Odds of a 4K UHD LOTR trilogy release?

[Chen G. 3,944]

4 hours ago, Holko said:

No way, even the lazy previous blus threw in the appendices and PJ's been teasing more stuff like deleted scenes definitely coming later since the DVDs came out!

 

He has, but until this remaster, Warner's were reluctant to pull out the camera negative and scan it, which would be required for a reel of deleted scenes. Therefore, it never happened. Now, though...

[Jay 37,301]

Warner?

I know New Line is owned by WB, but are you saying execs at WB were deciding things about LOTR home video releases that overruled both PJ and New Line?

[Chen G. 3,944]

Well, the negative is stored at Warner Bros, so...

 

At the time of the Bluray release Jackson said:
 

Quote

There was the added difficulty of [Warner Bros.] needing to access the original negative and scan the outtakes, bloopers and additional sequences. They declined to do this.

 

[Jay 37,301]

Interesting!

[crumbs 14,304]

FOTR looks absolutely beautiful, I must say. The remaster is top notch.

 

It does appear to have a faint layer of DNR across the presentation but it probably helps blend the live-action non-VFX shots with the VFX shots, so it's understandable (though I wish they'd tried to match the 'cleaner' VFX shots to the grainy live action shots, rather than the other way around).

 

Still the best home video presentation of the film by far, and a huge improvement on that teal mess from the previous release.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

14 hours ago, crocodile said:

I'm not sure where did they learn that. Or indeed if there is any truth to that.

 

14 hours ago, crocodile said:

according to Warner Bros. Home Entertainment

 

[crocodile 7,984]

14 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

 

Smartass. I meant that I can't verify that.

 

Karol

[Holko 9,499]

Quote

“In addition, it was also announced that a 4K UHD Middle-earth Ultimate Collectors’ Edition featuring the theatrical and extended versions of all six films, along with new bonus content, previously released Blu-ray discs of The Hobbit Trilogy, and remastered Blu-ray discs of The Lord of the Rings Trilogy will be released in the summer of 2021. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy featuring remastered Blu-ray discs of the theatrical and extended versions of the 3 films will also be released in the fourth quarter 2021, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.”

This is still all the reference to it I can find.

[crumbs 14,304]

A featurette on the remaster.

 

I really hope Peter is okay, he doesn't look too well in these clips.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

The Hobbit films took their toll.

[Bofur01 245]

These have updated on iTunes, and I've had a brief flick through.

 

I think on the whole, these releases are definitely an improvement on what came before. LotR looks great (ignore the "photos of a screen" posted by certain reviewers online, their phone cameras really didn't give an accurate representation at all). Some shots do seem a bit smooth and fuzzy, but the majority are vastly improved, and I'm a fan of the new colour grade on the whole, except... 

 

For the desaturated and blurry-at-the-edges look for flashbacks, as used in the Extended version of DoS for those kinda awful-looking flashbacks of Thrain. This look has been given to some LotR flashback scenes now, such as Faramir and Boromir in Osgiliath in TTT, which looked really weird having been used to the original for years.

 

The Hobbit, meanwhile, apart from a few entirely VFX shots where the low resolution is *really* noticeable, fares better - some of DoS and BotFA definitely seem more saturated (thank god!) than before, and I am almost certain some of the bloom is either gone or reduced in some scenes, and the VFX shots on the whole seem more natural somehow now.

 

However - a moment of silence for those dreadful, awful GoPro shots in the barrel chase, which look utterly dreadful now and stick out like extremely sore thumbs.

 

If anyone has any specific questions about how things look I will attempt to answer.

 

 

[Jay 37,301]

14 minutes ago, Bofur01 said:

For the desaturated and blurry-at-the-edges look for flashbacks, as used in the Extended version of DoS for those kinda awful-looking flashbacks of Thrain. This look has been given to some LotR flashback scenes now, such as Faramir and Boromir in Osgiliath in TTT, which looked really weird having been used to the original for years.

 

Ooh, that's a bummer

[Chen G. 3,944]

31 minutes ago, Bofur01 said:

Some of DoS and BotFA definitely seem more saturated (thank god!) than before, and I am almost certain some of the bloom is either gone or reduced

 

That was one of the things I was wondering: I think they went more than a little bit overboard with softening the HD look in the latter parts of The Desolation of Smaug and especially in The Battle of the Five Armies. Good to know.

 

Quote

If anyone has any specific questions about how things look I will attempt to answer.

 

So...that Arwen flashback in The Two Towers...does it give grounds to resend the film to the MPAA? I mean, Arwen's gown was looking pretty sheer back in DVD. Something to conceal from the eyes of little ones?

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Little ones? Hobbits?

[Bofur01 245]

22 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

So...that Arwen flashback in The Two Towers...does it give grounds to resend the film to the MPAA? I mean, Arwen's gown was looking pretty sheer back in DVD. Something to conceal from the eyes of little ones?

 

You and your sheer gown...

 

I don't think anything's more... prominent than before, Arwen's quite covered in that gown. Maybe when Arnie's topless scenes hit 4K the Hobbits should be protected from that extreme nipple detail!

[Monoverantus 363]

10 hours ago, crumbs said:

I really hope Peter is okay, he doesn't look too well in these clips.

Aww, he didn't even get to drink his cup of tea...  : (

[crumbs 14,304]

Glad to hear that obnoxious bloom has been toned down in the Hobbit sequels, it was overboard by the third film.

 

I've looked at the 'flashbacks' in TTT and really don't like the new colour grading there. Arwen's vision of Aragorn's funeral in TTT is particularly dull looking, borderline B&W. Much preferred the previous colour grading there.

 

Oh well. Overall the films look fantastic, if a little soft. And it sounds like the Hobbit films actually look filmic now, rather than a poorly downconverted (48>24FPS), smeary digital mess with a plastic sheen.

 

I have no idea what process they used to colour grade the prequels, but it felt more like a colour layer sitting on top of the image, rather than naturally embedded in the photography itself. Must be some weird issue when trying to stylise the 'window' effect that 3D/HFR intends; it can't actually embed stylised colour grading into the image very well (especially bloom, which makes no sense if you're doing 3D/HFR).

 

Wonder if Jackson regrets ever going down that path for the prequels, seeing as the HFR versions have dropped off the face of the planet.

[Bilbo 3,709]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:40 PM, Bofur01 said:

These have updated on iTunes, and I've had a brief flick through.

 

I think on the whole, these releases are definitely an improvement on what came before. LotR looks great (ignore the "photos of a screen" posted by certain reviewers online, their phone cameras really didn't give an accurate representation at all). Some shots do seem a bit smooth and fuzzy, but the majority are vastly improved, and I'm a fan of the new colour grade on the whole, except... 

 

For the desaturated and blurry-at-the-edges look for flashbacks, as used in the Extended version of DoS for those kinda awful-looking flashbacks of Thrain. This look has been given to some LotR flashback scenes now, such as Faramir and Boromir in Osgiliath in TTT, which looked really weird having been used to the original for years.

 

The Hobbit, meanwhile, apart from a few entirely VFX shots where the low resolution is *really* noticeable, fares better - some of DoS and BotFA definitely seem more saturated (thank god!) than before, and I am almost certain some of the bloom is either gone or reduced in some scenes, and the VFX shots on the whole seem more natural somehow now.

 

However - a moment of silence for those dreadful, awful GoPro shots in the barrel chase, which look utterly dreadful now and stick out like extremely sore thumbs.

 

If anyone has any specific questions about how things look I will attempt to answer.

 

 

I only have Fellowship (Extended) on iTunes but it definitely looks like green tint has been removed. 

[crocodile 7,984]

16 hours ago, crumbs said:

Glad to hear that obnoxious bloom has been toned down in the Hobbit sequels, it was overboard by the third film.

Yes, we remember.

 

 

Karol

[Jay 37,301]

Big words from Bill Hunt:

 

Quote

I’ve been reviewing Blu-ray and DVD quality professionally now for twenty-three years on The Digital Bits, and 4K Ultra HD quality for the last four of those years. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 4K remaster that made quite this much of a difference over a previous Blu-ray release before.

 

https://thedigitalbits.com/item/lord-of-the-rings-trilogy-2020-4k-uhd

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Good news!  Now we just wait and see what these 2021 sets really are I guess?

[crocodile 7,984]

Watched An Unexpected Journey last night. It does look good but the higher resolution the worst some of visual effects look.

 

Karol

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

On 12/3/2020 at 5:00 PM, Jay said:

Big words from Bill Hunt:

 

 

https://thedigitalbits.com/item/lord-of-the-rings-trilogy-2020-4k-uhd

 

Over at the Blu Ray forums he has been branded a paid shill liar and the 4k release has been torn apart limb to limb.

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Over at the Blu Ray forums he has been branded a paid shill liar and the 4k release has been torn apart limb to limb.

It’s like over here where people find problems with the music when looking at the waveforms rather than what they can hear. Over there’d they’re zooming in and judging a film on screenshots. 

[Quintus 5,399]

I was watching HDR scenes on YouTube yesterday, Forth Eorlingas in TTT has had a brown tint applied to it and to be honest I like it, for the most part. It makes sense that the sun's dawn rays now cast a golden beam through the embrasure rather than the cold bluish one of before, but it in the big outside shots there's something wrong or it's just YouTube's 4K compression causing what appears to be clipping of the very sandy colours seen on the long sloping path up to the Hornburg, appearing almost bleached out. I'd need to see this natively for confirmation. 

 

On the positive side, Gandalf rearing back on Shadowfax looks awesome, IMO, and you should immediately notice that in the following shots they appear to have digitally added McKellen's likeness to the Gandalf (CGI?) character atop his horse. Some might balk, but I think it looks terrific and lifelike, I see it as an improvement! 

[Alan 689]

6 hours ago, Bilbo said:

It’s like over here where people find problems with the music when looking at the waveforms rather than what they can hear. Over there’d they’re zooming in and judging a film on screenshots. 

 

8 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Over at the Blu Ray forums he has been branded a paid shill liar and the 4k release has been torn apart limb to limb.

 

It got so bad over at bluray.com that they locked the LOTR thread. I'm getting the discs for Christmas but my existing iTunes digital copies were upgraded to 4K Dolby Vision automatically. From what I've seen so far they look amazing. Fellowship in particular is a massive improvement over the theatrical and extended Blu-rays. TTT seems to be the problem child this time around with some fairly hefty DNR in a few shots. Mostly Rohan daytime exteriors for some reason. Still a great transfer though overall. Not seen much of ROTK but the arrival of the Rohirrim at Minas Tirith - wow. The increase in detail and the refined colours/contrast are stunning.

[Holko 9,499]

26 minutes ago, Alan said:

TTT seems to be the problem child this time around with some fairly hefty DNR in a few shots. Mostly Rohan daytime exteriors for some reason. Still a great transfer though overall.

I've seen comparisons and many of those same shots had the same smearing and DNR problems on the bluray. Since TTT was a crunch, made with the software and sensibilities of 2002, could it be that those are inherent in the finished source, the result of trying to visually unite, colour grade, possibly retime or partially replace (mountains, skies) footage shot between multiple units over 3 years? Maybe made worse by a new additional overall DNR pass?

[Chen G. 3,944]

Most of the reviews seem to attribute the most egregious DNR to The Fellowship of the Ring, not to The Two Towers.

[Alan 689]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

I've seen comparisons and many of those same shots had the same smearing and DNR problems on the bluray. Since TTT was a crunch, made with the software and sensibilities of 2002, could it be that those are inherent in the finished source, the result of trying to visually unite, colour grade, possibly retime or partially replace (mountains, skies) footage shot between multiple units over 3 years? Maybe made worse by a new additional overall DNR pass?

 

Yeah, TTT was also a little more "processed" looking than the others to me. A very early example of a film getting a start to finish DI. I have no reason to disbelieve the claims that the films have been re-built from a new 4K scan of the OCN for non-VFX shots but that seems to be one of the big debates that led to the locking of the thread at bluray.com. There's definitely plenty of additional detail on show but the issue is that SO much of TTT and ROTK especially involved some kind of digital manipulation, even if it wasn't obvious. Makes it very hard to know if what we see as DNR is TTT is new tampering, or aging digital work being revealed.

 

I really cannot wait to see these on disc though. Bit-starved iTunes streaming is no way to enjoy these films

[Holko 9,499]

This is the worst example I've seen:

 

http://www.imagebam.com/image/180f391362261057

[Alan 689]

11 minutes ago, Holko said:

This is the worst example I've seen:

 

http://www.imagebam.com/image/180f391362261057

 

Yeah, there's really no defending that is there? That's pretty ugly. That said, while watching the film and not pixel-peeping, I'm sure it will pass by quickly and not pull many people out of the moment.

[Jay 37,301]

2 minutes ago, Alan said:

That said, while watching the film and not pixel-peeping, I'm sure it will pass by quickly and not pull many people out of the moment.

 

Exactly this!  Of course one can grab random still frames online and claim PJ ruined everything but all that really matters is how much you enjoy the experience of sitting down and watching the film all the way through again.

[Quintus 5,399]

The Lord of the Rings: Facetune Edition 

[Jay 37,301]

YIKES.  They accidentally DNRed out the top of Gandalf's staff in this shot.

 

CLICK

[toothless 963]

19 hours ago, Holko said:

This is the worst example I've seen:

 

http://www.imagebam.com/image/180f391362261057

 

Wait till you see this one 

 

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8656

 

I don't know if it's true but it sure as hell is horrendous. Found this at blu-ray forum. Anyway, I bought the trilogy anyway  

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

4 minutes ago, toothless said:

 

Wait till you see this one 

 

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8656

 

I don't know if it's true but it sure as hell is horrendous. Found this at blu-ray forum. Anyway, I bought the trilogy anyway  

 

When the image looks this unclear I don't see the point of getting the 4K release.

[Holko 9,499]

8 minutes ago, toothless said:

 

Wait till you see this one 

 

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8656

 

I don't know if it's true but it sure as hell is horrendous. Found this at blu-ray forum. Anyway, I bought the trilogy anyway  

...oh wow

 

Also, generally it seems in comparisons that all movies have a green tint on the blu that was toned down, I thought only Fellowship EE had a blanket green tint?

[Chen G. 3,944]

Dunno, Fellowship is the only one where its noticable, and even in that one it wasn't as bad as some side-by-side comparisons make it out to be. The Blurays (like previous releases) generally had a very stylized colour palette, digital grading having been a new thing, it was easy to overuse.

 

The UHD presentation seem to lean more towards naturalistic colours, which I prefer.

[Faleel 5,340]

7 hours ago, toothless said:

 

Wait till you see this one 

 

https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/8656

 

I don't know if it's true but it sure as hell is horrendous. Found this at blu-ray forum. Anyway, I bought the trilogy anyway  

[jonwilliams 0]

On 12/7/2020 at 7:31 AM, Alan said:

I have no reason to disbelieve the claims that the films have been re-built from a new 4K scan of the OCN for non-VFX shots but that seems to be one of the big debates that led to the locking of the thread at bluray.com. 

I think people are disbelieving that it's a new 4k scan because neither WB or Peter Jackson claimed it was. It all started with an unverified statement by Bill Hunt that has since been repeated by every other reviewer, even when a lot of evidence seemingly points to the contrary. Then a few people on the forums started personally insulting each other when they disagreed over this (and whether the new versions looked better or worse than before) and the conversation was derailed. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

I'd get the old blus instead. Not that I'm getting them.

[crumbs 14,304]

There are definitely "problem shots" on the previous Bluray master that have been carried across to this 4K remaster, but smeared with excessive DNR to "hide" the imperfections.

 

For whatever reason, a LOT of the daytime scenes in Rohan have very noticeable streaking/motion blur issues. It's very obvious they couldn't find the original camera negatives for some shots, and thus had to use the existing HD master in places.

 

Maybe, if we're lucky, they'll be able to rectify some of those issues for the 2021 release. The DNR does seem excessive, given the bandwidth available on UHD discs.

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

There are definitely "problem shots" on the previous Bluray master that have been carried across to this 4K remaster, but smeared with excessive DNR to "hide" the imperfections.

 

For whatever reason, a LOT of the daytime scenes in Rohan have very noticeable streaking/motion blur issues. It's very obvious they couldn't find the original camera negatives for some shots, and thus had to use the existing HD master in places.

 

Maybe, if we're lucky, they'll be able to rectify some of those issues for the 2021 release. The DNR does seem excessive, given the bandwidth available on UHD discs.

I doubt the 2021 release will be anymore than a release of these discs with new packaging. They’re not going to do more work on these films so soon. 

[Chen G. 3,944]

I've seen some of the shots in the question and I'm not a fan - but they're still just a couple of shots; and certainly, nothing had been changed by way of content, which is good, AND we'll always have the original Blurays!

[KK 3,307]

So were these not as glorious as the Internet told me they would be?

[Chen G. 3,944]

The overall vibe is still enthusiastic. There are just a couple of scenes that’s been regraded in a way I don’t enjoy.

[Quintus 5,399]

Vincent has spoken:

 

 

[Chen G. 3,944]

Its here! Its here!

 

Been waiting for his video. So many nits! 

 

Quote

I will try to do similar analysis on The Two Towers and The Return of the King.

 

The answer is yes, Vincent!

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

Could they have done more?

[Holko 9,499]

Watched Fellowship TE. It looks incredible. The colours pop, the contrast is nice and noticeable, the grading is not as different to what I remember from the DVD as some comparisons show (hdr to nonhdr conversion I guess), it was always the best looking of the 3 in the first place... you just can't beat the harshly bright sunlight filtered through the forest canopy captured on film.