Jerry Goldsmith THE MUMMY Intrada 2CD set!!!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

The debate isn't about if end credits should be included or not.

The debate is about when a composer writes the end credits one way, but then in the final film the music editors change stuff around from how he intended it... and then a specialty label CD replicates the music editor's hackjob instead of the composer's intentions.

 

Since the original album version is here I don't mind it much.  I might prefer the film version credits anyway.  But I'm also someone who pretty much never plays the CDs once they're ripped.  So having my preferred assembly order on the CDs isn't a huge deal to me.

 

Also, is there some Giacchino intended end credit that was replaced on the deluxe edition of Into Darkness?  I thought he recorded through the TOS arrangement and then it was always an edited assembly from there.  I see no issue.

[Jay 37,287]

17 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Also, is there some Giacchino intended end credit that was replaced on the deluxe edition of Into Darkness? 

 

Yes.  He wrote a proper end credit suite, which was recorded in 3 parts.  However, in the final film, the music editors replaced one entire part and a portion of another with material tracked in from London Calling and Ode To Harrison.

 

The Varese DE for whatever reason dropped all 3 end credits pieces (and the cue "Spock To Spock") and instead included the end credits straight from the film's music stem, so it has different sound quality than the rest of the CD on top of including tracked music instead of what Giacchino intended.

[publicist 4,643]

It's not even 'the original version', it's just that one long arrangement of the love theme Goldsmith wrote that he - rather brilliantly - rearranged for 'Sand Volcano', one of his best summation cues (the short insert of the bumbling hero theme follows the tutti of the movie's end instead of the love theme, which is how it plays in the movie). The remaining 5 minutes were always intended as a 'hack job'. Which wasn't much good so that it best should be placed in the bonus bonus section.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

17 hours ago, Jay said:

Yes.  He wrote a proper end credit suite, which was recorded in 3 parts.  However, in the final film, the music editors replaced one entire part and a portion of another with material tracked in from London Calling and Ode To Harrison.

 

The Varese DE for whatever reason dropped all 3 end credits pieces (and the cue "Spock To Spock") and instead included the end credits straight from the film's music stem, so it has different sound quality than the rest of the CD on top of including tracked music instead of what Giacchino intended.

 

 

 

The things I was blissfully unaware of when I was buying soundtracks and not reading score forums.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The ominous brass when that guy's glasses get stepped on got a huge laugh in the cinema.

[Incanus 5,713]

11 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Since the original album version is here I don't mind it much.  I might prefer the film version credits anyway.  But I'm also someone who pretty much never plays the CDs once they're ripped.  So having my preferred assembly order on the CDs isn't a huge deal to me.

Ditto, you can always create your own preferred playlist, especially since both the film version of the end credits and the original Sand Volcano are on this set.

 

Plus I am sure there would have been people who would have clamored for the film version if it hadn't been presented in the set.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Do I get this right?

"The Sand Volcano" from the OST consists of the sand volcano cue, the hero's theme and the love theme.

The complete score seperates the sand volcano cue from the rest. So, "End Credits" from the C&C consists of the love theme, the hero's theme and 5 mysterious unreleased minutes?

[publicist 4,643]

which are just copied/pasted from assorted moments of the score in a haphazard manner.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe the OST is enough...

[Brundlefly 2,385]

3 minutes ago, publicist said:

which are just copied/pasted from assorted moments of the score in a haphazard manner.

I just listened to the samples. The transition sounds ugly. So it makes more sense to replace the last two tracks of the main program with the OST Sand Volcano. But why is it marked with two stars as partly unreleased?

[Holko 9,499]

Maybe because it's thrown together from both released and unreleased material?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I still don’t see what the controversy is here, really.  I understand what they did with the assembly but I see no reason to get upset about it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Sigh you just don't get it then.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I still don’t see what the controversy is here, really.  I understand what they did with the assembly but I see no reason to get upset about it.

It's simply superfluous to break the 79-minutes-rule, just to recreate a 'haphazard' editing job, because it was in the movie. Intrada didn't include the Deep Rising end credits edit, did they? It's one of these moments when a C&C release departs too much from the notion of keeping the complete presentation a good listening experience, rather than do it all painstakingly meticulously as it appeared in the movie. The last couple of JW releases by LLL are great examples of paying as much attention to the listening experience as to completeness. In that regard, Varese is doing a good job as well. Only Intrada could sometimes pay more attention to that aspect.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

At least we get a clean ending to The Sand Volcano and opening the love theme.

 

I wouldn't call the overall edit 'haphazard', although the edit before the final cue (heard in the sample) hasn't quite been done right. I'm probably going to extract the love theme piece as a standalone ending track.

 

Also noticed it's marked as containing unreleased music... how? Is there something not tracked in there? Talking of which, there are several 'alternate' cues in the main program so it looks like the main program contains the film versions.As we debated in the Titanic thread, I prefer that presentation.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

It's simply superfluous to break the 79-minutes-rule, just to recreate a 'hapharzard' editing job, because it was in the movie. Intrada didn't include the Deep Rising end credits edit, did they? It's one of these moments when a C&C release departs too much from the notion of keeping the complete presentation a good listening experience, rather than do it all painstakingly meticulously as it appeared in the movie. The last couple of JW releases by LLL are great examples of paying as much attention to the listening experience as to completeness. In that regard, Varese is doing a good job as well. Only Intrada could sometimes pay more attention to that aspect.

 

Reminds me of Intrada's anal commitment to C&C in its Back to the Future release by placing source cues within the main program. I mean... why? I think they did the same with Cocoon.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I guess it's just a case of people having very strong opinions about something I don't really care about either way.  I'm fine with this presentation, I'd have been fine if they'd just put the credits section of the original "Sand Volcano" there.  Shrug.

 

I had my first coffee of the day so I've regained my equanimity.  That trademark Disco Stu sangfroid  

[Holko 9,499]

Now you're just making up words!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Holko said:

Now you're just making up words!

 

Found my inner McConnaughey my friend.  Alright alright alright.  A Time to Chill.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Also noticed it's marked as containing unreleased music... how? Is there something not tracked in there? Talking of which, there are several 'alternate' cues in the main program so it looks like the main program contains the film versions.As we debated in the Titanic thread, I prefer that presentation.

It's easy to explain. Some of the tracked cues are unreleased.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

The credits heard in the film are the love theme -> Rick's theme -> section of Imhotep -> The Sarcophagus -> The Caravan -> end of Sand Volcano again.

 

I think all that is on the OST.

 

This isn't something to make a big deal out of - just a curiosity really.

[Holko 9,499]

Maybe the clean opening warranted the tag?

 

Edit: no, then Sand Volcano would've probably gotten one, too, for the clean ending.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I'm really looking forward to The Locusts. The only cue that was missing from the OST program, in my opinion. It's even better to get 2 versions of this cool cue.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

The credits heard in the film are the love theme -> Rick's theme -> section of Imhotep -> The Sarcophagus -> The Caravan -> end of Sand Volcano again.

 

I think all that is on the OST.

 

This isn't something to make a big deal out of - just a curiosity really.

Maybe they recorded a few transitions like they did for Total Recall. This would also explain why Intrada did this edit recreation in the first place.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

9 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Maybe the OST is enough...

Hence why it's included on disc 2, you silly goose! 

When I do get this one, I pretty much intend to keep the OST track listing but add some extras (like the locust cue). 

[Richard Penna 3,670]

On 7/17/2018 at 2:53 PM, Holko said:

If it's true, it could have been an interesting experiment to try and place Goldsmith's original intended 70 minutes on Disc 1, and the rest of the cues he was "forced" to write on Disc 2 - a bit similarly to Close Encounters, except indicating the complete order in the booklet.. Also, source cues seem to be missing.

 

Did a tiny bit of Shazaming and some YouTube tagging, and none of the source cues are Goldsmith. Not surprising - if he couldn't do the entire score, he was hardly going to waste time writing source material.

 

I get a real kick out of looking for music (potentially those that are library cues), so here they are

 

The two piano cues on the boat are tracks 53 and 54 from KPM music, streamed here: https://www.emipm.com/en/browse/labels/KPM/106

 

The other three are commercial cues:

 

Buying camels:

 

 

Walking into the hall to find Winston:

 

 

Finding Winston in the desert:

 

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,589]

Cool -- great work sleuthing those out!

 

Yavar

[Brundlefly 2,385]

It's interesting that they took different sources for the complete score and for the Decca album. Did they want to keep the old mix for the album or was it just a way to save time, since the album tracks were already mixed?

[Incanus 5,713]

1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

It's interesting that they took different sources for the complete score and for the Decca album. Did they want to keep the old mix for the album or was it just a way to save time, since the album tracks were already mixed?

I guess Botnick didn't see any reason to remix the OST which he had done with Goldsmith in 1999 and contained the composer's preferred mix and presentation for a listening experience.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah what's the point in remixing and remastering something when it sounded great already?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

So, can it be assumed that both mixes are basically the same?

[OneBuckFilms 319]

I'd say no, but they might be close.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Hopefully they sound alike, cause I'm definitely not gonna let these edited end credits finish the score. Poor decision, Intrada.

[crocodile 7,984]

There was no point of having the same track appear twice as it is already present in the OST segment. It really makes sense, the way they handled this.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,287]

The Main Presentation could have simply ended with the ORIGINAL portion of the end credits, IE the Love Theme -> Rick's Theme part, and not included the music editor complication of cues that the film tracked in after that ended.

[crocodile 7,984]

Sure. But then you'd have dozens of people moan there is no film end credits on the album, like they did when the original album came out.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,287]

People moaned that a music editor's crossfading of portions of cues that were already on the album wasn't also on the album?

Are you sure?

[crocodile 7,984]

Yeah, pretty sure. I don't think they necessarily knew it was assembled that way though. To me, it's a non-issue as many suites are created editorially anyway, and then replicated for these expanded albums from boutique labels. Why should this one be treated any different?

 

Karol

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I say the album should have ended with this!

 

[Jay 37,287]

2 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Yeah, pretty sure. I don't think they necessarily knew it was assembled that way though. To me, it's a non-issue as many suites are created editorially anyway, and then replicated for these expanded albums from boutique labels. Why should this one be treated any different?

 

Karol

 

Because the crossfades don't sound good?

[crocodile 7,984]

Just now, Jay said:

 

Because the crossfades don't sound good?

I've never heard it and also haven't seen the film since 2000. Have you heard the album yet? Do we know it is exactly the same edit?

 

Karol

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

We've grown accustomed to the mindset behind the FSM Superman release, which meticulously recreated the score program as Williams recorded it, without film edits, particularly for the main and end titles. Then Intrada does this.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

WHY THEY CHANGED IT I CAN'T SAY

 

PEOPLE JUST LIKED IT BETTER THAT WAY

[Jay 37,287]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

I've never heard it and also haven't seen the film since 2000. Have you heard the album yet? Do we know it is exactly the same edit?

 

Karol

 

One of the sample tracks on Intrada's website showcases that track

 

 

http://www.intrada.com/sound/jg-MUMMy_2_03.mp3

[Trent B 337]

On 7/18/2018 at 3:38 PM, Richard Penna said:

 

Did a tiny bit of Shazaming and some YouTube tagging, and none of the source cues are Goldsmith. Not surprising - if he couldn't do the entire score, he was hardly going to waste time writing source material.

 

I get a real kick out of looking for music (potentially those that are library cues), so here they are

 

 

Good to know those are pieces that were all ready available from other recordings. 

 

In order to separate 9m4 Finish The Job and 9m6 He's Here from the source music you'll need rear channel rips of the isolated score.

[crocodile 7,984]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

One of the sample tracks on Intrada's website showcases that track

 

 

http://www.intrada.com/sound/jg-MUMMy_2_03.mp3

 

http://www.intrada.com/sound/jg-MUMMy_2_03.mp3

Well... I survived TLJ album end credits so this cannot be any worse.

 

Karol

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Who cares about the end credits, the audience has already left the theatre by then!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else sit until the end of the credits before Marvel made it cool?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I do, for the music! End credits suites, baby!

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Because the crossfades don't sound good?

May I correct you: They sound terrible.

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Yeah, pretty sure. I don't think they necessarily knew it was assembled that way though. To me, it's a non-issue as many suites are created editorially anyway, and then replicated for these expanded albums from boutique labels. Why should this one be treated any different?

These people seemed to be a bunch of completist fanatics that didn't know anything about music. It's a fact that Goldsmith would have hated what Intrada did.

 

BTW, one of the worst edits is included in the sample that Intrada provided.