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Star Trek: Picard (2020 TV Series)

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4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

You'd really describe his scores for Fargo as "great"?  While watching, I didn't note anything particular about them one way or the other, beyond the parts where he just imitated Burwell.

 

I have his Fargo work on album and I would describe it as "very good". He does an excellent job of channelling Burwell's very fine film score, IMO. But either he was bad composer casting for Trek, or with all of the producer "cooks in the kitchen", he did exactly what he was instructed to do. I think there's at least some chance it's the latter, because while Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country is a fantastic score, the great Cliff Eidelman was invited to submit demos for Star Trek: Discovery that IMO turned out to sound as relatively drab and un-inspired as Russo's eventual work on the show...here's his rejected main title (for some reason put up against the show's season 2 title sequence):

 

You can listen to the other three demo cues he wrote here: https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/30/listen-to-a-discarded-score-for-star-trek-discovery/

Now before you say it's just because Cliff Eidelman is a washed up composer at this point (since he hasn't scored a feature film for 8 years), you should hear his Symphony for Two Pianos and Orchestra, written roughly around the same time period as those uninspiring Trek demos and recorded with no less than the LSO -- all three movements are on YouTube right now and they are *marvelous*:

 

 

 

(If like me you think that's fantastic work, and want to buy the album on CD, it's only $12.97 from CDBaby, and it includes a whole other concert work that's also fantastic: https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/cliffeidelman12)

 

In contrast to both Eidelman's demo and Russo's final score for the show, the demo work Austin Wintory submitted for Discovery is far superior IMO, but he produced it entirely on his own initiative without any directives from above:
https://medium.com/@awintory/star-trek-discovery-in-a-parallel-universe-94695577457a


What do you think?

 

Yavar

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If you ever got in to spoilers for this show, mostly no surprises in the pilot.

 

However...

 

The twins being Data's daughters from a painting given to Picard 30 years ago...I just don't know about that stuff. Definitely seems like a Kurtzman thing. I thought the guy who wrote Spider-Man 2 was doing this show?

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6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

@Yavar Moradi I was already familiar with Wintory's excellent demo for Discovery.  Obviously, they did not go in that direction, tonally, unfortunately.  If I'm honest, I despise Russo's music for Discovery so much, it kinda sours me on him as a composer overall.  The main title is really obviously modeled on Game of Thrones and it annoys me so much that they did that in a franchise with such a rich musical history.  My problem with Kurtzman-era Trek generally is that he's reduced Star Trek to trend chasing, to just aping the style and tone of modern "prestige" television instead of letting Trek be its own thing.

 

I agree with you on all that, and I can understand your feelings. I already became a fan of Russo's work on Fargo (and had heard his work on Legion was good) before Star Trek: Discovery happened. So I was cautiously optimistic about his involvement...and let's just say I was disappointed. :) I used to hate Leonard Rosenman's score for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home so much that it soured me on the rest of his output too. But now I've learned to appreciate him a bit more, and even grown to like certain scores of his like Cross Creek. So maybe one day you'll warm up to some of Russo's *other* work.

P.S. @Jurassic Shark thanks for posting the Spotify link to Eidelman's Symphony. Here's the link for the companion work on the CD (a chamber orchestra work performed by members of the London Symphony Orchestra)...it is utterly superb as well:

And just for the heck of it, here's a Spotify link for all four of Eidelman's Star Trek: Discovery demo pieces...not so superb, as I've already indicated, though they're not awful or anything (just a far, far cry from his fantastic score to Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country):
 

 

So like I said, Jeff Russo might be giving the current Trek producers exactly the sort of bland music they're asking for. Let's not forget what happened to Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway's initially more bold approach, over the course of their time on Star Trek: The Next Generation (to say nothing of Ron Jones who was "let go" for his music calling too much attention to itself)...

Yavar

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The episode was basically well-scored if lacking in the old familiar themes. It's the last scene that was musically very problematic for me and reminded me of Discovery/JJ universe. All the stuff with Picard was generally excellent just seeing him. An early scene was especially poignant and full of exposition for us, and I think Stewart really sold it.

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I think what was missing at times was the established Star Trek look. For instance, while they had some faithful wide establishing shots of Starfleet, the scenes filmed on location were very obviously the Anaheim Convention Center next to Disneyland and you could see the normal mundane present-day doors behind them rather than Trekian sliding ones.

 

Also, the Federation archives were a ripoff of the Jedi archives.

 

I liked the parallel with Star Trek VI storyline.

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55 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I don't know why people like Jeff Russo so much. Everything I've heard of his was boring and/or unoriginal. I haven't seen Picard yet, but I'm sure the score is yet other snoozefest.

 

Agreed. Russo is one of these new composers that are getting a lot of projects, but I simply can't get into his music.

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3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Nope. All Star Trek shows are CBS All Access exclusives from here on out, unfortunately...

 

Why do I have to pay money to watch these shows when back in my day, we could just see it on the proper TV for free?

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Haven't read a single post in this thread, but I saw the premiere. Pretty neat. I love how they're trying to combine more contemporary, realistic styles with the campy 'pointy ear' sci fi of previous STAR TREK incarnations.

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It's my "go-to" derogatory description of this type of sci fi. STAR TREK is silly that way. But I've enjoyed the recent two series -- DISCOVERY and now PICARD.

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I loved the pilot for Star Trek Picard, looking forward to next weeks episode.  

Regarding the score ya I'm not sure why a lot of people like Russo's music either.


When watching Picard I was paying attention to the music but outside of the main theme to me it just was like Discovery's music ....not that aspiring.

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1 hour ago, Trent B said:

I loved the pilot for Star Trek Picard, looking forward to next weeks episode.  

Regarding the score ya I'm not sure why a lot of people like Russo's music either.


When watching Picard I was paying attention to the music but outside of the main theme to me it just was like Discovery's music ....not that aspiring.

 

Isn't it such a sad state of affairs though, how we've now not only been conditioned to expect uninteresting musical scoring, but that we don't even bother to listen out for the music at all anymore. 

 

Sigh, it's such a dead hobby for all but the most ardent listeners out there.

 

And here we are, supposed to be trying to be upbeat and chatty about soundtrack music, on a specialist message board.

 

Hmm... Are Jason and Ricard actually in denial about the scoring medium - and its future?

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Hmm. I didn't mind the music and I usually hate everything. You know, the music for TNG and other Trek series in the 90s was a lot of endless strings and the same cadence (?) for every commercial break. Picard's pilot score was just fine.

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19 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Hmm. I didn't mind the music and I usually hate everything. You know, the music for TNG and other Trek series in the 90s was a lot of endless strings and the same cadence (?) for every commercial break. Picard's pilot score was just fine.

 

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6 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

I, of course, thought Discovery's theme was ass, but then so is the show. I also thought Giacchino's scores were ass and nothing like Star Trek, but then again, look at the movies. All the romanticism stripped away, a lame attempt to make Trek seem more epic and badass. Yeah.

What's Star Trek meant to sound like, though? Each of the shows and films has a different voice and they all adhere to a type of romanticism one way or another. It doesn't really have a unified voice like Star Wars or Harry Potter. 

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3 hours ago, Arpy said:

What's Star Trek meant to sound like, though? Each of the shows and films has a different voice and they all adhere to a type of romanticism one way or another. It doesn't really have a unified voice like Star Wars or Harry Potter. 

 

And yet somehow it does.

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Welp, let's see how many people get mad now the Star Trek Countdown comic is properly non-canon. TBH I didn't expect that I would have had a tiny bit of symapthy with Nero (I assumed his 'the Federation did nothing' rant was just typical villain speak, when it turns out the Federation did, in fact, do nothing) by the end of it.

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11 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

That's one thing about this show that works for me. The slow pace. Patrick Stewart acting and being emotional. Talky scenes. Little action. A mystery. It was like...Star Trek.

 

I feel like, no matter what can be said about the show, they nailed Picard. The dialogue doesn't come across as a close approximation, the way he has changed over the last 20 years doesn't feel untrue to the character we initially fell in love with. It's the real deal, and seeing Stewart back giving his 150% for Trek is wondrous and surreal. 

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Alright first episode, loved seeing Picard, Daystrom, Data and Starfleet Headquarters but the writing was all over the place! Just hoping they keep a level head and know what they're doing with this.

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7 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

I feel like, no matter what can be said about the show, they nailed Picard. The dialogue doesn't come across as a close approximation, the way he has changed over the last 20 years doesn't feel untrue to the character we initially fell in love with. It's the real deal, and seeing Stewart back giving his 150% for Trek is wondrous and surreal. 

 

Picard was great, the rest didn't feel anything like TNG.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Picard was great, the rest didn't feel anything like TNG.

 

 

 

Wasn't that stated to be the point? That it wasn't supposed to feel like TNG?

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28 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

I'm okay with it not feeling like TNG.


Same here. It's not meant to feel like TNG. This is meant to be about the character Picard and what happened with him 20 years from the events of Nemesis and what they're showing now.


I expected the pilot to be a bit of a slow start. I'm sure the rest of the series will pick up pace and be more consistent. It might end up feeling late TNG/Nemesis era as time goes on.

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11 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

For my money, the gold standards are Fred Steiner’s TOS underscoring and TNG’s main title (Courage fanfare/Goldsmith theme).

 

Thats ignoring hundreds of hours of Berman era scoring

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