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Odds of a 4K UHD LOTR trilogy release?


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I'm still hoping that they dig the 2001 Cannes showreel out of the archives.

Yes, we remember.     Karol

Exactly this!  Of course one can grab random still frames online and claim PJ ruined everything but all that really matters is how much you enjoy the experience of sitting down and watching the film a

TTT TE: I always thought this one was the dullest looking, tan overall and less saturated. Well now I revoke that! Most of the worst faring shots are better in motion. My least favourite were Théoden and Legolas talking after the warg attack, that was smeary and jittery, and the Grey Company's (plus Théoden and Fakeomer) final shots, those were very soft and overdnred. But overall the vast majority looks great! I also like that they removed the blue tint from some of those shots, approaching Osgiliath and such, now it looks like the night is over and the sun is coming out soon instead of like just a slapped on blanket blue tint for the whole reel. Too bad about the Arwen flashforward but that passes quickly too. Most of Gollum's shots and even many of the MASSIVE Uruk army shots hold up really well.

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19 hours ago, Bilbo said:

I really want a 4K TV but I can’t justify one while renting and my parents sitting room is too small for one. You can’t get 32” 4K TV it seems!

 

That's because you wouldn't notice the difference between a 2K and 4K 32" TV!

 

However, you can play off a 4K blu on a 2K TV.

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On 12/15/2020 at 10:48 AM, Holko said:

 I also like that they removed the blue tint from some of those shots, approaching Osgiliath and such, now it looks like the night is over and the sun is coming out soon instead of like just a slapped on blanket blue tint for the whole reel.

I've long considered that short scene to be the ugliest of the entire trilogy.

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On the whole the films look pretty good. There are some bad shots but the majority of it is fine and fares much better than the recent SW release. But you can really tell a lot of the visual effects show their age though. Some of it is very noticeable. Truth be told, some of the shots looked bad back in the day too...

 

I really enjoyed re-watching after so many years. Decided to go through the six films in order. The LOTR trilogy is probably the closest thing we have to an old Hollywood epic. For all its minor shortcomings, it is a true classic and we haven't seen anything quite like this since.

 

Karol

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On 12/18/2020 at 3:55 PM, crocodile said:

On the whole the films look pretty good. There are some bad shots but the majority of it is fine and fares much better than the recent SW release. But you can really tell a lot of the visual effects show their age though. Some of it is very noticeable. Truth be told, some of the shots looked bad back in the day too...

 

I really enjoyed re-watching after so many years. Decided to go through the six films in order. The LOTR trilogy is probably the closest thing we have to an old Hollywood epic. For all its minor shortcomings, it is a true classic and we haven't seen anything quite like this since.

 

Karol

 

Guess I'll make the investment then.

 

I was replaying some of the LOTR appendices over the weekend. Damn these films were fucking massive.

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Ditto.

 

I think we can be pretty certain that they are deleted scenes (not re-inserted into the body of the films: as a separate disc or two). Jackson wanted to have that bonus feature back with the 1080p Blu-rays, so...

 

It will also include 1080p Blu-rays downsampled from this new master, which should come-in handy...

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2 hours ago, KK said:

Hard to think there's still stuff to see!

 

At some point during the cutting process, each of these six films was between 3.5-5 hours long. So yeah, there is stuff to see. And it ought to be in HD now...

 

They could also include previz scenes that were never shot. I'd be really interested to see the demo tape they used in pitching to New Line.

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10 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

If those things do come out, I hope they won't re-temp it with Shore's music: I'd be interested in hearing their original temp-track choices. Get ready to hear lots of Last of the Mohicans, Braveheart and Gladiator!


well the largest section of that reel WAS scored with Shore’s music (Moria) and I couldn’t really see them paying the licensing fees for the temp music. 

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5 minutes ago, KK said:

I have a feeling none of that is going to make it to this release.

 

I don't disagree with you. But one can hope!

 

2 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

well the largest section of that reel WAS scored with Shore’s music (Moria) and I couldn’t really see them paying the licensing fees for the music. 

 

It was basically a bit of the Shire, a montage of the adventure leading up to Moria, then an extended Moria setpiece, then another montage of events from the rest of the film and the following two. Everything other than Moria was temped with the above.

 

The actual previz and assemblies were scored mostly with earlier Howard Shore scores: the use of then-popular soundtracks was mostly in these "show" pieces, so as to appeal to studio heads and audiences.

 

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1 hour ago, KK said:

As cool as all of that would be, I have a feeling none of that is going to make it to this release.

Agreed. According to Bill Hunt over at Digital Bits, there will only be "one" new special feature on the release next year. Though it's not clear if that's one total or one per film. I'd be very suprised if they included deleted scenes. And I don't get the impression Jackson is big on deleted scenes. If he were, I imagine we already would have gotten them. I think he put what he wanted into the EE's.

 

Don't let the naysayers keep you from getting these discs. The films look stunning in HDR. No, they're not perfect, and there are some colour choices I would not have made, i.e. Jackson is clearly going for colour uniformity along the six films, and since the Hobbit films basically look the same in this set, that meant tinkering with LOTR. You mainly notice this in the LOTR flashbacks. There's also some unfortunate use of DNR, but on the whole the films look spectacular, and in a way it's like watching them for the first time.  FOTR by far looks the best, and mercifully, the green tint that plagued the Blu-Ray's is gone.

 

If you love these films, I think this set is a no-brainer.

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16 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I'd be very suprised if they included deleted scenes. And I don't get the impression Jackson is big on deleted scenes. If he were, I imagine we already would have gotten them. I think he put what he wanted into the EE's.

He talks about wanting to release a lot more stuff, especially deleted scenes down the line in the Appendices of the RotK EE.

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

He talks about wanting to release a lot more stuff, especially deleted scenes down the line in the Appendices of the RotK EE.

I know, he's said that for a while, and that he's saving it for the ultimate, super-deluxe, etc. set. I just don't think what we're getting next year is that. Priorities change.  I mean, I can't read his mind, but my impression is he's a peace with where Middle-Earth is, and it's clear his head is in a different space right now with the film restoration/documentaries he's doing. But perhaps some day....

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2 minutes ago, Holko said:

He talks about wanting to release a lot more stuff, especially deleted scenes down the line in the Appendices of the RotK EE.

 

Yea, but those interviews were shot almost 20 years ago. That was a much happier time and place for PJ, when he was basically king of Hollywood.

 

I don't know how invested he still is in getting all that material out there.

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3 minutes ago, KK said:

 

Yea, but those interviews were shot almost 20 years ago. That was a much happier time and place for PJ, when he was basically king of Hollywood.

 

I don't know how invested he still is in getting all that material out there.


When that silly boxset with the “fancy” wooden shelf came out a couple of years back he wanted to do all sorts of new extras but WB wouldn’t pay for it. 

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If we look at the Rohan smearing issues that were also on the bluray... it really doesn't look like they used the OCNs for LotR. And why would they have, most shots are altered in some way, even a simple grading is a ton of work to recreate from scratch when it changes from shot to shot to unify all the different material over years. So... who knows. But either way I'd take waiting a year over having/wanting to buy it twice.

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6 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

That’s where the evidence is pointing, so...

 

What evidence?

 

Bill Hunt's contacts in the industry have proven to be pretty reliable, and here's what he says about the subject:

 

Quote

Now then… Warner has also announced plans to release both 4K sets together in one more deluxe package next summer. That set is expected to include the same 4K movie discs coming on 12/1, with the same Hobbit Blu-rays already available (the movies only, not the extras), and newly-produced Lord of the Rings Blu-rays upgraded with better image quality from this new 4K remaster (those remastered Lord of the Rings Blu-rays will also be available separately next year, in honor of the 20th anniversary of The Fellowship of the Ring). That package too will include Digital Copies, but it will NOT include The Appendices or any of the other previous extras (with the likely exception of the audio commentaries on the regular Blu-rays). We’re told that it will, however, include ONE new piece of bonus content that’s still yet to be determined. And that package is likely to include deluxe packaging and swag items too (possibly a book of some kind, artwork cards, and maybe replicas of the One Ring and the Key to Erebor).

 

Now, his info could be bad, but he's not just speculating.  My guess is we'll get some kind of retrospective, but that's just me speculating. Don't get me wrong, I'd love deleted scenes, but I'd be very surprised if that happend this time around.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

If we look at the Rohan smearing issues that were also on the bluray... it really doesn't look like they used the OCNs for LotR. And why would they have, most shots are altered in some way, even a simple grading is a ton of work to recreate from scratch when it changes from shot to shot to unify all the different material over years. So... who knows. But either way I'd take waiting a year over having/wanting to buy it twice.


Yeah, having looked at as many screenshots I could find on the internet, I don’t think there’s any way that the films were actually rescanned from the OCNs, there’s less visible detail here than on the Blu Rays.

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There must be a solid hour of deleted or extended scenes for each film! I really hope it turns up in the next box set.

 

I could do without much extra footage from the Hobbit films except an extended ending for BOTFA, which is far too rushed. They didn't even show a return to the troll cave to collect their buried treasure (as established in AUJ), despite Bilbo having the chest in the final scenes!

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But barely any of that is deleted scenes, it's mostly deleted lines, alternate sequences, alternate lines, or even unused shots... They're not just going to dump all the rushes on a disc, there is no way the vast majority of these things would ever be seen, because they were never meant to be. I think that list would be wayyyyyyy shorter if it were talking about things likely to be released. Even stuff people are excited about, like Gil-galad vs Sauron, was probably only going to be 3 shots and 3 seconds long, or similar..

 

(But yes, it would be very cool) 

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Because these are only the things confirmed or semi-confirmed to have been shot. It's even missing things like the epilogue of Legolas and Gimli briefly shown in the Appendices when PJ talks about wanting to release deleted stuff. Who knows what entire sequences were shot but dropped before they could make it into calendars and teasers? Or how long the scenes actually were?

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I've been looking at the 1080p blu-rays of these films again, and bar the unfortunate green tint of the first film, I think I prefer the look of these over the samples of the 4K remaster I've seen. I was watching Forth Eorlingas again (in TTT), and the film grain just makes the whole thing feel more authentic and alive to my eye, and that's just one highlight. But more importantly (to me), I think the digital effects simply hold up better at 1920x1080 than they do at 3840x2160. In 4K, the vast armies look like little toy figures, with their own little high fidelity path finding and physics routines - thus making those originally amazing shots much less convincing and more unnatural now than they were previously. In the older blu-rays though, the lower (though still very fine resolution) helps considerably to mask the flaws in the aged 'Massive' software that powered, quite spectacularly, the battle sequences in the trilogy. In 1080p, the CG seams are lost in the melee much more than what is perceptible in the uncannily sharp clarity provided by 4k, and for me this is a signifiant downside which works against these films as timeless cinematic epics. I'll probably not purchase.

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The 4K shouldn't technically make the effects hold-up any worse, because those shots are the same - just upscaled to 4K. If they rescanned the live-action elements in 4K and then re-added the same 2K effects, then this would have been a concern.

 

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3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The 4K shouldn't technically make the effects hold-up any worse, because those shots are the same - just upscaled to 4K. If they rescanned the live-action elements in 4K and then re-added the same 2K effects, then this would have been a concern.

 


But if there’s been edge enhancement on the upscale, it can result in things standing out which didn’t before.

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