New Williams Concert Arrangement: "Adagio from The Force Awakens" premiering August 7th 2018 at Tanglewood [UPDATE: World premiere was March 2018 in Mexico City - video on page 1]

[Lewya 360]

Any idea what Dudamel says in his remarks, any Spanish speaker here who can translate?

[Will 2,215]

This sounds pretty good. Still, Highwood's Ghost is what I'm looking forward to from Tanglewood this year. Someone better record it!!

[Jay 37,287]

There really should be new CDs full of Williams' concert writings released every few years

[Holko 9,499]

The Pops should take him back!

[Bespin 8,480]

54 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

FYI, Williams finished writing Highwood’s Ghost last June.

 

Just stop being an ass as usual.

 

What is your source for that?

 

An ass as usual? Thanks...

 

I've putted 2018. I don't care. If the sect is saying 2018, then I'll go with the family.

 

CHECK.

[aescalle 122]

WAOUUH! Love it

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

There really should be new CDs full of Williams' concert writings released every few years

 

The guy could singlehandedly finance his own albums if he wasn't so modest.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

3 hours ago, Lewya said:

Any idea what Dudamel says in his remarks, any Spanish speaker here who can translate?

 

(from 6:52 onwards)

 

Quote

He invited me to conduct the recording of the last installment of Star Wars. I finished, sat down, and he continued conducting the recording session and started playing an Adagio. And I said "John, this is beautiful. What is this?" "Oh, this is something I wrote last night because we need a little more music for a scene" that the director had asked for. These amazing kind of things that one manages to see. "I love this piece!" and so he adapted it and made it for this orchestra. So, it was also a historic moment because you'll see the premiere of this Adagio from Star Wars for this wonderful orchestra.

 

[Will 2,215]

I assume the passage that Williams "wrote last night because we needed a little more music" is the Han falling bit (an insert?) in "Torn Apart," right?

 

Because it would be quite astonishing if "The Starkiller" were written in one night!

[JohnnyD 1,220]

Wow... A hauntingly beautiful piece, "Adagio from The Force Awakens" brought a few tears to my eyes.

[artguy360 1,843]

JW could be referring to The Starkiller adagio when he talks about "needing a little more music" as we know there is some unused, much more brass heavy music that seemed to be originally intended for Hux's speech and the firing of the big laser. 

[crumbs 14,301]

12 minutes ago, Will said:

I assume the passage that Williams "wrote last night because we needed a little more music" is the Han falling bit (an insert?) in "Torn Apart," right?

 

Because it would be quite astonishing if "The Starkiller" were written in one night! 

 

That quote astonished me as well! And how casual Williams is about the whole thing, as if he just threw together such an incredible cue overnight. The writing is only for strings though, so it wouldn't surprise me (especially if he'd already written this musical idea for death in other cues).

 

Also makes me wonder if there was an alternate Starkiller cue which was more militaristic/action oriented, but JJ asked for something more subdued (possibly after deciding to drop the immediately preceding cue, Hux's Speech?). Without knowing the cue number for Sunbeam Strings (if it says REV) it's hard to say.

 

As you also point out, the same motif was used in the revised Torn Apart, but I think we're missing the fragment of the original version that pertains to the shot of Han falling (which is where the reprise of the death motif in Starkiller comes in most prominently), so it's hard to know where Williams first used the idea.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

The build-up to the chord at 11:19 is jaw-dropping

[karelm 2,903]

7 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

Hmm…

 

 

My gosh it is so beautiful.  Definitely deserves to be a stand alone piece.  It can easily be a 10-15 minute stand alone piece.  This is easily the equal of other classic string adagios such as this gem:

 

Absolutely gorgeous! 

[Pellaeon 593]

I daresay TFA deserves a 3-CD release.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Easily, especially if one were to incorporate all the unused or alternate material. 

[crumbs 14,301]

2 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

I daresay TFA deserves a 3-CD release.

 

It would certainly need 3 CDs to accommodate all the music recorded. 

[TownerFan 4,983]

9 hours ago, Muad'Dib said:

He invited me to conduct the recording of the last installment of Star Wars. I finished, sat down, and he continued conducting the recording session and started playing an Adagio. And I said "John, this is beautiful. What is this?" "Oh, this is something I wrote last night because we need a little more music for a scene" that the director had asked for. These amazing kind of things that one manages to see. "I love this piece!" and so he adapted it and made it for this orchestra. So, it was also a historic moment because you'll see the premiere of this Adagio from Star Wars for this wonderful orchestra.

 

BTW, the "Starkiller" cue is credited to Dudamel as conductor on the TFA soundtrack album.

 

11 hours ago, Bespin said:

What is your source for that?

 

A reliable source who spoke with JW himself a few weeks ago.

 

It's just a matter of having real information and then using it properly, Bespin. You should just quit that silly attitude of scorning people who comes with arguments contradicting your own speculations.

[Bespin 8,480]

@TownerFan My argument of not always take the "Premiere Date" as the "Composition Date" is also valid. 

 

It depends. A work can be published meanwhile and it's also valid, or it could stay unpublished and unplayed few years (like the Concerto for Flute). It doesn't prevent the work from being revised later (I usually put the revision dates on my website when I know them).

 

Jason is so arrogant, that no, I don't take his arguments as 100 % valid just because he say something.

 

When someone is arrogant with me, I can be much more arrogant than him. That's it.

 

Now bring me facts, show me there is a consensus and we'll speak.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Don't get me wrong, the subject is open to discuss of course. It doesn't seem to me that Jay treated you with arrogance, he just questioned what looked like an arbitrary decision on your part and your reaction came out as petty and childish. It seems to me people here have become much more touchy whenever somebody dares to question an opinion...

[Bespin 8,480]

@Miguel Andrade For you, what you consider to be the "composition year" for Highwood's Ghost?

 

Clearly the composition began in 2017 (or prior) and according to "an unidentified source" was finished in 2018 (but it make sense that a work is reworked till it was not yet premiered).

 

I can write "(2017-18)" on my website, it would cut the pear in half, as it's probably what comes closer to the truth.

[crumbs 14,301]

4 hours ago, TownerFan said:

BTW, the "Starkiller" cue is credited to Dudamel as conductor on the TFA soundtrack album.

 

I thought he conducted that cue! Just thought I was mixing it up with MOTR. Turns out it must have been both! Plus the Main Title and End Credits fanfare.

[Jay 37,287]

The simple fact is, every score piece Williams ever conducted started being written some weeks, months, years... etc before the premiere.  The actual date is the first time the pencil hit paper for any given composition is always a nebulous mystery that we'll never know with any certainly.  What we CAN know with absolute authority is when any given piece premiered for an audience for the first time.  Since we know that information 100% of the time, and start date of composition 0% of the time, it makes sense to me that any sort of organized list of compositions would sort them by premiere date, not composition date.

 

I do not think too many people would disagree with that logic.

[Bespin 8,480]

In classical music domain the composition years(s) (a big classical work represent often more than one year of work) and the Premiere date always was two different things.

 

On a page called "composition" I try to organize the works by "Composition date". And I agree, it's sometimes tricky to "guess".

 

In fact, only the publisher can confirm the exact year(s) of composition of a work.

 

But my website is a fan site, so the better we can do is "guess" the composition date, when it has not been documented officially before.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Bespin fancies himself the Ludwig von Köchel of John Williams' oeuvre.  I'm waiting for him to start listing pieces styled like "Liberty Fanfare, B. 83" or something.

[Bespin 8,480]

3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Bespin fancies himself the Ludwig von Köchel of John Williams' oeuvre.  I'm waiting for him to start listing pieces styled like "Liberty Fanfare, B. 83" or something.

 

BES. 83!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

So did John Williams just get classical enthusiasts pumped for possible unconventional track listings for IX or what?!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Well, it would be nice if a complete discography adhered to the same standards everyone else does when discussing film music, instead of trying to force strange ideologies and make it like a pop musician's discography should look like.  Maybe one day logic will triumph over personal preference!

 

Agreed! It's a pity, because Bespin's discography is pretty much worthless in it's current shape.

 

He needs to conform!

[Jay 37,287]

It's not useless at all, it is a wonderful resource, parts of it are just organized in a way nobody else would 

[Bespin 8,480]

That's nonsense! Everything is not binary, black or white, like in your world Jay.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

It's not useless at all, it is a wonderful resource, parts of it are just organized in a way nobody else would 

 

And therefore useless and inaccurate. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I use his discography as a reference point.

[Bespin 8,480]

Just now, Jerry said:

I use his discography as a reference point.

 

It is in fact, thanks.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I deliberately don't!

 

Fuck, Wikipedia is more reliable than his stuff.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

It's on Wikipedia!

[Bespin 8,480]

Just now, Stefancos said:

I deliberately don't!

 

Fuck, Wikipedia is more reliable than his stuff.

 

I created the Wiki article of John William's discography!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Unwritten JWFan Rule #23: NEVER tell Bespin that you actually use his discography.  It only encourages him.

[Bespin 8,480]

Just now, Disco Stu said:

Unwritten JWFan Rule #23: NEVER tell Bespin that you actually use his discography.  It only encourages him.

 

That's the only pay I get from all this vast and expensive entreprise!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

3 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

I created the Wiki article of John William's discography!

 

I bet Stefan didn't see that one coming! 

 

3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Unwritten JWFan Rule #23: NEVER tell Bespin that you actually use his discography.  It only encourages him.

 

What are rules #1 to #22?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What are rules #1 to #22?

 

Much like with Bespin's discography, you'll have to piece them together for yourself.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Ha! I have no problem with that. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Much like with Bespin's discography, you'll have to piece them together for yourself.

 

Rule #22: You do not talk about JWFan.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Rule #22: You do not talk about JWFan.

 

We're already disregarding #1: Do not write any of the unwritten rules

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

[Bespin 8,480]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That's exactly the face I do when Jay talks about my discography!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Just now, Bespin said:

 

That's exactly the face I do when Jay talks about my discography!

 

Including the hair curls?

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

[karelm 2,903]

48 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

I created the Wiki article of John William's discography!

 

Haha...Bespin's lists are totally unreliable so I use http://www.goplanete.com/johnwilliams/composer/index.htm when I want reliability instead. 😜

 

Seriously, I consider the starting year not relevant but the ending year is more relevant in a catalog and a year of first performance has little to do with the composition in classical music.  Obviously we are talking about a composer who does both commercial work and concert work.  Things can get really complex with classical music.

 

For example, one of the most prolific English composers, Havergal Brian, only had a few early works performed in his life time.  His Symphony No. 1 was composed from 1919-1927.  It was first performed in 1962 but in a very abridged version that omitted half the movements.  1966 was the first performance by a professional ensemble but again omitted about twenty minutes of the music.  The first full performance was in 1980, eight years after the composer's death. The reason why the composition year is more relevant than performance year is because styles evolved and having an awareness of the context of the origin of the piece is important to scholars and students. So what year would you use?  To me, what makes the most sense is to actually have two dates, a comp year (the year the work was completed so 1928) and a premiere year (which is less important).  That way, it accounts for works that are extant but haven't been performed.  I think JW's Symphony would have some similar complexities.  As far as I know, it was composed in 1966, premiered in 1968, revised in 1987, and never performed in its revised version.  So how would this get cataloged? 

 

[rough cut 1,714]

The adagio is a wonderful surprise. I’m glad to hear it! It sits fine next to the new arrangement of Han Solo & The Princess.

 

Let’s hope both of these gets a proper recording and a release soon.

[TownerFan 4,983]

1 hour ago, karelm said:

The reason why the composition year is more relevant than performance year is because styles evolved and having an awareness of the context of the origin of the piece is important to scholars and students. So what year would you use?  To me, what makes the most sense is to actually have two dates, a comp year (the year the work was completed so 1928) and a premiere year (which is less important).  That way, it accounts for works that are extant but haven't been performed.  I think JW's Symphony would have some similar complexities.  As far as I know, it was composed in 1966, premiered in 1968, revised in 1987, and never performed in its revised version.  So how would this get cataloged? 

 

 

It’s all valid arguments. However, the most usual way in which classical works are being catalogued chronologically, it’s when the finished composition is submitted to the publisher. It’s mostly for royalty and copyright sake, I know (hence why Stravinsky used to submit revisions many times, so he could renew and collect more royalty money), but from a music history point of view is also convenient and logical.