Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 40 minutes ago, Mattris said: With Kathleen Kennedy still in charge, Ep. 9 will make roughly $1 billion less than it could have without her. You're joking, right? Me and my "friends" are being missed as we speak. 1. With Han, yes. But Luke Skywalker's story is different. The fact is, a disenchanted Luke (who was portrayed as to be a shadow of his former self) had to 'arrive' at the battle because Rose didn't allow Finn to decide his own destiny and destroy the big door laser weapon. And even then, Luke wasn't actually present. Force projection causes death. These events were convoluted and unworthy of such a cherished character... certainly not continuing "to live in the way that [George] created them". 2. Then why did she hire them... and let them shoot basically the entire film before firing them? This issue of 'firing and hiring' has become a habit with her. It reeks havoc on a film production and ultimately the finished product. 3. Concerning all things coming out of Lucasfilm, the buck stops with the president. While Kathleen Kennedy has decades of experience in the film industry, she did not make films. And I firmly believe she wasn't a fan of Star Wars when she was handed the job. Regardless, she obviously doesn't care what the majority of fans want: adventure stories filled with unique, intriguing characters that have a compelling arcs, bonding, teamwork, family, love, and good vs. evil. The KK films fail at this. That's why fans are outraged. 4. She picked the wrong directors and paid for it. It wasn't the first time... more like the fourth time. Any Star Wars movie should be making back 2-5 times its production/marketing expenses. Solo is on track to be in the red until it's released on home video. This should be unacceptable for any film, much less a Disney-marketed Star Wars film. The Force Awakens was a lazy, safe copy of A New Hope, Rogue One was... ok - but featured yet another British, white, female lead (and an obviously multi-racial cast - so progressive!), The Last Jedi was shockingly divisive, and Solo is mostly unfaithful to the character of Han Solo. Her tack record is awful. Cute? Give me a break. She had those shirts made and gave a speech to pander to sexist/ignorant women (and men). She knows events like that do exist in a vacuum and is using her power to (attempt to) shape society and to get a pat on the back from feminists. Hollywood is a cesspool. They treat most people like garbage. Hopefully, the situation is improving for everyone - but not at the expense of (hard-working, honorable) men. Why do you think it’s "fantastic" that Kennedy is in charge of Lucasfilm? She is unsuccessfully running a movie-making business. "Her reward... for breaking through so many glass ceilings over a legendary career"? Don't kid yourself. KK wasn't promoted by a board of directors. George Lucas handed her the keys to the castle, and she is trashing it. She failed at the "challenge" she was given. Star Wars is important to millions of fans worldwide. For two hours at a time, people can escape "the real world" to go on an adventure "A long time ago...". And these movies just aren't doing it for them. Then she's a hypocrite, as well. "She’s doing things the way she wants to and" will be fired or will step down soon. Mark my words. Those t-shirts were not meant to be "funny". They were made to further her feminist agenda. Imagine if a male Lucasfilm president made "The Force Is Male" t-shirts made? The outrage! Yawn The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mattris said: No. Unimaginative, convoluted writing produces thin characters. Most other characters in TFA and TLJ are poorly written and developed, as well. If accusing me of being sexist is all you have, we aren't going to get anywhere. Try addressing the points and facts I've bought up. What facts? Those are just your opinions, Harvey. You seem threatened by a feminist agenda. I just don't understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Indianagirl said: I don't for one second think that Lucasfilm is just winging this from one director to the next with out an overall storyline. That storyline may of seen some adjustments as time went by but I don't buy into the whole bit that Rian Johnson came in and completely undid JJ's story. I've followed not just the films but also the books and I can tell you that this is going somewhere. Its not “winging it” - that’s just the reality of making serialized films. Maybe outside of Marvel, the only way to truly plan out a film series from the outset is to write and shoot all of them simultaneously. There is no master-plan behind this trilogy, and even if there were - it’s the execution that counts. Two different screenwriters can take the same story outline and each make something radically different out of it, and when you add a director to the mix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 A woman's heart is a deep ocean of secrets. But now you know there was a man named Flynn. And that I saved him. In every way that a person can be saved. - Rose John, Bilbo, Unlucky Bastard and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 My SWD story: I went to see Darth Vader one time. There was a big crowd, and my dad lifted me up onto his shoulders. Darth Vader saw me and gave me a thumbs up! That was a few years ago. Since then, I've become increasingly suspicious that it wasn't really David Prowse under that helmet, and that James Earl Jones may not even have been in the country at the time. Demodex, ins, Holko and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On 01/06/2018 at 6:07 PM, Indianagirl said: The world in general has a history of treating women like garbage in some ways. However, in some ways women have always had special privileges and treatment. The world has always been a very hypocritical place in every direction. That's a great point about her taking heat from leftists for not having hired a woman director yet. She has, in many ways, a thankless job. George took heat for years. The people whining that she isn't listening to the "fans" need to recall that George never catered to them. Or anyone. George single mindedly did exactly what he wanted to do and if anyone didn't like it he didn't care. Personally, I admire that. I don't consider myself on the leftwing at all and even I can see that the fanboys who are screaming that she is turning Star Wars into an SJW movement is absurd. She has been trying to attract a larger female audience but not at the expense of the already established male audience. And certainly not at the expense of the integrity of the Star Wars canon. Most people are reacting the way they are becuase they can't envision in their minds where TLJ is going. It is probably the most dense Star Wars film ever made and they simply don't know what to make of it or the future and they are responding in the only way they know how. ANGRILY. The difference is, Star Wars is George's creation. Fangirls are also "screaming that she is turning Star Wars into an SJW movement". "She has been trying to attract a larger female audience but not at the expense of the already established male audience." She failed. "And certainly not at the expense of the integrity of the Star Wars canon." They WIPED the former canon. "Most people are reacting the way they are because they can't envision in their minds where TLJ is going." TLJ was its own film... and a failure in almost every way. "It is probably the most dense Star Wars film ever made and they simply don't know what to make of it or the future and they are responding in the only way they know how. ANGRILY." We own our justified response, and it will lead to change until Disney is satisfied with the profits. On 01/06/2018 at 6:23 PM, Indianagirl said: I don't for one second think that Lucasfilm is just winging this from one director to the next with out an overall storyline. That storyline may of seen some adjustments as time went by but I don't buy into the whole bit that Rian Johnson came in and completely undid JJ's story. I've followed not just the films but also the books and I can tell you that this is going somewhere. Believe it or not, they are winging it. Rian Johnson "completely undid JJ's story" and JJ was brought back in to right the sinking ship. On 01/06/2018 at 8:09 PM, Indianagirl said: Yawn You said you were "done" and then made the decision to join this discussion. You're not still mad a me for being a "forced child labor" sympathizer, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 You know what? In ROTJ the rebels were led by Mon Mothma, a woman! Feminist agenda! crumbs, Indianagirl, Bilbo and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 No, there were lead by a six foot salmon. Bofur01 and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mattris said: Rian Johnson "completely undid JJ's story" Huh? No, he didn't. He just didn't deliver what YOU expected. 1 minute ago, Batman's Diet Coke said: No, there were lead by a six foot salmon. She outranked him. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Demodex said: Huh? No, he didn't. Mostly undid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, Mattris said: Mostly undid? No. He didn't undo anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 You can see here the death star orbiting that farrest moon of Endor. Although the weapons systems of this death star are not yet operational, the death star does have a strong. Defense. Mechanism. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, Chen G. said: There is no master-plan behind this trilogy, and even if there were - it’s the execution that counts. Two different screenwriters can take the same story outline and each make something radically different out of it, and when you add a director to the mix... So you acknowledge there could be a master plan. 2 hours ago, Indianagirl said: Most people are reacting the way they are becuase they can't envision in their minds where TLJ is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Demodex said: Huh? No, he didn't. He just didn't deliver what YOU expected. He didn't deliver anything, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 He delivered a petty good film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, Mattris said: "And certainly not at the expense of the integrity of the Star Wars canon." They WIPED the former canon. “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.” – George Lucas, from an interview in Starlog #337 Kitten the EU was never canon. 56 minutes ago, Mattris said: You're not still mad a me for being a "forced child labor" sympathizer, are you? It's more that I just don't respect you. The Illustrious Jerry and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 They dig for the chance to support our cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, Indianagirl said: It's more that I just don't respect you. I see. You're dismissive and accusatory - just like Kathleen Kennedy and Co. to the Star Wars fans. 17 minutes ago, Indianagirl said: “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.” – George Lucas, from an interview in Starlog #337 Kitten the EU was never canon. Similarly, George didn't approve of this Disney material, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 AOTC is the best SW movie because it's about the love between a man and a woman, not a man and his pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 It's pretty good. Not on the level of Sith. But then again, what is? Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 ROTS is... so beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 And so it is. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Twisted by the dark side Lucasfilm has become. The company you admired, gone it is. Consumed by the Democratic Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I do not know where Kennedy has sent it. I don't know where to Luke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 If into Kathleen Kennedy's Twitter feed you look, only pain you will find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, Mattris said: Similarly, George didn't approve of this Disney material, either. Kitten, This is why I don't respect you. You make a false statement and someone comes along who unequivocally demonstrates it to be so and you respond as if it had never happened. You will literally say anything to keep your false narrative alive. Including when you attempted to suggest that passing judgement on child slavery was a kind of social justice moment that something like Star Wars shouldn't pass judgement on because it might be too preachy and make certain people uncomftorable. That was the moment I lost all respect for you. As for George not approving of Disney's material. First of all it's no longer his to approve or disprove of. He willingly sold the franchise with the intention they continue to build off of his canon. Secondly there is little evidence he doesn't largely approve of what Disney is doing. George did have an issue with the sequel trilogy not being about the twins but it remains to be seen if they will end up brother and sister. I personally think they will but who outside of Lucasfilm knows? He would have asthetically made Force Awakens look differently than it does but then again it's no longer his to make. We know that he liked Rogue One and Solo a lot. Solo was the one stand alone film that we know he wanted them to do. He was complimentary toward TLJ and I know of no actual quote to dispute that. So when you say George didn't approve of this Disney material not only is that not entirely accurate it also misses the point. You continually grasp at straws to keep your hateful agenda alive. That's not going to bring me to your side. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 In a New York Times in an interview, Kathleen Kennedy said: “I have a responsibility to the company that I work with,” she said. “I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way.” She added, “I would never just seize on saying, ‘Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something.’” She admits that she doesn't "cater" to anyone: the fans, most of whom she assumes are/were male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, Mattris said: In a New York Times in an interview, Kathleen Kennedy said: “I have a responsibility to the company that I work with,” she said. “I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way.” She added, “I would never just seize on saying, ‘Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something.’” She admits that she doesn't "cater" to anyone: the fans, most of whom she assumes are/were male. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 She admitted that she doesn't care about what the fans want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mattris said: She admitted that she doesn't care about what the fans want. I don't care about what the "fans" want!!! George didn't care about what the fans want!!! Many of the fans are idiots. The last thing on earth we need is Lucasfilm pandering to what they think the fans might want. If you're so self-entitled that you need to be pandered to then go join the Marvel Universe. Leave Lucasfilm alone. No time to discuss this to a committee!!! Holko, Demodex and John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 But if they don't pander to the fans then how will they make money? 😄 I'm still waiting for an answer about why it bothers him so much that there are female lead characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, Margo Channing said: If into Kathleen Kennedy's Twitter feed you look, only pain you will find. Welcome, foolish mortals, to The Haunted Mansion. We've been expecting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Mattris and Indianagirl need to get a room and sort out this romantic tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Mattris said: Under her reign, Kathleen Kennedy has approved killing off Han and Luke Harrison Ford was the one who wanted Han killed. He had no interest in continuing the role. Sacrificing Luke was necessary to the story, it didn't contradict anything Lucas had created. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Indianagirl said: I don't care about what the "fans" want!!! George didn't care about what the fans want!!! Many of the fans are idiots. The last thing on earth we need is Lucasfilm pandering to what they think the fans might want. If you're so self-entitled that you need to be pandered to go join the Marvel Universe. Leave Lucasfilm alone. No time to discuss this to a committee!!! Many of the "idiot" fans voiced their complaints and were dismissed and accused of being ignorant, racist, and sexist by Lucasfilm employees. (FYI, I'm putting together a compilation of evidence.) If Lucasfilm continues to ignore the fans, their business will continue to drop. This has been happening since TLJ... and will continue to happen until changes are made. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 20 minutes ago, Mattris said: She admitted that she doesn't care about what the fans want. Every fan is different. It's stupid to group all of us into one bunch. What you want/don't want isn't necessarily what others want/don't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 LOL. You and some other fans do sound rather sexist. Just saying. You still haven't answered my question. Why are you so threatened by feminism? Like I said, I don't think Kennedy is going anywhere. Episode 9 will be hugely successful. The Illustrious Jerry, Holko and Manakin Skywalker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 If you don't think that a lot of these so called "fans" are sexist and/or racist, go to the Rotten Tomatoes ratings page. Demodex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mattris said: Many of the "idiot" fans voiced their complaints and were dismissed and accused of being ignorant, racist, and sexist by Lucasfilm employees. (FYI, I'm putting together a compilation of evidence.) There has been some of that and I think it's unfortunate and just has added fuel to the fire. However, in their defense the "complaint's" lodged were often so ridiculous in nature that many of these employees were dumbfounded. I seem to remember that being the case on more than one occasion with Pablo Hidalgo. I'm not convinced the boycott has anything to do with Solo under performing. I'm willing to be wrong on this but I really don't think the boycott has made even a small dent in the numbers. 4 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: If you don't think that a lot of these so called "fans" are sexist and/or racist, go to the Rotten Tomatoes ratings page. Really? I haven't read anything there. I just know that the polls they do are far from scientific and can't be taken seriously. Demodex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Harrison Ford was the one who wanted Han killed. He had no interest in continuing the role. Sacrificing Luke was necessary to the story, it didn't contradict anything Lucas had created. Self-sacrifice would have been a fine way for Luke to die. The problem some fans have is the way Luke's character changed so dramatically since we last saw him in ROTJ, in which he risked his life to save his father, willing to be killed instead of joining the Dark Side. In TLJ, Luke considered killing his nephew, was defeated by his nephew, admitted defeat, secluded himself, and refused to help his friends and family when they needed him most. When he finally does come through (but only as a Force projection), it's because Rose stopped Finn from (choosing his own destiny) destroying the big weapon. This was convoluted nonsense - not a worthy end to Luke Skywalker's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Memorial Day weekend is notorious for making moves flop. That mixed with the fact that not too many people were enthusiastic about a Solo film due to the media constantly reporting productions troubles I'm willing to be is why it under performed. I doubt the TLJ haters and boycotters even made a dent in ticket sales either. It's just a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said: Welcome, foolish mortals, to The Haunted Mansion. We've been expecting you. Our tour begins here, in this dumb thread... Indianagirl, mstrox and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I thought the self-sacrifice was pretty heroic. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mattris said: Self-sacrifice would have been a fine way for Luke to die. The problem some fans have is the way Luke's character changed so dramatically since we last saw him in ROTJ, in which he risked his life to save his father, willing to be killed instead of joining the Dark Side. In TLJ, Luke considered killing his nephew, was defeated by his nephew, admitted defeat, and secluded himself not wanting contacting - even from his friends and family when they needed him most. When he finally does come through (only as a Force projection), it's only because Rose stopped Finn from choosing his own destiny. Convoluted nonsense - not a worthy end to Luke Skywalker life. I can kind of agree to that. I'm not upset about Luke's character really, but I'll admit I was hoping for something a little more heroic. That's probably the one thing I have split feelings about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So much suicide in Disney Star Wars. Of course, there's always my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mattris said: Self-sacrifice would have been a fine way for Luke to die. The problem some fans have is the way Luke's character changed so dramatically since we last saw him in ROTJ, in which he risked his life to save his father, willing to be killed instead of joining the Dark Side. In TLJ, Luke considered killing his nephew, was defeated by his nephew, admitted defeat, and secluded himself not wanting contacting - even from his friends and family when they needed him most. When he finally does come through (only as a Force projection), it's only because Rose stopped Finn from choosing his own destiny. Convoluted nonsense - not a worthy end to Luke Skywalker life. Luke did die by self sacrafice. He sent the Legend that was Luke Skywalker to do it. There's a lot I could say here but I have a few things around my house that need doing. I may come back and address this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Edit: Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 This magical ability to transport yourself with a bad haircut across the galaxy kills you. Are we sure Drax didn't write this crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Guilty as charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So you're Drax? Damn, everyone keeps changing their names! I don't like change!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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