Star Trek: Picard (2020 TV Series)

[Tallguy 3,359]

"No-Win Scenario". Oh good, I was afraid that there wouldn't be enough references to The Wrath of Khan.

 

On Jack's accent: "He went to school in London and couldn't shake it." That's the slyest James Horner reference I've ever heard!

[Giftheck 916]

7 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

"No-Win Scenario". Oh good, I was afraid that there wouldn't be enough references to The Wrath of Khan.

 

Only if the rescuing ship is named the USS Kobayashi Maru-D

 

(Personally, I think it'll be La Sirena)

[NL197 368]

I think the reveal of who was responsible for both issues taking place also explains Riker behaving the way he did.

[Goldfinger 59]

That was an incredibly intense episode. Some good character moments and some sorely missed space battles stuff. The Jack character was definitely played softer and not nearly as aggressively this episode, which was appreciated. I was not too familiar with the villain reveal and had to do some research afterwards to find out why it was such a big reveal. Look forward to see where things are going and if they can maintain the quality from here. 

 

Frakes did an amazing job this episode, both in front of and behind the camera. He was often relegated to just "being there" in the films but its nice to see some of that early Riker come back to the surface.

[JNHFan2000 2,941]

 

[Jay 37,266]

Gotta love a Lord of the Rings account asking about Star Trek music while ragging on other Star Trek music simultaneously, and still getting a nice response from the composer

[Tallguy 3,359]

So we're going to hear Goldsmith's "God" theme from Star Trek V?

 

Is Russo's Picard theme being used at all this season? I haven't noticed it but often I miss things.

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

So after getting several recommendations, I’ve binged the released episodes of the current season and I’m shocked to admit — I kind of love it. It’s nice to see these characters so well realized in a story that actually takes them seriously and doesn’t suck.
 

Anyway, what spoilery themes do y’all think are holding the album up? The DS9 and or Voyager themes? The danger motif? The theme from X-Men: The Animated Series?

[Tallguy 3,359]

Shatner!

[Giftheck 916]

It's obviously The Big Reveal (It Was Khan All Along)

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I’m surprised to be saying this but 5 episodes in and Picard Season 3 is actually…good? Definitely still has problems and a few non-Trekisms but it has improved significantly

 

That new showrunner is making a tremendous difference

 

Been enjoying the action tremendously more, one on one ship fights with interesting and creative tactics are infinitely more compelling than giant fleet battles

 

This show finally feels like it’s justifying it’s existence, these feel like worthwhile continuations of the TNG characters. I haven’t watched all of TNG myself and I’m impressed that despite there being what seems like some pretty deep cuts, the show is doing a good enough job giving me enough context to still care and feel the history without dumping exposition in a way that would feel unnatural for these characters

 

Music is better, visuals are better (and more restrained!), set design is better, writing is better, pacing is better, and the editing is better

 

A remarkable glow up from the absolute dreck of the previous two seasons. I’m still reeling from the fact that despite featuring more old characters than the previous seasons they’re integrated in an incredibly natural and worthwhile way that my brain isn’t even registering fan service 

[Andy 4,071]

I just watch it for Captain Shaw. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

I just watch it for Captain Shaw. 

Surprisingly three dimensional character, he’s quite an enjoyable foil, well-acted too

[Andy 4,071]

Yes absolutely.  He could’ve been just another Starfleet prick like the Excelsior captain in Star Trek III, but he’s complex, and ridiculously fun to watch. 

[Tallguy 3,359]

I still don't like Shaw. I know why I'm supposed to. I like the actor. I mostly like the attitude. But so far he has never done anything to back it up. If you're that much of a dipshit you have to at least have the Captain-y moves. Have him figure something out. Have him do something smart. Have at least one of the crew indicate that they want to follow their real captain.

 

I want to like him. I do. I mean, I'm a member of the Eddy Jellico fan club.

 

Good heavens, imagine if the TNG crew weren't ALSO acting like morons.

 

So far this season no one is fit to shine SNW's Captain Pike's boots.

[Andy 4,071]

I think he’s likable because he’s having so much fun being unlikable.   He’s not evil,  or is he heroic.  He does follow regulations though. And of course he’s got the great Wolf 359 backstory.  He’s just a great foil for Picard and Riker and Seven, who maybe might rise to the occasion before the season is over.  He’s fun to watch. 

[Goldfinger 59]

When the Jack revelation was revealed at the end of episode 2 that's what sealed the deal for me. He was antagonistic and clearly hates Picard, but he did not hesitate when he learned why his ship was under attack and did what he needed. He's a flawed man, but a good person at his core and wants to do the right thing regardless of his personal feelings.

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

Definitely enjoying this series more than the other two (from the low bar) but the thing that's struck me about this, as well as things like Discovery, plus Star Wars shows like The Mandalorian and the Bad Batch, is that it feels almost more relentlessly episodic than actual episodic television. Half the episodes are like a side quest to the main story, or some fairly incidental moment that is then stretched out to an entire episode. Is everyone just trying to replicate Game of Thrones now?! And I don't mean in the violence and sex stakes, but trying to make TV as a novel. It works for GOT because it was a novel but when you don't have all that rich backstory and range of characters and stories to follow, but these others shows just becomes "issue to deal with of the week" but without the satisfaction of it concluding within the episode (or a single cliffhanger).

 

If you're going to try and make TV like that, I think it needs to be more like most of Nu (Doctor) Who where there is an ongoing story in the background but most of the episodes are standalone and work in isolation, but the ongoing story adds an extra dimension and, most likely, some kind of epic season conclusion. Making the entire season about a single story that actually isn't enough to sustain that season requires too much padding so you get side quests to fill the time that aren't that interesting on their own.

 

Back to Discovery... for my sins.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

 

 

14 hours ago, Andy said:

I think he’s likable because he’s having so much fun being unlikable.   He’s not evil,  or is he heroic.  He does follow regulations though. And of course he’s got the great Wolf 359 backstory.

 

Yeah, I'm enjoying the character (and the show) quite a bit.

 

That said, I think Jean-Luc Picard should finally say enough to people throwing Wolf 359 at him. I get that he was taken aback by Sisko's hostility because it was all still raw, but it's been decades now, it wasn't his fault, and people in Starfleet should be used to the whole being controlled by an alien entity thing. Get over it.

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

8 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

That said, I think Jean-Luc Picard should finally say enough to people throwing Wolf 359 at him. I get that he was taken aback by Sisko's hostility because it was all still raw, but it's been decades now, it wasn't his fault, and people in Starfleet should be used to the whole being controlled by an alien entity thing. Get over it.

Yeah, it's not like he defected of his own free will... anyone who understood how the Borg work would know that once you're in the collective, you do their bidding.

[JNHFan2000 2,941]

For those looking forward to it.

Tracklist and runtime revealed. It will be released in 27 days.

 

https://www.qobuz.com/nz-en/album/star-trek-picard-season-3-original-series-soundtrack-stephen-barton-frederik-wiedmann/eea2er3byofga

 

 

1. Beverly Crusher
2. Old Communicator
3. Hello, Beautiful
4. Leaving Spacedock
5. I Like That Seven!
6. Breaking The Beam
7. The Shrike
8. Picard’s Answer
9. Riker And Jack
10. Call Me Number One
11. No Win Scenario
12. Blood In The Water
13. Let’s Go Home
14. Flying Blind
15. A New Family
16. Klingons Never Disappoint
17. I Do See You
18. Legacies
19. Evolution
20. La Forges
21. Invisible Rescue
22. Catch Me First
23. Proteus
24. Dominion
25. Lower The Partition
26. Get Off My Bridge
27. Family Reunion
28. Impossible
29. Frontier Day
30. Hail The Fleet
31. You Have The Conn
32. Make It So
33. This Ends Tonight
34. Battle On The Bridge
35. All That’s Left
36. Annihilate
37. Trust Me
38. The Last Generation
39. Where It All Began
40. The Missing Part Of Me
41. Must Come To An End
42. A New Day
43. Legacy And Future
44. Names Mean Everything
45. The Stars – End Credits

2 hours and 30 minutes

 

[Giftheck 916]

You know what would be funny?
 

Spoiler

If Shinzon's theme showed up in the later part of the soundtrack.

 

It would certainly explain the newest episode's reveal of what was stolen from Daystrom and why they need Jack.

 

Spoiler

We've already got the Data theme from Nemesis when the Daystrom Android (can't think of a better name since it's not Data, Lore, B-4 or anything else) is woken up.

 

[wowbobwow 69]

I don't really like Picard.  I stopped watching season 1 after eyeballs were being gouged out like something out of a Saw movie.  I skipped season 2 altogether.  Season 3 has been a little better but the real reason I've been tuning in is for the score.  Great execution of a throwback to Goldsmith and Horner.

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

Season 3 is just a "little" better? What are you smoking? It's leaps and bounds better!

[Andy 4,071]

Ep6 The Bounty was absolutely fantastic. 
 

We are now firing on all warp nacelles.   This…this is why we all tuned in when the show was announced. 

So the Daystrom institute has their own Genesis device?  And somehow the remains(?) of James T Kirk?

[wowbobwow 69]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

Season 3 is just a "little" better? What are you smoking? It's leaps and bounds better!

It is, but it's still mystery box Star Trek and I hate mystery box Star Trek lol.

[Andy 4,071]

I’d have to watch it again, but did I hear Dennis McCarthy’s Nexus Theme just before they showed “Kirk”?

[pete 902]

27 minutes ago, wowbobwow said:

It is, but it's still mystery box Star Trek and I hate mystery box Star Trek lol.

 

What I disliked about Star Trek Discovery was that every season seemed to be about some mysterious spacial anomoly! 

[Andy 4,071]

TNG practically invented the use of the word “anomaly”.  This is not new to Star Trek, and no fault of Discovery. 

[pete 902]

Yeah, there were a few STNG episode about anomilies, but most seasons of Discovery were based around a spacial anomoly. I just felt it got old by season 4

[wowbobwow 69]

I don't mind whatever technobabble plot device they want to use, for me I take issue with the method of storytelling. I don't think Star Trek benefits from mystery box storytelling you see in a lot of post-Netflix television.  Many shows that use this style of storytelling use it to obfuscate hack writing and Star Trek Picard is definitely one of those shows.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

Interview: ‘Picard’ Season 3 Composers On How They Are Reviving Classic Star Trek Music

 

Pretty extensive & informative interviews!

[Andy 4,071]

Ep7 Dominion gave me mixed reaction.  They gave us some fine interactions with the villains, but the Starfleet=Evil story told by Vadic is unappealing and tiresome.   This episode needed Riker and Troi, who they left in peril from the previous episode.  With only a few episodes left, I’m feeling like the Avengers need to Assemble pretty soon, and not be separated like the Force Awakens.   Still good, but somehow less fun this week. 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

this new episode really took things out of control spoilers do not watch if you aren't ready to see

 

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

15 hours ago, Andy said:

Ep7 Dominion gave me mixed reaction.  They gave us some fine interactions with the villains, but the Starfleet=Evil story told by Vadic is unappealing and tiresome.   This episode needed Riker and Troi, who they left in peril from the previous episode.  With only a few episodes left, I’m feeling like the Avengers need to Assemble pretty soon, and not be separated like the Force Awakens.   Still good, but somehow less fun this week. 

 

Less fun is right.

 

While I've been enjoying this season, this week was a step-down. I found it to be dark, mean, bleak, and cruel in a very uncharacteristic way for Trek. I'm tired of the Federation being treated dystopian nightmare. The way Picard didn't even push back on Vadic's one-sided version of the end of the Dominion war made him appear weak and feeble. And while we're on Vadic, Amanda Plummer's over the top portrayal, while initially weird in an interesting sort of way, is wearing thin and grown annoying. And hearing her repeatedly say "PEE-CARD" is just grating.

 

It's a shame, because last weeks episode was outstanding, and for the first time I've been really enjoying nuTrek. I'll continue watching, and I do think Picard Season 3 is the best Trek we've got since Enterprise. But I'm really not convinced Terry Matalas is the saviour of the franchise many think he is.

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

54 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Less fun is right.

 

While I've been enjoying this season, this week was a step-down. I found it to be dark, mean, bleak, and cruel in a very uncharacteristic way for Trek. I'm tired of the Federation being treated dystopian nightmare. The way Picard didn't even push back on Vadic's one-sided version of the end of the Dominion war made him appear weak and feeble. And while we're on Vadic, Amanda Plummer's over the top portrayal, while initially weird in an interesting sort of way, is wearing thin and grown annoying. And hearing her repeatedly say "PEE-CARD" is just grating.

 

It's a shame, because last weeks episode was outstanding, and for the first time I've been really enjoying nuTrek. I'll continue watching, and I do think Picard Season 3 is the best Trek we've got since Enterprise. But I'm really not convinced Terry Matalas is the saviour of the franchise many think he is.

 

Agreed on most of that. Interesting watching the Bad Batch alongside and the evil scientist storyline in that which is a fine in a "the Empire were the Nazis" kinda way but turning the Federation into the Empire doing immoral experiments feels much too far - if the Dominion had somehow had a hand in the experiments (which I appreciate would sightly ruin the premise) and twisted what the Federation was doing, I could buy that, but essentially if Vadic's telling of events is true (flashbacks in a show like this tend to imply it's real rather than someone bullshitting, although I concede it may not be the case) the Federation just kinda went evil on its own which just feeds into the misery porn style of much of this show.

 

Also, was it meant to be suggested that setting Data/Lore/whatever free was a setup by the Changelings? If not, the entire premise of the episode hinges on a Data ex machina (see what I did there) - or rather the opposite of one, where the bad buys win because of something external affecting the outcome. Without Data/Lore there, Vadic and crew would likely have easily been contained.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

but turning the Federation into the Empire doing immoral experiments feels much too far - if the Dominion had somehow had a hand in the experiments (which I appreciate would sightly ruin the premise) and twisted what the Federation was doing, I could buy that, but essentially if Vadic's telling of events is true (flashbacks in a show like this tend to imply it's real rather than someone bullshitting, although I concede it may not be the case) the Federation just kinda went evil on its own which just feeds into the misery porn style of much of this show.

 

Well I think the idea was that it was Section 31 doing the experiments.

 

Setting aside the fact that the Section 31 card has been pulled way too much at this point, Picard definitely should have pushed back harder instead of cowering. He could have mentioned, again, that the Federation did in fact give the cure to the Founders (via Odo). And reminded her that it was the Founders who started the war, infiltrated the Federation even before the war, utilized biological weapons of their own (the "Blight") and murdered billions of people, including at attempted genocide of the entire Cardassian population. Instead, he just looked feeble and guilty.

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

14 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Well I think the idea was that it was Section 31 doing the experiments.

 

Setting aside the fact that the Section 31 card has been pulled way too much at this point, Picard definitely should have pushed back harder instead of cowering. He could have mentioned, again, that the Federation did in fact give the cure to the Founders (via Odo). And reminded her that it was the Founders who started the war, infiltrated the Federation even before the war, utilized biological weapons of their own (the "Blight") and murdered billions of people, including at attempted genocide of the entire Cardassian population. Instead, he just looked feeble and guilty.

Section 31 makes more sense although agree that pulling it out at every opportunity as a way to introduce some sinister element to the Federation is quite tiresome. Good points re Picard. Trying to pin it all on the Federation when, had the Dominion won, they would have just wiped out the solids seems disingenuous at best. 

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

The fanboys are eating it up, but that last episode was kinda weak. Y’all have already mentioned how wrong it is for

Spoiler

the Federation to be performing cruel experiments on changeling POWs

and I agree, but I was just as disturbed to see 

Spoiler

Picard and Beverly choose to become killers and take out Vadic when they thought they had her contained

without any sort of discussion as to the ethics of the situation.

[Giftheck 916]

Now that is how you handle a reunion! And I thought they couldn't top the TNG crew sitting around the table in the last episode. Star Wars, take note!

 

I knew it was coming, but damn did it make me smile to see

 

Spoiler

The Enterprise-D, rebuilt and ready to fly

 

Can we just bin Kurtzman entirely and let Matalas handle the future of Star Trek?

[JNHFan2000 2,941]

 

[Andy 4,071]

Yeah that was really heartwarming.  But dang, did they have to 

Spoiler

Kill off Capt. Shaw? They seem to be setting up a show with Seven in command of the Titan, but I think they wasted a perfectly good, flawed yet lovable character.

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

Lakeshore Records uploaded the full OST to YouTube... 2 weeks ago?!

 

 

[Giftheck 916]

Well, it was nice while it lasted. They just made it private.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,889]

47 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

Well, it was nice while it lasted. They just made it private.

 

I made the mistake of leaving a comment. 10 minutes later it was made private. 

 

[Giftheck 916]

Shame. I was hoping to be able to grab it before they noticed.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

My prediction for the finale...

 

Spoiler

Wesley will come back to save the Federation and all mankind...  Beverly did mention him in yesterday's episode and they've been bringing back multiple characters this season.

 

[Giftheck 916]

In all honesty, given they're on their own, here's a small list of things I'd expect:

 

Spoiler

-The Borg scatter before the Enterprise gets to Earth, leaving only a few ships.

-A signal is sent out by the Enterprise, notifying the galaxy at large of the Borg takeover of Starfleet.

-We'll get a battle between Enterprise-D and Enterprise-F

-Vox vs Picard. Data vs Borg Queen.

-Unknown to the Borg Queen, Picard didn't just pass down Borg genes to Jack, he passed down the means to actually resist them.

-Once it's all over, the Titan rides out with the Enterprise.

-Another Tuvok appearance, since apparently Tim Russ filmed for two episodes.

 

Here's a little list of stuff that while I wouldn't necessarily expect, I'd definitely count as possiblities

Spoiler

-Both the Klingons and Romulans receive the Enterprise's signal, and come to its aid agains their common enemy

-The leader of the Romulan fleet is no other than Sela (Denise Crosby). She's the only other member of the TNG cast who hasn't yet appeared unless you count the hologram of her in Surrender.

-Janeway is aboard Probert Station and manages to escape, rescue the original Tuvok, get to the Fleet Museum and reactivate Voyager to assist.

-Sisko turns up in Defiant.

-Another ship turns up unexpectedly - the Enterprise-A. Kirk was successfully revived by Project Phoenix and was let out during their adventures at Daystrom Station. Enterprise-A is maybe destroyed with Kirk aboard in an actual sacrificial act and not an accident involving a rusty old bridge.

 

Here's something I really hope doesn't happen:

Spoiler

-Picard himself dying.

-I could maybe see Jack dying to save the Federation, realising that as long as he's alive, the Borg Queen could simply try again and that without him, her plan is dead.

 

Absolute crack theories:

Spoiler

-Q didn't actually die last season, he's just a 'higher form' now, and he swings by, blaming himself for this all happening due to his 'antics' back in the day when he first introduced the Enterprise to the Borg.

-Wesley saves the day

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

14 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

Here's something I really hope doesn't happen:

  Hide contents

-Picard himself dying.

 

I'd rather they kill Picard than have killed

Spoiler

Shaw.

That was...disappointing.

 

[Giftheck 916]

Spoiler

Is Shaw actually dead, though?