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Star Trek: Picard (2020 TV Series)

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9 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

The more graphic violence and bleak, almost dystopian tone are making me wince much more than some naughty words.  But I’m still enjoying the characters, I’m in it til the end.  I also wish it wasn’t relying so much on the story structure of withholding information/motivations from the audience just to string us along from episode to episode.

 

I just rewatched Voyager seasons 6 and 7 over the past few weeks, so the killing of Icheb actually hit close to home for me.  That was definitely the single most satisfying and well-developed relationship Seven had in the original show, outside of the vaguely mother-daughter-ish one with Janeway.

 

I covered part of the screen there. Funny that all Star Trek fans get hung up on seem to be cussing...I believe in the British vernacular, we Star Trek fans would be referred to as "precious".

 

I don't have a note of the Voyager theme in my head, but in the scene I thought the music was too effective, so I immediately assumed it was Goldsmith.

 

 

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I’ve seen 3 or 4 episodes now, and the show seems to be tailored made for hardcore Star Trek fans.

 

I thought E1 was interesting, but for me, it has been downhill since.

 

The last episode I saw ended with Picard being saved by some woman with a thing on her face, that I guess you were supposed to recognize... ? It was filmed that way, like a big reveal. But Iq am not a Star Trek nerd so that went right over my head and I think I’ll just tune out from now on.

 

Or maybe one more to find out who space lady is?

 

Edit: I guess I should point out that the show feels extremely well made, grand even.

 

Maybe I’m wrong but it seems the typical show to get cancelled...  there’s not enough action, it’s too much of a slow burner, it relies too much on lore... and then, a few years after it’s cancelled - and because it takes time for people to discover all the layers and depth - it will be hailed as one of the greatest sci-fi shows ever and we will all lament its cancellation.

 

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8 hours ago, rough cut said:

I’ve seen 3 or 4 episodes now, and the show seems to be tailored made for hardcore Star Trek fans.

 

I thought E1 was interesting, but for me, it has been downhill since.

 

The last episode I saw ended with Picard being saved by some woman with a thing on her face, that I guess you were supposed to recognize... ? It was filmed that way, like a big reveal. But Iq am not a Star Trek nerd so that went right over my head and I think I’ll just tune out from now on.

 

Or maybe one more to find out who space lady is?

 

Edit: I guess I should point out that the show feels extremely well made, grand even.

 

Maybe I’m wrong but it seems the typical show to get cancelled...  there’s not enough action, it’s too much of a slow burner, it relies too much on lore... and then, a few years after it’s cancelled - and because it takes time for people to discover all the layers and depth - it will be hailed as one of the greatest sci-fi shows ever and we will all lament its cancellation.

 

 

 

As someone squarely in this category, I can tell you this show was made pretty much only for existing super-fans of the Berman era (1987-2005) Star Trek shows.  And I can tell you that thus far Picard is a big hit with that fan group, a group that's been ignored since the JJ/Kurtzman era began, so there's not even a smidgen of a chance it gets cancelled.  They'll keep making it as long as Patrick Stewart is up for it.

 

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I'm not convinced this is a big hit with old school Trek fans, really. I'm sure some people love it, but others like Trent are turned off by the completely different tone.

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21 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

I'm not convinced this is a big hit with old school Trek fans, really. I'm sure some people love it, but others like Trent are turned off by the completely different tone.

 

But in spite of his proclamations of giving up on the show he continues to watch, so there might be something to this show after all. So far I would say it's potentially the most interesting Trek we've gotten in about twenty years.

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9 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

I'm not convinced this is a big hit with old school Trek fans, really. I'm sure some people love it, but others like Trent are turned off by the completely different tone.

 

I watched TNG from literally the moment it began airing, and this show barely works for me at all.  Whatever they're making, they're not making Star Trek, at least not as I think of it.

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Is it just me or is the de-aging work on Stewart in this flawless? I'm watching in crisp Amazon streaming quality and try as I might I just cannot see the seams. It's utterly convincing.

 

Only the aged croak in the voice gives it away.

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2 hours ago, Quintus said:

You're saying they're digitally ageing him for the "present day" scenes? Because I saw Stewart on Graham Norton the other day and he does look that old.

 

I'm not sure if they've been advancing his physical age with makeup or something. In fact, I'm not even sure if they realize he's supposed to be in his 90s. However, comparing his old man speak on the show with how he sounds in interviews, he definitely comes off as older on the show. 

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On 2/20/2020 at 10:40 PM, Nick Parker said:

 

How many "fucks" does it take, Admiral, before it becomes wrong? Hm? 10? 5? 1? How many "fucks" does it take, Admiral!


Take out that completely utterly fucking stupid joystick on the bridge and that film isn't that bad. 

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Haven't got around to watching the latest ep yet, but this show is all kinds of wrong. Picard/Patrick Stewart is great, the world he lives in Star Trek:Picard isn't. I'm not going to give up on the show, I'll see it through but I'm not liking any of the direction of the story or characters.

 

This show has all the filthy fingerprints of Star Trek Discovery and feels more like a botched alternate timeline instead of the Prime timeline. 

 

This show is infuriating to watch because one moment there's genuine passion and a sense that maybe the writers did their homework - then the next scene is so anti-Trek that it negates all the good it did before!

 

What makes things worse is that this is taking the legacy of Picard and TNG and presenting this story as the way the character will say his goodbyes, exploiting characters, iconography, music etc. to sell this aborted fetus of a show and instead of feeling like a warm, lovingly crafted continuation, it comes off as a sad, shiny, plastic version of Trek with none of the ideals or standards that made TNG and Trek great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, I have various issues with the show but I'm seeing it through because I enjoy Stewart in the role and every week there's something joyous like last night's scenes with Riker and even Deanna, which were amazing.

 

Still, I don't really get why it seems like every week we meet someone who hates Picard. Give the guy some respect. It's pure fucking hubris. Some of the storylines have been rather atrocious, notably the lumbersexual Romulan guy and the Soji broad. That was intolerable!

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I loved that the majority of this episode put the brakes on big time, and focused so much on the relationships between all the characters, old and new. All of the stuff with Soji questioning her reality  whilst genuinely enjoying this too-good-to-be-true idyllic setting was very well-done, if a little too back and forth between the extremes of "I don't trust any of you or anything!" and finding a sense of belonging.

 

I'm bummed that the prophecy stuff seems to be run-of-the-mill robot apocalypse, but I'm hoping there'll be some twists that make it more nuanced and compelling.

 

 

One thing I noticed watching this episode is that every returning character we've seen thus far feels like they've followed a very natural trajectory in their lives over the in-universe years. Hugh being a director of a Borg rehabilitation center, Riker and Troi living in peaceful semi-retirement, etc. Sorry to dredge up the ancient comparisons, but with the Disney Star Wars movies, whether you enjoyed or not the returning characters and where they were, it doesn't feel very...intuitive. When Hugh got killed--the third time the show has brought back a decades-old character then kills them off--I gasped. But I also thought, "Here he was, committed to leading a noble cause, amid a Borg ship." It felt very appropriate, and poignant even. Compare that with Han's death in Force Awakens...I felt numb and disappointed in myself that I couldn't make myself feel the emotions I thought I should.

 

 

Next episode looks really good: with Seven of Nine returning, this show has proven that outside of name drops and cute one-liner references, that these character returns are way more than fan-service cameo spots, and are an integral part of the story.

 

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1 hour ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Well, I have various issues with the show but I'm seeing it through because I enjoy Stewart in the role and every week there's something joyous like last night's scenes with Riker and even Deanna, which were amazing.

 

Still, I don't really get why it seems like every week we meet someone who hates Picard. Give the guy some respect. It's pure fucking hubris. Some of the storylines have been rather atrocious, notably the lumbersexual Romulan guy and the Soji broad. That was intolerable!

 

I hope this isn't the only time we see Riker and Deanna. 

Your other sentence I do agree with some of that.  To be honest Picard did make quite a bit of enemies when he was in Starfleet.

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This mediocre directed show has the exact same bad telegraphic writing as the Harry Potter movies. There's no sense of distance or time passing. One moment they are here, the next frame they are somewhere else. Then there's all the explaining Picard needs so that the audience knows what's going on. And where's Picard, the authoritative commander who we all love and admire? Patrick Stewart is playing him way too warm and soft. 

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7 hours ago, Arpy said:

Haven't got around to watching the latest ep yet, but this show is all kinds of wrong. Picard/Patrick Stewart is great, the world he lives in Star Trek:Picard isn't. I'm not going to give up on the show, I'll see it through but I'm not liking any of the direction of the story or characters.

 

This show has all the filthy fingerprints of Star Trek Discovery and feels more like a botched alternate timeline instead of the Prime timeline. 

 

This show is infuriating to watch because one moment there's genuine passion and a sense that maybe the writers did their homework - then the next scene is so anti-Trek that it negates all the good it did before!

 

What makes things worse is that this is taking the legacy of Picard and TNG and presenting this story as the way the character will say his goodbyes, exploiting characters, iconography, music etc. to sell this aborted fetus of a show and instead of feeling like a warm, lovingly crafted continuation, it comes off as a sad, shiny, plastic version of Trek with none of the ideals or standards that made TNG and Trek great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of this makes classic-era Trek seem more miraculous to me.  The degradation of his approach began even before Roddenberry died, and it's seemingly almost all the way gone in the modern era.  Who will give half a crap about Discovery in thirty years?  Nobody.  And nobody is going to care about Picard, either, except maybe as a footnote to TNG.  On their own merits -- "merits" -- these shows are bland, uninteresting, philosophically bankrupt exercises in IP utilization, and that's about all they are.

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I don't think the show is a lost cause, but it seems to reaffirm my position that it's incredibly difficult to make Trek now, as opposed to 30 years ago. 

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Episode 7 was the best of the series so far!  It wasn't even just the nostalgia of seeing Picard with Riker and Troi again, we also finally get some real, interesting character development for Soji, which was very welcome.

 

The series has gotten a LOT better over the last two episodes I'd say.

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5 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Not all TNG fans like The Orville!  (although the music is great)


Not all TNG fans liked Voyager, either (I thought it was generally a pale facsimile, when I wished it had been its own unique show and delivered more on its exciting premise).

But both Voyager and The Orville are clearly in the TNG tradition (like them or not), much moreso than Star Trek: Picard is.

 

Yavar

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1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

But both Voyager and The Orville are clearly in the TNG tradition (like them or not), much moreso than Star Trek: Picard is.

 

That's partly because TV (or now streaming) has evolved in the past few decades. Season-long story lines for one thing - which DS9 did in its later seasons, after Roddenberry had died and they could get away with not always adhering to his rules 10%. Or harsher language (which certainly wasn't an option back in the TNG days, so it wasn't a conscious decision to not have that in the Trek universe back then). Apparently, TNG has been criticised for having a too harmonious cast of characters (another thing DS9 changed), and now apparently Picard is being criticised for not having a TNG style happy family crew. When Voyager first came out, it had an interesting premise, but it suffered for years from sticking too much to TNG's formula (without being as good at it as your average later season TNG episode) and taking too little from what made DS9 different (like more serialized story arcs; the whole reset universe concept within a season was really at odds with the core idea of finding a way back home).

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12 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

To be fair, TNG evolved into an incredible show by season 3.

 

Agreed.

 

Deep Space Nine is my favorite of the Trek incarnations and always will be.

 

I really liked Voyager probably my second favorite Trek incarnation and I think it gets too much flak from a lot of people. But let's be fair they were pretty gutsy to make a series about a Federation ship that gets pulled into the Delta Quadrant and for the most part is the only Federation ship (until they meet up with the Equinox for the brief time). Yes it did have some TNG elements but overall I enjoyed it and so does my wife.

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I think TNG is the best. DS9 and Voyager are also solid shows with many great episodes, true to the spirit of Trek or not. I even enjoy Enterprise seasons 3/4 and prefer the serialized storytelling to DS9, which seems to get all the credit for that.

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