instance, the main theme to Rogue One was based on a section from Learn About The Force.)

 

Even though the article's content was accurate and intriguing,  @Docteur Qui seems to have outright dismissed the article based on the content of the website's past articles. I find that strange.

 

I wonder, @Manakin Skywalker, do you classify me in the same category as Mike Zeroh? If so, why?

 

I didn't read any of the articles in question, I just clarified what I assumed was being discussed, and bringing up Screenrant's past credibility (or lack thereof). I don't think we're discussing the same article though, the one I was replying to was apparently about George returning to direct another trilogy, it had nothing to do with the music.

 

Unrelated topic, but why are about 2/3 of your sentences copy/pasted?

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1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I didn't read any of the articles in question, I just clarified what I assumed was being discussed, and bringing up Screenrant's past credibility (or lack thereof). I don't think we're discussing the same article though, the one I was replying to was apparently about George returning to direct another trilogy, it had nothing to do with the music.

 

Perhaps you should read the article Jay linked on the previous page.

 

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Unrelated topic, but why are about 2/3 of your sentences copy/pasted?

 

Copy-pasting others' posts directly into my response section makes it easier for me to compose responses. The formatting on the site isn't noticeable or bothersome to me, but moving forward, I'll try to make all my sentences appear consistent.

 

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

I heard there will be space twerking in episode X.

 

Many notable things will happen in Episode X, but I don't think space twerking will be one of them.

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40 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Copy-pasting others' posts directly into my response section makes it easier for me to compose responses. The formatting on the site isn't noticeable or bothersome to me, but moving forward, I'll try to make all my sentences appear consistent.

 

No, I meant like the image below. The dark theme has an issue where it shows a noticeable white outline when text has been pasted from somewhere else. Not a big deal I suppose, just thought it was interesting.

 

Untitled-1.jpg

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That would annoy me. I think it's the result of typing within a copy-pasted member quote.

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There is no Episode X, and it's just a coincidence that Rey's and Palpatine's share some notes. 

There was no plan to make Rey and Palpatine related until Abrams couldn't write a decent story for TROS. 

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Is it "just a coincidence" that Kylo's Theme and The Emperor Theme  also "share some notes"... five in a row to start Kylo's Theme?

 

Is it also a coincidence that Rey's Theme  starts with three notes in a row from the middle of The Force Theme  and features its chordal structure? Is it a coincidence that her theme also features minor thirds and Dies Irae?

 

Does everyone here think John Williams composes coincidently? All of these Star Wars musical connections - and many others - are a happy accident that link to the events, character arcs, and overall plots? If so, how amazingly convenient!


Re: Episode X

 

It would make sense that Episode X was filmed back-to-back with trIXie...

 

... to save money with a longer shoot, rather than two separate ones.
... so the entire cast and crew could make the film without the public suspecting.
... so that it could be released as a surprise, whenever they so choose.

 

Rey and Palpatine being related was the "story". The plan for The Emperor's return can be proven from a swath of evidence within the previous films and their novelizations. (We really should have seen it coming.) On this point, Abrams said, "The clues to what we're doing in IX are hidden in plain view." Chris Terrio, his co-writer for IX, said, "JJ loves magic tricks."

 

Colin Trevorrow's script was written and 'leaked' as a distraction. It's was never meant to even been considered for production. (One of the actors even insinuated as much. More on this later.)

 

Regarding the Rey's heritage, Daisy Ridley was either lying in that interview... or she was simply recounting what she was told throughout the shooting of the films, which would  be appropriate since her character also was unaware of the truth.

 

And let's not overlook that the last acts of Episode IX and VI were written to mirror each other. Was that a coincidence, as well?

 

In a conversation between Finn and Poe (taking place after the Battle of Exegol and included in The Rise of Skywalker novelization), the two observed that 'the Emperor was thought to have been destroyed at the Battle of Endor but came back stronger than ever'... and the Saga continued with Palpatine being the main baddie of the next trilogy.

 

To those who don't see the writing on the wall - even with all of the evidence I've posted in this thread - I can only conclude that your pride has blinded you. You are in denial and can't fathom you're being tricked by a company that wanted to challenge its audience, starting with the very first Episode: curiously #4, not #1.  With a grand plan designed by George Lucas, Lucasfilm's strategy has focused on playing the audience to popularly-held assumptions, assumptions also held by the characters of the story. Such is the nature of parables containing archetype characters, each with a role to play in the overall narrative.

 

In truth, Lucasfilm has already won. You just don't know it yet.

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6 hours ago, Demodex said:

There was no plan to make Rey and Palpatine related until Abrams couldn't write a decent story for TROS. 

 

He still did not write a decent story. 

 

The crazy woman that wrote the Twilight books would've done better. 

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46 minutes ago, Positivatee said:

The crazy woman that wrote the Twilight books would've done better. 

Maybe even the crazy woman who wrote the 50 Shadeses.

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3 hours ago, Positivatee said:

He still did not write a decent story. 

 

The crazy woman that wrote the Twilight books would've done better. 

 

Honest question: What do you think was the story of Episode IX... or the sequel trilogy, in general?

 

Before answering, you might want to consider the story as it continued from the previous six Episodes.

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1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Honest question...

Questions are not honest. It's answers that are honest, to wit...

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

...consider the story as it continued from the previous six Episodes.

It doesn't. Episode VI ended, satisfactorily.

The only reason VII to IX were made was greed; pure evil avarice.

Sometimes, the words "...and they all lived happily ever after", are the best words to end a story.

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19 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Questions are not honest. It's answers that are honest, to wit...

 

It was a question asked genuinely. And you didn't answer it.

 

19 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It doesn't. Episode VI ended, satisfactorily.

The only reason VII to IX were made was greed; pure evil avarice.

Sometimes, the words "...and they all lived happily ever after", are the best words to end a story.

 

I agree that Return of the Jedi  is a 'satisfactory' ending to the Original Trilogy, in isolation.

 

Once the Prequel Trilogy was added, Saga must be re-examined. Without a reassessment of all six films in context, one would then be concluding that the prequels were devoid of substance and could be ignored. (From my point of view, this is where the Star Wars fandom, collectively, has utterly failed.)

 

 "...and they all lived happily ever after" had been done before (many times) and was expected. Can you fathom that George Lucas had something else in mind? This would explain why he made the prequels, other than the expected 'Anakin becomes Darth Vader'. Can you come up with any reasons you think Lucas made the Prequel Trilogy? Better yet, how would these intriguing inclusions re-conceptualize the OT?

 

19 hours ago, rough cut said:

Isn’t the point mute when even the head creators have confessed that there was no plan?

 

Please provide direct quotes in which JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson said 'There was no plan for the Sequel Trilogy.'

 

Daisy Ridley talking about what she was told about her character - to another professional actor, on a Disney-owned show - is weak evidence and should be taken with a grain of salt or completely dismissed.

 

In that interview, Ridley often avoided looking at the camera, indicating that she is most likely lying or recalling how she was supposed to respond to that prepared question. In her answer, she mentioned Olaf (of Frozen, voiced by Gad) being considered as part of Rey's family. The whole thing was just another Ridley/Gad skit, continuing where they left off from the comedic bits they made leading up to the release of TLJ: 'Hey Daisy. How are you? Can I get you anything? Who are Rey's parents?'

 

Trust me, guys. They're trolling.

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41 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in!

 

They have you right where they want you... because you fell for their trap.

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10 hours ago, Mattris said:

Is it "just a coincidence" that Kylo's Theme and The Emperor Theme  also "share some notes"... five in a row to start Kylo's Theme?

 

Is it also a coincidence that Rey's Theme  starts with three notes in a row from the middle of The Force Theme  and features its chordal structure? Is it a coincidence that her theme also features minor thirds and Dies Irae?

 

Does everyone here think John Williams composes coincidently? All of these Star Wars musical connections - and many others - are a happy accident that link to the events and interrelationship of the stories? If so, how amazingly convenient!


Re: Episode X

 

It would make sense that 'trIXie' was filmed back-to-back with IX...

 

... to save money with a longer shoot, rather than two separate ones.
... so the entire cast and crew could make the film without the public suspecting.
... so that it could be released as a surprise, whenever they so choose.

 

Rey and Palpatine being related was the "story". The plan for The Emperor's return can be proven from a swath of evidence within the previous films and their novelizations. (We really should have seen it coming.) On this point, Abrams said, "The clues to what we're doing in IX are hidden in plain view." Chris Terrio, his co-writer, said, "JJ loves magic tricks."

 

Colin Trevorrow's script was written and 'leaked' as a distraction. It's was never meant to even been considered to produce. (One of the actors even insinuated as much. More on this later.)

 

Regarding the Rey's heritage, Daisy Ridley was either lying in that interview... or she was simply recounting what she was told throughout the shooting of the films... which would make sense, as her character also was unaware of the truth.

 

And let's not overlook that the last acts of Episode IX and VI were written to mirror each other. Was that a coincidence, as well?

 

In a conversation between Finn and Poe (taking place after the Battle of Exegol and included in The Rise of Skywalker novelization), the two observed that 'the Emperor was thought to have been destroyed at the Battle of Endor but came back stronger than ever'... and the Saga continued with Palpatine being the main baddie of the next trilogy.

 

To those who don't see the writing on the wall - even with all of the evidence I've posted in this thread - I can only conclude that your pride has blinded you. You are in denial and can't fathom you're being tricked by a company that wanted to challenge its audience, starting with the very first Episode: curiously #4, not #1. Led by George Lucas, Lucasfilm's strategy focused on playing to popularly-held assumptions, assumptions also held by the characters of the story. Such is the nature of parables containing archetype characters, each with a role to play.

 

In truth, Lucasfilm has already won. You just don't know it yet.

You make it sound like Disney/Lucasfilm is worse than the Empire and Iger, Kennedy and co. are more sinister than the Emperor. Come on, you read things into all this that are just not there. They WISH they were so smart as you make them look. Alas they are not by a longshot. 
This is not a conspiracy like Roswell and Area 51. This is only the awful sequel trilogy that was made up by incompetent people as they went. 

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Questions are not honest. It's answers that are honest, to wit...

 

It doesn't. Episode VI ended, satisfactorily.

The only reason VII to IX were made was greed; pure evil avarice.

Sometimes, the words "...and they all lived happily ever after", are the best words to end a story.

That goes for Indiana Jones, too. Sometimes the heroes riding into the sunset is the best way to end a great franchise.

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17 hours ago, JTW said:

You make it sound like Disney/Lucasfilm is worse than the Empire and Iger, Kennedy and co. are more sinister than the Emperor. Come on, you read things into all this that are just not there. They WISH they were so smart as you make them look. Alas they are not by a longshot. 
This is not a conspiracy like Roswell and Area 51. This is only the awful sequel trilogy that was made up by incompetent people as they went.

 

Exactly what things are just not there? Do you think master composer John Williams did not intend to incorporate multiple relevant themes/motifs into Rey's Theme and other cues and character themes throughout the Saga? Regardless, these musical quotes are present. John Williams would not have done this for no reason. Keep in mind that he composes these score cues and themes for the films, not the other way around.

 

Considering John Williams' skill level, there can only be one reason these themes are so inter-related and accurate to how the story has unfolded: He was told to do so by the higher-ups at Lucasfilm. Why would he have been told to do so? There can only be one reason: There was a plan for the characters and overall story, a plan told to him.

 

Dismissing this line of logic simply because you don't think they're "so smart" makes no sense at all. This very well could be a conspiracy... secrets kept, lies told, deception furthered, but with clues hidden in plain view for the most attentive to assemble... including clues hidden within the music.

 

Wouldn't Star Wars be worthy of such a challenge for a unsuspecting audience? After all, this IP was created, first and foremost, as a teaching tool.

 

So perhaps the "incompetent people" are not those at Lucasfilm, but an audience that assumed a great many things... wrongly.

 

17 hours ago, JTW said:

That goes for Indiana Jones, too. Sometimes the heroes riding into the sunset is the best way to end a great franchise.

 

Sometimes there is a different story to tell. This is not to say that the Star Wars Saga won't also have a satisfying and happy ending. I'm sure it will, as George Lucas designed.

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8 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Sometimes there is a different story to tell. This is not to say that the Star Wars Saga won't also have a satisfying and happy ending. I'm sure it will, as George Lucas designed.

It already had a satisfying and happy ending with RETURN OF THE JEDI.

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Yes, Return of the Jedi was "a satisfying and happy ending"... but not THE END of the Saga.

 

The prequel episodes - written and directed by the creator - introduced more questions (to the narrative and overall context of the Saga) and very few definitive answers. For instance:

 

- What is the Force? (The Jedi used the supernatural powers it provided them but only knew of its mysterious ways through its "will".)

- What is 'the will of the Force'?

- How exactly does the Force work?

- What does 'bringing the Force back into balance' entail?

- How did the Jedi know the Force was out of balance?

- What was the Prophesy of the Chosen One? (What was its origin?)

- How were the Jedi deceived and beaten so easily?

- What is 'the dark side' of the Force?

- Can only those with certain states of mind 'use' the dark side powers... and get a red lightsaber?

- Can the dark side be used to keep people from dying, as Darth Sidious told Anakin?

- Could Sidious have used the dark side to keep himself from dying... at the end of Episode VI?

- Was led to the formation of the Jedi and Sith Orders?

- What were Palpatine's specific - and ultimate - goals... in the prequel era and beyond?

 

Simply put, too many history/story/lore questions remain for the narrative to have been complete with just six episodes. So the Saga (necessarily) continued... and will continue since few - if any - of these questions have yet been answered.

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44 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Yes, Return of the Jedi was "a satisfying and happy ending"... but not THE END of the Saga.

 

The prequel episodes - written and directed by the creator - introduced more questions (to the narrative and overall context of the Saga) and very few definitive answers. For instance:

 

- What is the Force? (The Jedi used the supernatural powers it provided them but only knew of its mysterious ways through its "will".)

- What is 'the will of the Force'?

- How exactly does the Force work?

- What does 'bringing the Force back into balance' entail?

- How did the Jedi know the Force was out of balance?

- What was the Prophesy of the Chosen One? (What was its origin?)

- How were the Jedi deceived and beaten so easily?

- What is 'the dark side' of the Force?

- Can only those with certain states of mind 'use' the dark side powers... and get a red lightsaber?

- Can the dark side be used to keep people from dying, as Darth Sidious told Anakin?

- Could Sidious have used the dark side to keep himself from dying... at the end of Episode VI?

- Was led to the formation of the Jedi and Sith Orders?

- What were Palpatine's specific - and ultimate - goals... in the prequel era and beyond?

 

Simply put, too many history/story/lore questions remain for the narrative to have been complete with just six episodes... or nine. The Saga (necessarily) continued... and will continue.

The saga had its perfect ending with ROTJ. The prequels were made later, and the questions they introduced are not relevant in terms of the overall story arc of the saga. Read the EU books and comics if you want to know more about all the unnecessary things.
George Lucas’ Star Wars Saga had a perfect ending with RETURN OF THE JEDI. 

 

PS.: Everything can be continued if they want, forever. But just because they can doesn't mean they SHOULD. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Star Trek, The Matrix, etc., all these franchises that are constantly being continued, become worse and worse with every new installment, incapable of making the story better, only making it worse and less meaningful. Hollywood can't stop beating a horse 'til it's dead and then keeps kicking it more. The only franchise that has (yet) been left untouched is BACK TO THE FUTURE. And we can thank that to the two Bobs. Were it for Spielberg, we'd have two sequel trilogies and three spin-off streaming series by now. But as long as Zemeckis and Gale are alive, BTTF cannot be continued. And that's why it's still regarded as one of the greatest film trilogies of all time, and its legend and legacy only grows with every passing year.

Had STAR WARS remained a trilogy, it would be on the same iconic and legendary level today as BTTF. But the prequels (not so much) and the sequels have done a lot of damage to its legendary status, and a lot of people, like yours truly, have turned away from the franchise.

To me the Original Trilogy will forever be the greatest, but I don't care about anything else Star Wars. 

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Yes, the prequels were made later, with all three episodes written and directed by George Lucas. The prequels exist in the same universe as the original three episodes, so the questions they introduced are "relevant in terms of the overall story arc of the saga." Period. There's no getting around this fact.

 

In Episode IV, we were told that 'the Jedi were all but extinct'. This means that the Jedi had all died, been killed, and/or had given up. So the obvious question we should have been asking: Why should two failed Jedi have been trusted to teach and train newbie Luke Skywalker about the Force and become a Jedi in their image? (Episode III confirmed that the Jedi utterly failed and were defeated, hence the Revenge of the Sith.)

 

Which of the loose ends I listed are "unnecessary"? Which EU books and comics answer those pertinent questions? Shouldn't the answers be presented in the films to make the Saga complete, without requiring outside material?


George Lucas’ Star Wars Saga had an end with RETURN OF THE JEDI - not THE END. (Curiously, Daisy Ridley described THE RISE OF SKYWALKER in this exact manner.)

 

It's not about 'wanting to continue' the Saga or continuing it "forever". It's about answering those questions (and more), answers that are required to define the narrative and themes of Star Wars. Further films can - and surely will - contain necessary answers and complete the narrative, including the decisive defeat of the villain(s).

 

"Worse and worse with every new installment" is your opinion, based on your assessment, based on your point of view. If your general assessment of Star Wars is incorrect - based of the true intent of its creator and subsequent writers - then your opinion is irrelevant... a harsh reality... and a probable one. (This would certainly explain why you don't care for the prequels or sequels.)

 

@JTW, we're not talking about those other franchises. We're talking about STAR WARS. And if you think its makers are "incapable of making the story better", I expect you will be pleasantly surprised. Just watch.

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1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Yes, the prequels were made later, with all three episodes written and directed by George Lucas. The prequels exist in the same universe as the original three episodes, so the questions they introduced are "relevant in terms of the overall story arc of the saga." Period. There's no getting around this fact.

 

In Episode IV, we were told that 'the Jedi were all but extinct'. This means that the Jedi had all died, been killed, and/or had given up. So the obvious question we should have been asking: Why should two failed Jedi have been trusted to teach and train newbie Luke Skywalker about the Force and become a Jedi in their image? (Episode III confirmed that the Jedi utterly failed and were defeated, hence the Revenge of the Sith.)

 

Which of the loose ends I listed are "unnecessary"? Which EU books and comics answer those pertinent questions? Shouldn't the answers be presented in the films to make the Saga complete, without requiring outside material?


George Lucas’ Star Wars Saga had an end with RETURN OF THE JEDI - not THE END. (Curiously, Daisy Ridley described THE RISE OF SKYWALKER in this exact manner.)

 

It's not about 'wanting to continue' the Saga or continuing it "forever". It's about answering those questions (and more), answers that are required to define the narrative and themes of Star Wars. Further films can - and surely will - contain necessary answers and complete the narrative with the conclusive defeat of the villain(s).

 

"Worse and worse with every new installment" is your opinion, based on your assessment, based on your point of view. If your general assessment of Star Wars is incorrect - based of the true intent of its creator and subsequent writers - then your opinion is irreverent... a harsh reality... and a probable one. (This would certainly explain why you don't care for the prequels or sequels.)

 

@JTW, we're not talking about those other franchises. We're talking about STAR WARS. And if you think its makers are "incapable of making the story better", I expect you will be pleasantly surprised. Just watch.

As I’ve said, imho the Star Wars Saga had a perfect ending with RETURN OF THE JEDI. I don’t care about anything Disney are producing. 

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6 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It doesn't. Episode VI ended, satisfactorily.

The only reason VII to IX were made was greed

 

Not least, the greed of fans who simply wanted "more" without realizing what that entails.

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44 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Not least, the greed of fans who simply wanted "more" without realizing what that entails.

 

This is utter rubbish. Going to watch a movie and wanting it not to suck is “greed” now?

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Not least, the greed of fans who simply wanted "more" without realizing what that entails.

Not even Lucas realized what he had done when he sold Star Wars to Disney and made Kathleen Kennedy President of Lucasfilm. Then how could we have known that instead of Luke, Han, Leia, C-3PO, R2-D2, Chewbacca we were going to get Ray Palpatine, granddaddy Palpatine, Jake Skywalker, loser dad (dead) Han, Leia Poppins, Beach Ball, "RAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!"-Finn, Smoke, Benjamin Vader and purple haired weirdo lady?

I mean they could have made three good Star Wars films... They literally had infinite resources and infinite possibilities at their disposal. 

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38 minutes ago, JTW said:

I mean they could have made three good Star Wars films.

 

They could, but as a sequel trilogy it was inevitable that it should have the same effect it ended up having: taking the events of the previous films and turning them into a footnote.

 

And don't feel too sorry for Lucas: he decided to sell the company, he decided to put an Episode VII into development and even laid a lot of the groundwork for The Force Awakens, and he's still getting money off it via Disney stock.

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